I'm at a point in my life where starting a family is overdue, this could be my last chance for a handbuilt frame. It's still unlikely but i've been looking at hand made frames from ted james, btr, starling, shand etc and was wondering if you were going to do it, what would you go for?
*Checks winning lottery ticket*
*Begins spending*
Ti longish travel hardtail. For big days in the hills, with a focus on smiles AND miles
Ti fast gravel bike. Taking up to a 38ish tyre, nothing more. Full guard mounts, nicely relaxed, but fast handling.
Ti road bike. Discs, sleek and sexy internal cable routing, with some medium depth blingorama crabon fribe rims.
Steel rigid 650b+ as a grab and go local trail basher.
Steel fat tyre hybrid thingy. Probably with an Alfine, definitely with mudguards, and a rack. Proper family ride picnic truck.
Oh, and nice Ti MTB tandem. Nothing to gnar, just a nice thing to ride around.
Builders? Hmm. Would pick and choose. However, having seen his first efforts while we were at uni, Rob Mather would be getting to build some, or all, of the steel.
Top of the pile would probably be a Steve Potts, but a Black Cat and a 44 Bikes would certainly do as well. A new FAT Chance would also need to be figured in somehow too.
I'd get Brant at Pact Bikes to supply a Ti B+/29er hardtail for bikepacking and using round the local forests and hills.
Oh - I already did.
http://www.provacycles.com/bikes/
One of these cos he's a top lad that likes to ride bikes the same way that I do
If you mean bespoke......Indy Fab work in steel, ti and carbon, road and offload; if off-road - rigid or front sus, ss or geared, frame only or full build, they will liaise with Enve or Whiskey for forks, paint jobs to die for; the only minor drawback is they've stopped doing their sterling silver head badge.
In the UK, Ricky Feather near York but with his lead time you might have started a family before he starts on your frame! He uses York Cycleworks for fit/ measurements/geometry; they've got a sooper dooper bike fit set-up from Trek.
Field Cycles in Sheffield; their paint partner is great - I'll be using them for an Indy Fab renovation.
Old skool would be Dave Yates.
I guess it depends on your budget, what use you'll get from it, it's resale value - if that time ever comes, will it be just too pretty to ride......
Recumbent, hand cycle, tricycle?
Shand. I saw one on tons touring weekend and it was a thing of beauty
http://www.provacycles.com/bikes/
Aren't they just mmmmmmm.......
For something a bit different John 'Shaggy' Ross in Bristol is now building bikes.
He's a top lad flashy
A proper engineer as well, he came over here worked for land rover I think, raced a bit of enduro with us idiots and nonchalantly went home and started that
Fairly play
Trike, Longstaff stylee.
An 853 disc version of the Spa Tourer, no brake bosses, 50mm tyre clearance.
In green.
Soul 26 geo, in Easton Ultralight alloy, bigger tyre clearance.
A sidecar.
Nice and simple looking ti 29+ with pinion gearbox with option to take rigid carbon or suspension forks and a dropper post. It would look great, that's reason enough for me.
Make your own at the Bike Academy? - Learning from Ted James, Paul Burford (BTR) or Robin Mather.
I muddle through making my own frames which is very satisfying but slightly shonky. The builders / people I [i]really[/i] admire would include:-
Julie Racing Design (unique / innovative / beautifully made / does his own paint)
Chris Herting / 3D Racing (Mr Yeti - his B29er is fab)
Cromaworks for paint (part of the Field collective)
Black Cat (Bi-laminate lugs, curved butted tubes, short stays and amazing paint)
Vertigo Cycles (Ti - also part of the driving force that made 44mm head tubes happen)
I like the look of some of the Shands but for me it would be a painted BTR sans headtube badge. Not sure whether it would be the Ranger or the Chaser though.
Got a deposit down on a Starling...6 month waiting list. Finished frame should coincide with the start of the snow melt in Calgary (moving over in the next month or two).
While final details haven't been firmed up i'm going for 140mm front and back with a 65/66 headangle.
Would love custom Ti 29+ rigid with a gearbox or rolhoff...one day...maybe.
Thanks for the mention Frank. Sadly too busy with my day job at the moment to get much done. Output should improve once I move house.
There are so many good options these days. For a custom bike, you are often buying in to the builders ideas and vision as much as the quality of the build. Just to add more names to the mix, other than the previously mentioned; Rick Hunter and Retrotec would be near the top of my dream list (although I do have one Hunter already).
I'd totally recommend The Bicycle Academy if you would be interested in building the frame yourself. You'll be amazed how much you will learn.
