Hi guys,
I'm going to be honest I've been a fool and I've made several mistakes in the process of buying a bike.
I won't mention names or particulars for now but I've effectively been mugged off!
Here's the deal. I agreed to pay close to 3k for a carbon nomad. It's a 2012 model and it's a lot of money but I've wanted one for ages and I will be selling my stump jumper to pay for some of it.
When I asked for a clear description of all the marks on the frame, the guy said "no marks, the bike is pretty much new". Foolishly, I believed him and didn't ask for photographic evidence (although I had seen some of the bike as a whole).
When the bike arrived, I opened the box and to my utter disbelief there was no bubble wrap or cardboard packing or anything. It had been taken apart to the frame, forks, wheels and bars and shoved in the box! The only sign of packing materials was some cling film on the rear dropouts and some more holding the headset in. Obviously, the bike had lots of scratches and marks front rubbing and banging about in transit. But it also had cable rub and chain slap, as well as marks from some poorly placed cable ties, that must surely have been there before the frame was sent. The seller had obviously chosen not to tell me about the marks when I asked.
Bottom line is, I'm gutted with the condition of the bike. There's marks on the fork stantions, frame, bars, wheels etc. And it's by no means "pretty much new". The only thing the guy can say to me is I should have paid extra for postal insurance which would cover the damage. I have tried to explain that even if I had paid the extra (which I should have done), the post company would not be liable for the damage because it was poorly packed in the first place!! He also said that I cannot return the bike to him because it's not in the condition he sent it in!
On top of this the brakes need bleeding desperately, gears need a tune up, tyres need some sealant and it needs a new bottom bracket.
Anyway, my biggest mistake was paying by bank transfer. I'm livid and frustrated and want to know if there is anything I can do?!
Please help. (and try not to make me feel worse by telling me how stupid I've been!)
Cheers
Small Claims - it's not met the description.
As above is prob your only option. Just make sure you have copies of all the emails etc
Oh matey... this sort of thing makes me sigh. £3k? Would you buy a £3k car without inspecting it and driving it first?
Small claims and/or go and see him with his crappy bike in tow.
£3k?
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Irrespective of the lunacy of your actions it is the sellers responsibility to make sure its as described and delivered that way.
If bought off here its actually in the for sale terms and conditions iirc. May also be on ebay too.
For 3k it would be worth driving it back.to the seller even if you're in Cornwall and they are in Dumfries. If not solicitors letter and then small claims. I would say do not use or do anything to it. I would expect that could weaken your position.
I know guys, but the bike was the opposite end of the country and I was desperate to get hold of it. It's silly but I got over excited and put my trust in someone I clearly shouldn't have done being clouded by my lust for the bike!
Never had a problem on the tens of things I've bought on pay pal, and the one I buy on bank transfer and the guy is a moron. So gutted. Cheers for the advice.
Where in the country, can the STW [s]witch hunt[/s] crowd peer pressure be of assistance?
Symapthetic in some ways
Amazed in others
Did you get photos as it came out of the box?
Do you have copies of the description printed out....
Pictures of it in it's current condition would help?
Do you want a hand ? im sure some guys on here would help out ?
Its not got orange bits on it perchance?
Hi rorscharch, no it's black and blue.
And cheers for your help guys. I've phoned a mate who is a solicitor and has agreed to help. I've downloaded the necessary forms and I'll go from there, although I can't say I'm particularly optimistic.
I don't want to give away the guys name or details because it might hinder my claim.
Genuinely thanks for the advice people- I didn't even know you could make small claims so that's been helpful!
Definitely lesson learnt. To be honest if the worst comes to worst I've got a great bike- just not in the condition I was expecting.
Thanks
Stw'er in restrained posting shocker!!
I honestly wouldn't pay £3k for a bike is never seen in person!
Let us know how you get on.. And once it's done name and shame!
First of all I feel for you but I think your stuck. Here is a idea. Take the bike to your local dealer and explain to them you have this bike and want to buy a new bike from them. They will evaluate the current value plus future value (fixing dings, painting etc. ) and maybe give you a deal. Remember they have connections with mfg reps etc. They should recognize it is high end and give you the respect you deserve.
