Mrs SB and two of her mates went for a ride last night and went up a small lane that they thought was a public road (it does say private but it's a through road connecting two other lanes and has just one farmhouse on it).
As they rode past the house the owner (with wine glass in hand) shouted at them to stop and then proceded to hurl abuse at them (with shocking language) culminating in threats of violence. All three ladies were pretty shocked about the whole episode.
As the OS map only shows it as an 'other lane' I don't know if it's a right of way. Regardless of whether it's a private road or not this guys actions towards three women has made me more than mad....... I'm just trying to decide what to do about it. I have his name address and phone number - any good suggestions other than weeing in his shoes?
Edit: [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=willington+chester+map&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Willington,+Tarporley,+Cheshire,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=t7EYTN72C8GB4Qa5gvj3Cw&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA&ll=53.197729,-2.684698&spn=0.00545,0.020599&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.197659,-2.684611&panoid=Wmgnu5Xon9fdtyBnr56c7g&cbp=12,197.45,,1,11.87 ]This is how well it's signed as being private[/url]
Probably a private lane (We have several out our way) if labelled other lane however does no excuse verbal abuse IMHO.
Get Evans to do a "ride it" past his house.
Get Evans to do a "ride it" past his house.
every day 🙂
[i]it does say private[/i]
There's the clue really 🙂
Stop being pathetic and do something yourself about it. If you're so outraged go and hurl some abuse at him. If not, shut up, forget about it and tell her not to ride there again.
Check with your local Rights of Way Officer, if your in the wrong, there's nowt you can do, if he's in the wrong wee in his shoes, or organise a mass ride past every day for 4 weeks.
just e-mail the gird ref to SFB he will ride past it with the Boggies, get an ambulance to land in his garden whilst he takes photos of his wifes arse that will teach em.
Serioulsy dont winge on here do something, legal, about it
I rather agree. Bawling people out is out of order, but if it's a private lane it's best avoided. Regrettable that anyone is enough of a berk to start kicking off at passing cyclists, but there we are.
Just because there's a sign doesn't mean it's true....
A few nice, noisy, night rides could be in order methinks.....
[chuckles at Junkyard] 🙂
Trespass = civil offence, even then not really an offence if you comply with the landowner's request to 'get orf moi land' by the indicated route
Threatening behaviour = criminal offence
Maybe a visit down there to remind him of the distinction.
Two issues - one is was he guilty of threatening behaviour or other criminal offences?
If so report to the police. A warning from the police should be enough. If it is private land than he has the right to remove people using reasonable force but not to make threats.
Check if it is a right of way.
A visit down there to remind him of the distinction = provocation (so he'd only go down for manslaughter)
😉
STW forum ride?
If it is private land than he has the right to remove people using reasonable force but not to make threats.
So if he grabs your wife and removes her from his land using "reasonable force" it's OK? Though, if he threatens to throw her off his land it's not?
That can't be right?
Put yourself in his shoes, (not exactly the same)
A couple of people come riding up your drive,(private road)
You've had a few drinks (wine glass in hand)
Do you say:
A: hi guys make yourselves at home
B: Get orf me land or i'll kick yer arse
C: Ask them to hold still and come inside and ask STW what to do?
[url= http://www.cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk/sport_and_leisure/countryside/rights_of_way.aspx ]Here's[/url] where to check if it's a ROW or not.
No excuse for going off on one at 3 laydees though - best make sure everyone on that forum ride is using a Hope/King hub...
We need to know exactly what was said.??/
I think TJ means 'make threats' as in:
"If you don't get off my land, I'll bleep bleep your bleep & then stuff it up your bleep"
or words to that effect.
So if he grabs your wife and removes her from his land using "reasonable force" it's OK?
no - the crux there is [i]reasonable[/i]. In the first instance, he should ask them to leave. Once it becomes clear that asking isn't work, thenext step is to "shepherd" the trespasser. physically manhandling them should be a last resort
sofatester - its only OK to touch her if she refuses to leave the land. If she refuses to leave then the reasonable force comes into play
It is not ever allowable to threaten people.