Titchmarsh ss 29er
What's handmade?
Do you mean custom?
I'd have a rigid Ti 29er from Steve Potts with a Type 2 fork and a hardtail Curtis of some description just for the raw finish with the brazing on show.
I went with Ted James as he's very local to me which meant I could pop in with my doodles and talk things through, plus he knows the trails I like to ride. His range of builds is vast. I stared writing a thread about it, I should get it posted.
What's handmade?
At a guess, the design and then machining of parts like: headtubes, BB shell, dropouts, cable routing etc, one off parts for custom builds. Creating new designs and building them into bike parts / component s. See TJD, Demon etc
Shand, Varu, Donhou....just for starters
I've always dreamt of a Vanilla Speedvagen SSCX 😈
I'd like Demon Frameworks to make me a modern ti road frame based roughly around my Allez as that seems to fit me nicely.
Not lots of lugs, clean lines, disks, wireless groupset, etc.
And a nice Baum? Not sure why, I really don't enjoy road riding 🙂
At a guess, the design and then machining of parts like: headtubes, BB shell, dropouts, cable routing etc, one off parts for custom builds.
Not many framebuilders machine their own dropouts - I get them laser cut for specific jobs like Bromptons, but the range from Ceeway, Paragon etc is so good there's no need usually. Same with BB shells, head tubes etc.
Ti - Firefly are top of my list with Potts, Vertigo and Mosaic runners up. They're all US so to bring it Euro; Mawis.
Steel - saffron, TJD, Field and Titchmarsh just for starters. Demon, for the obsessive detail.
Carbon - Filament/Craddock
I work for Bespoked so get up close with lots of bikes and the builders, I suggest getting along and meet the makers, that's a big deal I think.
I do have a Ted James 853 cx/monster, why? Well he's my friend and he machines all the parts. That and he's a handsome rider. I do have a fancy paint job too, but it's under the paint that counts in my book. The bike is ace and at the time you couldn't find many drop bar frames to take a 2.0 tyre.
Here's mine
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Ben - no I guess not, but seeing via Instagram the work TJD put into an ESB for Billy @ Armourtex, there are people out there doing it.
Here's just one piece of the bicycle jigsaw:
There are, but often I think it's so they say they do, rather than for any engineering reason 😉
And that's the whole conundrum of custom, why? = just because.... 🙂
Yup, and I guess this is the difference with my framebuilding, everything I do has an engineering purpose. Which I guess is why I don't get invited to Bespoked 😀
I think you should just gate crash it 😉
I think you apply for bespoked Ben, No one gets an invite! There is a lot of 'art' on custom bikes out there for sure. And I know paint can hide things...
Pact bikes for a gnarr light backpacking do it all with chubbedlite wheels.
Tang - I'm working on a pair of [i]bespoke[/i] boards for LoveCrossed, I think you'll like 'em.
I remember there was a thread on mtbr about a guy getting his Potts rigid 29er (think it went on to win a prize at the US hand built bike thingy) and if money and time were no object I'd want a Potts.
I did have fleeting discussions with Pact about a B+ build but found that the Stanton Sherpa was pretty much the size and geo I would've gone for so chickened out and got one of those, as it was <1/2 the cost.
I'd not rule out that option in the future as my recent bikepacking adventure has played havoc with the Solaris paint job.... I can wait until the pound exchange rate is more favourable though 😆
A black sheep fat bike, an oddity 29+ with squid fork and a mone klunker
I would put the money towards a decent guy welder and build my own.
Barty p should be in the running?
I've got plans for a custom drop-bar off-road bike. But they're secret 😉
Taz did you see Ted James' ti four leg fork with in house thru axle? Sweet. Oddity are bonkers!
Another person in the starling build queue. Getting him to bulld me a really slack 29er fs. Why? Because I can get exactly what I want
+1 for Starling 🙂
I would get a 29+ hardtail built for me by Sam at Naked Bicycles. He's a top bloke and the bikes are just lovely.
www.nakedbicycles.com
If I were flush I'd consider a custom full sus mid travel 29er, as there literally isn't a production bike with the geometry I'd like.
Ideally it'd be carbon and 4-bar, though something like a Starling is probably more realistic.
Wouldn't say no to a 29in ti hardtail with a long front centre and low seat tube, but I could just buy a honzo ti instead.
Wouldn't say no to a 29in ti hardtail with a long front centre and low seat tube, but I could just buy a honzo ti instead.
pact Battlecat full custom £1500.
https://mobile.twitter.com/pactbikes/status/659127822921936896
What tang posted a bit higher up probably but a bit more understated.