Just my 2 cents.
He also said that I cannot return the bike to him because it's not in the condition he sent it in!
Not sure on the laws around this, but if this was a shop you'd be well within your rights to return. Not sure if it's the same for private sales.
If the original advert described the bike as 'like new' then it isn't as advertised, you can follow that route, postage and any damage caused is normally the responsibility of the seller
The rights of a buyer in relation to goods damaged in transit will largely depend upon what was agreed at the time when the contract was agreed.
Where goods are damaged by a third party, for example by the Royal Mail, the seller is normally liable for the damage.
Get rid of it. Those things are old hat anyway.
First of all I feel for you but I think your stuck. Here is a idea. Take the bike to your local dealer and explain to them you have this bike and want to buy a new bike from them
And if they'll entertain it (we wouldn't) they'll give a really crap price.
Small claims.
Like you say we can all make mistakes.We have all propably done this at some time.Two things to do when you are buying something never get desperate or to excited.There will always be another bike to come.
I did it when i was 17 brought a DT175 which i did see.Which was a bloody nightmare had to rewire it with the help of my dad plus plenty of other things.Got the bike great in the end but was frustrating to say the least.
From that day onwards have calm down.Best of luck hope you get it sorted.
i would check the serial number and make sure its not stolen too.
I've had a similar problem with a car purchase.
Send him a letter by recorded delivery stating what you intend to do. (Small claims - goods not as described).
The fact it's recorded will let him know you're serious and hopefully get a reaction. If not proceed with small claims, it's all pretty simple and you can read about your rights online.
Well, you've not helped yourself, but it sounds like the guy in question is a bit of a bugger. Out of order for not being up front about it.
3k sight unseen? Ooof!
Nothing else to add really, as I'm sure you are already kicking yourself, so good luck with getting the situation resolved.
Regarding the postage, not your problem.
Its his responsibility to get the bike to you safely, its a total con when buyers ask you to pay extra for insured postage as they have the contract for the safe delivery of the item. (assuming they had packed it properly - personally I wouldn't pursue this, let him believe he can claim from the courier for damage as it will increase your chances of a refund) Even if it had been insured, the courier wouldn't deal with you as you didn't arrange the postage.
The only time its worth a buyer paying extra over the standard postage is if it means you get it faster.
On something that expensive I would have had it out of the box on the doorstep then refused to accept it and sent it back and contacted the bank and said you had been duped. They would have got the fraud squad on the case.
was it off here?
Fix it up and enjoy the ride. You probably will waste time money and stress getting nowhere if you try and get your money back
As above, if its a good spec bike it's still gonna ride awesome, and just hope karma comes and bites the guy who sold you the bike in the ass
Small claims route is jyst going to be a ball ache, i know because ive done it and won, but i prob wouldnt bother again.
It sounds like the damage is mostly cosmetic,so fix the broken bits ad ride it. If it were in brand new condition, it woukdnt stay that way for long if youre riding it like it was meant to be ridden.
You still got it for far less that a new complete bike would have cost, just put this one down to experience and ride it and have fun
i would check the serial number and make sure its not stolen too.
Normally I'm not one to jump to conclusions.
But in this case I can't help thinking the same.
Who would pack such an expensive bit of kit without any protection at all if they had paid out their own cash for it in the first place.
They would surely pack it properly as they would appreciate its value having paid for it in the first place.
I'm with bigjohn, get the bike sorted and ride it. Going down the legal route might make a sorry situation worse. As said you'll still have an awsome bike.
Please help. (and try not to make me feel worse by telling me how stupid I've been!)
You know the saying about a fool and his money. Sorry OP but judging by your forum history (Not usually one to stalk a members forum history but I wanted to see if you bought the bike off here) basically all you've done in the 4 weeks you've been on the site is either offer to sell or buy lots of very high end kit with no other contribution.
Which is fine of course but either you're a very well off 21 year old with multiple carbon fibre superbikes and the means to throw money around buying even more bikes and bits. Or something else.
Puts my grumbles at a knackered BB in perspective.
I can't see how small claims can make things worse unless it costs a fortune or takes hours to arrange.