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/cheshirecc.interactivemapping.web.internet/Default.aspx
Not marked as a public right of way on the council website!
I live on a private road and yes its very annoying when people think they have right of way.
As you stated he had a glass of wine in his hand (maybe the catalyst for the outburst?)
Maybe on another day they would have simply pointed out the error in your lady's ways but unfortunately she got an ear bashing.
I have a solution instead of getting revenge..... don't ride the private route again?
Not marked as a public right of way on the council website!
Yep. I suspect this lane used to be a PROW but has since lapsed. Maybe he should put gates on it. Still doesn't mean he can go off on one at three women. Think a phone call is in order.
I'd be doubtful it really is a private road looking at the OS map, but it is possible.
Run it past the local rights of way officer at your council to double check, or do a print out of this map and then ride it yourslef, if challenged ask politlely where you are as you thought you were on this public road and point at map .... beleive it or not it's worked for me in the past and householder has backed down sharpish ....
[url= http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=53.197807%2C-2.685642 ]Take a look at this link[/url] and select the OS option on the right side of the map
However I would have to ask WHY use that road when it looks like a perfectly good bridleway runs almost parallel to it ... again see map .... it runs along side the wood by Tirley Garth and comes out at the end of the same lane
And I would aslo suggest private road or not if your wife and friends felt threatened they should report the matter anyway
It is not ever allowable to threaten people.
So saying "i am going to physically remove you from my land if you don't leave immediately" would be a threat or a warning? Or does it depend on the wording? Would something like "gert orf moi land you peasant, before i throw you to the hounds" would be a big no?
When does a warning become a threat?
What has their sex got to do with it? He asked three trespassers to stop, and got angry when they didn't.
It sounds fair enough to me.
😈
sofatester - all down to "reasonablness" I think. I think the first would be OK ( just) the second is a big no no 🙂
The Cheshire definitive map shows at as an unadopted highway. Basically he is responsible for the upkeep of the lane and therefore would appear, on the face of it, to be private.
However I would have to ask WHY use that road when it looks like a perfectly good bridleway runs almost parallel to it ... again see map .... it runs along side the wood by Tirley Garth and comes out at the end of the same lane
They were going to go up Tirley Garth but one of them knew of the house (her perfect house apparantly) and wanted to show the others!
I best mussel the hounds in future then TJ. As I wouldn’t want to get owned with some Bombers by someone’s over sensitive husband!
😀
so they went up there specifically to have a good old ogle at someones house. thought process: heres a road, it says its private, but i really want to look at the house of the person whose road it is, so off we go, im sure they wont be annoyed at strangers riding up there road to have a good old nosy.
still, threatening women is wrong.
Just becuase its marked on an OS map, it does not mean its a ROW. Especially 'whites' - many of them are unadopted and not ROW's.
If it was additionally clearly signed as private, with the words 'no through route' as this seems to be at both ends, if I'm gonna ride it, I'd expect some aggro if caught.
You don't have the right to hurl abuse at anyone tbh.
Just because a road is "unadopted" does not make it private even if house owner(s) on the road are responsible for road upkeep. Speaking from the point of view of someone who was in the similar postion and had many a Sunday morning breakfast with an audience of ramblers looking through the window.
It's not exactly obvious, if I saw that sign I would assume it was referring to the field and not the lane.
Abuse is never permissible from anyone in a reasonably well balanced state of mind IMO
Speaking from the point of view of someone who was in the similar postion and had many a Sunday morning breakfast with an audience of ramblers looking through the window
People in cities have to deal with that a lot 🙂
[i]You don't have the right to hurl abuse at anyone tbh.[/i]
With a few exceptions, I'm pretty certain in the UK you do 🙂
Yeah. Cockweasle.