Retrotec
I find it hard to believe any of the above give anything at all other than some weird sense of personal pride and wall pi55ing ability.
I'd buy a decent specialized/Santa Cruz / whatever and be more than happy.
Its still just a bike.
[quote=weeksy ]I find it hard to believe any of the above give anything at all other than some weird sense of personal pride and wall pi55ing ability.
I'd buy a decent specialized/Santa Cruz / whatever and be more than happy.
Its still just a bike.
Depends very much on whether you can find something off-the-peg with the geometry and "features" that you want. Even things like cable routing, bottle cage mounts, rack mounts etc all have a part to play in my decision-making process. Having said that, all my requirements are functional ones. I'm not interested in stuff like fancy paint schemes and twiddly lugs. Mind you, I also think that a watch is for finding out the time and isn't a piece of jewellery so I'm likely not the demographic many of the frame builders are chasing.
Is everything you purchase purely functional though? No concessions to aesthetics or craftsmanship or provenance?
I've been contemplating a custom made frame, as there doesn't appear to be much off the peg stuff out there that suits my needs (see my first thread on this forum about it). Having made some enquiries/done a bit of research, I'm left with the conclusion that a bespoke frame wouldn't really offer anything over something from a mainstream manufacturer, other than some mythical 'uniqueness', and would cost a hell of a lot more, with no genuine benefit. Certainly nothing that would 'justify' the cost of a bespoke frame. Indeed, given the R+D capabilities of some of the big manufacturers, and their experience in designing and building bikes, plus the extremely good manufacturing processes being used these days, a mainstream mass produced frame might even be [i]better[/i] than a bespoke one!
But that's not the point, I know. A fully custom made one-off unique frame is something special. I certainly appreciate that. It's getting exactly what you want, that seems to be the hard bit. I went to a Bespoked bike show a few years ago, and spoke to a number of frame builders. They ranged from 'I can build you anything you want, and you can have my first born too!', to 'you will get what I tell you you can have, and you will wait 6 years for it, and you will be grateful'. Bespoked is very good in this regard, it's an opportunity to learn which [i]builders[/i] suit you, regardless of their products. There's definitely a couple I'd never waste my time with. But there's also lots of really nice people doing great things with metal tubes, and it would be a pleasure to engage with them in the design and build of a bicycle.
Having seen the bike I thought I wanted become no longer available, I'm revisiting the idea of a custom made frame. Seems there's a growing choice out there. Would be nice to see some quirky/unusual bikes that people on this forum have had made.
I would probably be asking 18 Bikes to make me a hardtail with Pinion gearbox and belt drive. Or maybe Olsen Bikes as they are more local but I'm not so sure about their designs
"Depends very much on whether you can find something off-the-peg with the geometry and "features" that you want. Even things like cable routing, bottle cage mounts, rack mounts etc all have a part to play in my decision-making process. Having said that, all my requirements are functional ones. I'm not interested in stuff like fancy paint schemes and twiddly lugs. Mind you, I also think that a watch is for finding out the time and isn't a piece of jewellery so I'm likely not the demographic many of the frame builders are chasing."
Talk of 'geometry' is mostly waffle, unless you have an unusually proportioned body/particular physical issue that requires 'custom geometry'. Or you're just weird and want a really slack angled road bike or very long chainstays, or some daft gearbox+Rohloff+beltdrive nonsense or something. Any decent frame builder will advise on making something within certain limits; a lot of people 'think' they know best, but the truth is, bicycle frame design has pretty much been done, and the best geometry/angles/dimensions have been well sorted now. Things like saddle angle/layback, handlebar width, stem length, tyre choice etc has far more influence on how a bike fits and rides than 'geometry', for the vast majority of people.
So it really is down to having something a bit 'unique', and 'different'. Not a great deal more really.
Watches? If you want accurate tme on your wrist, get a £10 Casio. 😉
Road race bikes yes, anything else, not imo. eg why are MTBs still changing steadily?bicycle frame design has pretty much been done, and the best geometry/angles/dimensions have been well sorted now.
Respectfully couldn't disagree more from my own experience.Things like saddle angle/layback, handlebar width, stem length, tyre choice etc has far more influence on how a bike fits and rides than 'geometry', for the vast majority of people.
Custom can just mean the right tubeset and be nothing to do with geometry.
If geometry was all sorted out, I'd expect to find more than one FS 29er that fit me right. I've got short legs but I'm not that much of a freak!