Feel for you - easy mistake anyone could make caught up thinking that something you REALLY want is a bargain 🙁
cynic-al - Member
Small Claims - it's not met the description.
This. Get on with it.
Try and enjoy it .i'm sure if he got a letter about you taking him to small claims, and he was a bit dodgy the letter will be straight in the bin(yep not even recycled)so dont waste your time and money.If I was spending 3k I would have picked up personally no matter where from.
Regarding the postage, not your problem.Its his responsibility to get the bike to you safely, its a total con when buyers ask you to pay extra for insured postage as they have the contract for the safe delivery of the item
When someone asks if I'll post an item I'm selling, I'll ask them to cover the basic cost of postage - standard or express, its their choice - and then I'll pay the extra for recorded delivery and insurance. It means I get a little less out of the sale, but think its worth it for the peace of mind of having proof the thing was received by the buyer, and can claim on insurance if it is damaged.
Even if it had been insured, the courier wouldn't deal with you as you didn't arrange the postage.
The services I've used specifically state that its the receiver's responsibility to claim on insurance [i]once its been delivered[/i], but maybe this varies from company to company.
The services I've used specifically state that its the receiver's responsibility to claim on insurance once its been delivered, but I'm sure this varies from company to company.
Seems strange, they have no contract of insurance with the person receiving the parcel, so don't see why they would do that ?
Which companies are you using as I've never seen that before ?
Seems strange, they have no contract with the person receiving the parcel, so don't see why they would do that ?Which companies are you using as I've never seen that before ?
I am talking Australia here, so accept it may well be different, but when I send things by Auspost and add their insurance, they stipulate that it's the senders responsibility to claim on insurance if the thing never arrives, but once its in the hands of the receiver it's their responsibility to claim. I think it may be something to do with the receiver being in a better position to provide details/photos of the state of the package...
I am talking Australia here, so accept it may well be different,
It is. Totally the opposite in the UK. The seller is responsive for the item being received in good condition. If it goes wrong in transit the seller makes a full refund and then claims on the insurance. I know. I've done it.
I am talking Australia here, so accept it may well be different,It is. Totally the opposite in the UK. The seller is responsive for the item being received in good condition. If it goes wrong in transit the seller makes a full refund and then claims on the insurance. I know. I've done it.
Fair enough - just another thing we do upside down over here then 😉
If the damage is non structural, ride the bike, a few scratches and scuffs won't make it to slower. 6 months down the line you would of added to them. Mountain bikes crash down mountains, it's what they are for. Bikes are only perfect when they are brand new.
Seems strange, they have no contract of insurance with the person receiving the parcel, so don't see why they would do that ?Which companies are you using as I've never seen that before ?
Not always the case. I had a situation recently where I bought some wheels off someone & they were sent* via Parcelforce, I claimed directly.
*when I say sent, the box looked like it had been dropped in the sea, then kicked from one end of the country to the other, and finally run over for good measure...
They sent the cheque directly to me (receiver).
As annoying as it is, if its just cosmetic stuff i'd ride it too. Small claims court would be a massive pain, take ages, and could be quite difficult to get the money even if you win.
name and shame
basically all you've done in the 4 weeks you've been on the site is either offer to sell or buy lots of very high end kit
Tis a touch curious OP but chapau if its legit!
Blur LT Carbon
2012 Stumpy Evo Expert Carbon
2012 Orange Gyro
Carbon Nomad
Nice shed can you lend me a fiver!
Does seem odd that the OP is still offering sight unseen on expensive bikes after posting this thread.
Not doubting the issue they've had with the Nomad but also curious as to whether they're trading in stuff they've bought.
Blur LT Carbon
2012 Stumpy Evo Expert Carbon
2012 Orange Gyro
All for sale by Op
Carbon Nomad
Just bought
Hora did you win the Euro's and not spilt the beans?! 🙂
Sorry I'll leave you both alone now!
If the damage is non structural, ride the bike, a few scratches and scuffs won't make it to slower. 6 months down the line you would of added to them. Mountain bikes crash down mountains, it's what they are for. Bikes are only perfect when they are brand new.