I'm prepared to be corrected by someone who knows better, however:
Rights of way do not "lapse", they have to be extinguished. Unless they have been extinguished they will (should) be recorded on the Definitive Map held by the local authority (often accessible on line). NB: there maybe two copies a "working" one and the "original", absolutely definitive one. The latter often looks like a well worn piece of flimsy paper that's been stuffed in and out of pockets / wallets / etc far too many times. "Original" has precedence over "working".
As someone else has said, whether a highway is adopted or not is not strictly relevant to whether there is a right of access over it. Adoption (to paraphrase) indicates / assigns who is responsible for the highways upkeep, maintenance etc. The Highways Department in the local authority are worth consulting in this respect.
I stand to be corrected if anyone knows better.
As for ranting on the internet about the outrageuos treatment of your missus / her mates. Pfft! If you were that pissed off you'd have gone round and done something about it (whether it was the right thing to do or not).
Also, as others have said, just because there's a sign doesn't mean it's legal / appropriate / correct. That's why you need to check with the Definitive Map / Highways Dept. Some folks once diverted a BW out the back of Cookridge / Leeds. Lovely homemade signs, alternative route offered etc. However, local authority sorted it out because they had no right ot do so and had not gone through the correct process.
If the land owner was making threats of violence then report the moron to the police. Private land or not I'm sure they'll want to have a word with him.
Why not just move north a bit and enjoy freedom?
This right of access business needs to be sorted in England. Why aren't you folks petitioning your MPs?
It's right that has been stolen from you. Get it back.
Easy, rip down the "private" sign, replace with suitable slanderous comment (is it slander or libel? I can never remember the difference) Perhaps a suggestion about said owners relationship with his livestock? Yeah its technically illegal and wont make much difference, but vigilanty action is about feeling better, not actually righting wrongs!
I thought it was going to be another lane in Cheshire that leads into Delamere!
But cutting along the lane you put up what do I see!
[img] 
[/img]
Not me BTW
ah but the road in question is on *off* Tirley Lane, is it not?
This right of access business needs to be sorted in England. Why aren't you folks petitioning your MPs?
Funny isnt it, as a legal alien in Scotland I love the access rights, but I'm not sure I'd be so keen if I had some land people wanted to walk all over. The rights don't extend to land immediately around a property as far as I can tell (camping in someones garden isn't allowed for example) so there's no point going down a private road if it passes a house that would equate to walking through someones garden. On the larger scale it's about freedom to roam etc, but on the smaller scale its about privacy and people are oddly entitled to both I suppose.
Regardless, that sign looks like it related to the field, there's no gate on the road and if they want to claim it's private land and stop people going on it they should make it more obvious. As adults the women should be able to take his threats in context and not get so wound up about it.
Isn't there an interesting sign at the other end of that private lane?
For the new [url= http://www.midcheshirebridleways.co.uk/ ]Delamere Loop[/url] bridleway?
(Map download from that page)
Get yersel away up there in the dead of night wi' a tin of bright paint and a big brush, and create a large 'cock'n'baws' icon, as elaborate as you have time for, with the head pointing right up his private lane!
That'll teach him.
Go round and give him a rigorous debrief, then beat him to death................that'll learn him. 😆
Just had a nose on the West Cheshire Gov interactive map and the road doesn't show up as anything
Err edit editted I got the law wrong
Haha - Junkyard !
Just had a look on the OS map, what's wrong with the bridleway 300m down the road?
Yup. That bridleway is ace, going down from Tirly Lane, especially if you have a slower companion with a mobile to give you the 'all clear' from the bottom.
As is the section of Sandstone Trail that runs down to the same road from Summertrees cafe, (that's naughty though) 😈
I've nearly come a cropper a few times on that Bridleway those bends really catch you out at speed
Yeah, ace aren't they! (but it's walkers or horses then the fence and big ditch on the right that have always bothered me more 😆 )
I'm guessing the OP is not a spontaneous type.