"eg why are MTBs still changing steadily?"
Steadily, but not radically. My current MTBs are a bit slacker and better suited to their purpose than my first one, but the design hasn't changed fundamentally.
"Custom can just mean the right tubeset and be nothing to do with geometry."
How much genuinely noticeable difference does this actually make, to the real world performance of the bicycle? If two frames from different tube sets were made to look identical, and built up with identical components, how many people would actually notice the difference?
Custom can just mean the right tubeset and be nothing to do with geometry.
Or tyre clearance....
Jay Petervary had Salsa build him a custom Ti El Mariachi with a larger frame triangle so he could fit a larger frame bag.
My Pact has a higher-than-average BB so the saddle is higher and I can fit a decent sized saddle bag.
Some folk find that standard headtubes are a bit short for fitting bar bags without having a stack of spacers.
If I was doing another hardtail, it'd be a custom titanium loosely based on my anglesetted trailfox. Compensate it for a bit less fork, add a dab of reach and get the TT down a bit lower, maybe replacable dropouts so I can do bloody stupid boost when that becomes unavoidable, tyre clearance for a 2.5 in the back, stealth routing but everything else external, and a proper BB... And make sure they know I want something that rides soft, more like my Soda than my Ragley Ti. Simple aesthetics, just a couple of triangles, and room and strength for a 170mm reverb. And that's pretty much it, nothing very clever but I don't think you can get close to what I really want off the peg.
The one bike i return to for everything for winter commuting, to bike packing to most of my off road riding, is my mk1 Salsa Fargo.
But the Fargo is a bit of a weighty beast and i think if the money was there i would something similar, a drop bar bike capable of taking up to 2.4 tyres with bottle cage mounts below down tube and on forks for mounting kit, if money was no option it would be in 931 steel just because i'd use it a lot and the raw finish would make me smile.....
Oh, and a road bike from Donhou.
Jameso is referring to a tubeset matched to the rider and end use of the bike.
I weigh 63kg. Why should I drag round a bike that can pass fatigue tests for someone almost twice my weight?
I built my son's bike. Stock answer on here for a kid's 26er is a 14" inbred. Even with a basic cheap tubeset (just one butted tube), it still came in over 1lb lighter than the inbred frame. I'm making another now for a friend's daughter that will be lighter still.
Then throw in increasing 2017 frames having stuff I just don't want - integrated headsets, boost, press fit bb etc.
Custom simply isn't just about deciding where to have the bottle cage.
Also worth noting that your custom builders And little niche companies are the guys that sorted long fork offsets, 29ers 650b+ fat bikes etc....way before the mainstream even thought about it. The custom frame world is like the primordial swamp of bikes, if it works And evolves enough then the big boys take notice and it becomes more mainstream, if not it grow some extra appendages, fails to breed and dies quietly in a corner of forgotten niche tat.
Clodhopper, I'd say MTB design has changed in the last 5-6 years enough to show how custom geometry is of value. A couple of degrees, 25mm reach or similar changes from industry averages, enough to make a difference to some. Maybe not others. I've ridden a number of bikes that had same geo but different tubes, or v-v, and felt the difference was of interest or value. Not everyone will, not everyone will value a custom bike.
Mick's point on weight also, at 75kg I could still have a safe custom frame that doesn't meet all ISO specs. I had a cool road bike with a super low BB, can't sell the design as a production spec due to ISO regs but I could get it made to a high level as a one off.
As for the op q, I'd have a fillet brazed steel custom from someone who made bikes really well in the type/style I like. So a Shand, most likely. It'd be a keeper so brazed in case I ever wanted a dinged tube replaced.
Cherubim road bike
TJD rigid 29er
Shand Stooshie - winter road bike / commuter / gravel
Always fancied a titanium hardtail, so would probably get Brant at Pact to replicate (a few minor mods) my Singular Swift in Ti (in the absence of a Singular Pegasus).
6'5" - so have thought of going custom.
Here's what I had done.
http://www.saffronframeworks.com/build/stevens-elegant-29er/
Why is difficult. Main reason is because I wanted something no one else had. Fit is another. I've short legs but long body and lie right on the cusp of medium and large in most brands. Either size for me is often a compromise in some respect. An afternoon long bike fit and lots of questioning from Matthew the builder, resulted in a bike that felt perfect front the moment I turned the pedals for the first time. Also, the frame tubes were chosen for my weight and riding style, so it still has that springy steel feel but without being too overly stiff. The top tube is also 853 to cope with the extra strain of the lefty. These things are only possible by going custom. It's like the difference between a bespoke suit and having an off the peg suit altered to fit you. Both will fit you, but only one is truly made just for you.
clubby - that's lovely. A pal just had this one made this year
http://www.saffronframeworks.com/build/dannys-classic-bi-laminate
Ti Stooge 27.5 plus on order 10 weeks grrrrrrrrrrr!