Way to miss the point, Charlie! WHOOSHHHH! There it goes, right over you head! 🙂
If the damage is non structural, ride the bike, a few scratches and scuffs won't make it to slower. 6 months down the line you would of added to them. Mountain bikes crash down mountains, it's what they are for. Bikes are only perfect when they are brand new.
The OP would have either adjusted his price offered OR....as its carbon he might not have even paid for the thing.
I've done this before- had forks described as new/mint. Turned up needing a service etc and promptly sent them back. Only once did I keep said item.
OP there was a thread on here last week about a private buyer looking for redress with some good (legal) pointers on there:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-bike-purchase-seller-wont-refund
I most certainly wouldn't chalk it up to experience/blame myself. You've been clearly mislead in its description. If the seller had been honest you'd have offered a great chunk less. Ergo hes been dishonest.
Loads of "it's only cosmetic" comments.
The OP wrote
There's marks on the fork stantions
which I wouldn't consider just cosmetic given it's a sealing surface. And a new CSU is typically, what, £300?
I'd be digesting the thread linked by Hora above and going down the small claims route.
Keep all correspondence of course.
Get a new BB, give it a bit of elbow grease and tlc and learn from it.
Interestingly, the OP was interested in my 5spot I've been selling. Didn't get any feedback from him either way though.
Something smells a bit funny here.
No winners in this situation, whatever action you take.
Just serves to highlight the folly in making big purchases on the internet without being able to pay in cash after being able to kick the tyres.
Also if you are selling stuff you need to protect yourself against the goods not turning up, damage in transit and misleading people in the first place. The seller in this instance has acted appallingly by not putting a bit of effort in and being honest, then not bothering to pack it properly, shameful given the value and a small claims is in order.
and learn from it.
Someones obviously loved riding it, now fancies something else and misdescribes it to get more money and you'd chalk it upto experience?
Someones obviously loved riding it, now fancies something else and misdescribes it to get more money and you'd chalk it upto experience?
Yes, If i was the OP i would certainly not be buying a 3k bike again with only a single photo and a random guy's description from this "experience"
Plenty of people have suggested small claims court. I didn't want to sound like a broken record repeating everything that other have said. IMHO opinion small claims is more hassle than its worth for this sort of thing.
charlie the bikemonger - Member
If the damage is non structural, ride the bike, a few scratches and scuffs won't make it to slower. 6 months down the line you would of added to them. Mountain bikes crash down mountains, it's what they are for. Bikes are only perfect when they are brand new.
I'd agree totally. But if I bought a bike form you and it was scratched in transit, you'd be getting it back. 🙂
That said, I have sympathy for the OP, but he's been far, far too trusting.
IMHO opinion small claims is more hassle than its worth for this sort of thing.
I agree.
I've been for a claim of 3k, and it took over 18 months to get the money. In all likelihood the hearing would be held near the defendants address, which means a day off work, and given my experience i'd be very surprised if you ever got the money.
Only the OP can make the judgement call as to whether its worthwhile.
I realise this leaves an unpleasant feeling of someone "getting away with it" but its just being realistic. Thats why you need to be careful buying stuff 2nd hand. Theres not much you can do when it goes wrong. This is reflected in the low price of 2nd hand goods.
eBay/paypal provides *some* protection, and prices are higher on there.
I fear some people are paying "eBay/paypal prices" for 2nd hand stuff that doesn't come with the same protection for the buyer.
HoratioHufnagel if someone in Portsmouth ripped me off for £100 I'd spend £100, a day off work going there and recovering the money plus costs in person.
Its not 'is it worth the hassle' but principle and how you live your life/strive to live.
The lesson is make the chap chalk it upto experience/learn his lesson not you sucking it up.
Hi
Two things that may help you feel better....!
We all make mistakes... I was ripped off on Gumtree cos l got excited about getting a Yeti. It never came!!
You got your bike!
I have done some Small Claims. Do it if you can be bothered, just for the practice!
Don't do it if youre going to let it wind you up.
If you win, the prize will be a CCJ against him!!! BUT assume he may not be be bothered cos he's got some already.
What l do sometimes is send them a CCJ dummy to get a reaction!!
Call if you want any help
Cheers Paul. 07776143890