My custom starling cost significantly less than an off the shelf Santa Cruz even after a pretty good build
"Jameso is referring to a tubeset matched to the rider and end use of the bike.I weigh 63kg. Why should I drag round a bike that can pass fatigue tests for someone almost twice my weight?"
I totally get stuff like that. Of course it's nice to have something better 'matched' to you. I'm just open minded about the 'benefits' v the extra expense; there's a point where it surely isn't justifiable beyond:
"Main reason is because I wanted something no one else had."
Which is also absolutely fine.
"I built my son's bike. Stock answer on here for a kid's 26er is a 14" inbred. Even with a basic cheap tubeset (just one butted tube), it still came in over 1lb lighter than the inbred frame. I'm making another now for a friend's daughter that will be lighter still."
TBH, you could build it from scaffolding poles and it would be lighter than an On-One. 😆
"Custom simply isn't just about deciding where to have the bottle cage."
Of course. I'm quite glad the bike I had been contemplating buying, is no longer available (at the heavily discounted price). TBH it wasn't really 'right' for me; it's a cyclocross bike with rack mounts, and what I actually want is something a bit different to that. Hence why a custom built frame may be my best option.
But if a mainstream manufacturer comes up with something that closely matches my requirements, I'll buy that instead. I simply don't 'need' something no-ne else has'.
Custom Nicolai ION Geometron...............again.
I'd like to phone Nicolai up and order a custom geometron with a 68 degree head angle, 430mm of reach and and 1160mm wheelbase, just to see what they'd say.
But a nice, custom steel frame can still be had for sensible money, comparable to the frame only prices of many of the the big brands.
We're all a little vain.
A custom frame must be a lovely thing to spec and own.
If I was ever to spend a couple of grand on a nice, light road bike, I'd go for it like a flash.
A custom, steel, built for you classic or a compromised otp bike for the same cash?
Daft not to.
i did. 12 years ago. looking a bit more battered now.
Still my main mtb and a great ride - even with the dated geometry. Although I'm probably going to go full sus 29er in the next few months but there's no way I am selling the Mather. It will be able to do stuff that the new bike probably won't. At the time it was an itch i needed to scratch and i've had some great rides and adventures on this bike.
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/127/389551860_a83b3c7cb9_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/127/389551860_a83b3c7cb9_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Aqyco ]fine bike[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/evilgoat/ ]Evil Goat[/url], on Flickr
TBH it wasn't really 'right' for me; it's a cyclocross bike with rack mounts, and what I actually want is something a bit different to that.
That is actually a really good example. A lot of the mainstream "gravel" frames are being sold as jack of all trades (CX, commute, tour etc), when given the choice I'd decide which job you really want it to excel at. Rack and panniers really needs a longer back end for heel clearance, and a fairly sturdy build or the load just wags the bike in a rather alarming way.
My wife's dedicated CX frame is the exact opposite - super short rear end, fairly burly chainstays and downtube, but very slender elsewhere (skinny 12mm stays plus skinny seat tube, top tube and seatpost). For bumpy CX racing this works really well, but attaching a rack would be a wobbly disaster.
"That is actually a really good example. A lot of the mainstream "gravel" frames are being sold as jack of all trades (CX, commute, tour etc), when given the choice I'd decide which job you really want it to excel at. "
The 'gravel' bike should be something that is ideal, but fashion dominates, and they are made to be a bit 'racy', whilst sacrificing usefulness. Indeed, image/fashion are often quite detrimental to bike design, imo, as the vast majority of cyclists won't be racing, so why not leave it for those who do, to have to get custom frames made? I remember when all mtbs had rack and mudguard mounts, and you could race on the same machine people went up Kilimanjaro on. I accept 'because optimisation', but the genuinely useful type of bike has become a rare thing.
but the genuinely useful type of bike has become a rare thing.
I see the opposite,there are some really good options for more 'do it all' bikes from main brands and frame builders now.
It just depends how much the rider wants to adapt to the different terrain.I also think that the 29er and monstercross stuff has added to what more people have in mind ,as they look for the perfect (for them ) bike.
Fat Chance Yo Eddy 2.1 29er. (now I spotted they exist again... 🙂 )
So then, what can I sell...