[Closed] Bolt Thru - Can you feel the difference?

To be honest yes I felt a difference.
However the biggest reason for me to change was when I had a crappy QR come undone (and realising this when I landed a jump). Made me a little paranoid

no but not the heaviest or the fastest
Most folk I know say they can tell the difference.

oh yes. big time. Im lucky enough to own some 29er reba 20mm, and they are teh AWESOME!

Im still waiting for a 20mm carbon rigid for though.

@Stoner: maybe that's because they're 29ers though, longer... Glad you're feeling it.

possibly. It's been so long since I rode 26" I can[T] visualise how flexy they are.

EDIT: "CANT"

yes but I still ride qr. For me it just another thing that's marginally better but not the real life difference to your riding that the marketeers would like you to believe.

@graham: I can understand that mate. 😯

It highlights the other flaws in my bike and instantly makes me at least 3% more knarly looking as i put my bike together in GT car park..

@clubber: That's what i thought but needed someone else to say, I'm gonna have to try someone else's before I splash out.

I can't think of a time when my wheel/fork (QR) felt like it stumbled to the side... anyone?

Yes, I really noticed it when hitting rock gardens at speed, the bike tracked better with bolt through.

It you've got a mate with bolt through see if you can swap bikes and redo a section to directly compare.

Yes... Being a bigger unit, I can..

The Rebas on my Love/Hate seem a lot more flexi than the 36s on my Heckler..

Coming down some of the fast descents at TwentyFour12 last weekend, I could hear the spokes tinging.
After a few laps I worked out it was the wheel and/or Fox F29s flexing enough to allow the spokes to touch the brake caliper.
I think I need a 20mm axle on my XC bike. 😳

Yes... Being a bigger unit, I can..

The Rebas on my Love/Hate seem a lot more flexi than the 36s on my Heckler..

wheel and/or Fox F29s flexing enough to allow the spokes to touch the brake caliper.

i don't know shit about these 20mm axles etc, but i would have thought the most likely was the rim/spokes flexing.. i know i've had rubbing road pads when my spokes have been a bit loose and i've cornered tightly.

i would have thought that would be a much bigger flex effect than axle or forks - am i wrong? (i suppose i must be or there wouldn't be these 20mm ones)

My Pace RC41 Fighters QR were stiffer than my 20mm Bolt thru Revs

when my spokes have been a bit loose and i've cornered tightly

build your wheels better 😉

well clearly, but any wheel will flex significantly when you put sideways pressure on the rim

I doubt many people have tried the same fork and wheel in both QR and 15 or 20mm versions to compare properly. I know my 20mm Pike on a Hope Hoops front wheel feels much better than the QR Revelation on a lighter wheel did - but how much I can attribute to each of those is a mystery. Likewise the Revs were night and day better than the old Indy XCs I had on a previous bike, with which you could make the tyre rub the brace just with some hard pedalling.

Personally though, having seen a mis-fitted QR front wheel come detatched, I like having something holding my front wheel in place that needs a lever flipping AND a few rotations AND pulling the whole thing out before my wheel has a chance of coming free.

Bigger unit also and I want to say yes, but never done a like for like comparison - I'd be comparing forks that were markedly different overall, and often changed the frame at the same time e.g. Just gone from a lyrik 20mm to a short travel reba q/r and I can safely say the reba sucks in comparison, but that's apples and oranges really.

I switched from a lefty dlr2 once to some shermans with a bolt through. The lefty is famously stiff (and has a pseudo through axle) and did actually feel stiffer at pace on smooth ground, but the sherman tracked much better through the rocks.

anyone compared things like good shimano QRs, cheap or Ti ones (lower modulus) and a good steel bolt up skewer done up nice and tight with an allen key?

Jeff, I don't know for sure which was flexing most.
If I grab the tyre by the fork crown and try to flex the wheel sideways, it takes quite a bit of force.
If I turn the bike upside down, grip the bars between my feet and apply light sideways pressure to the tyre at 90 to the forks, I can easily get the brake disc to touch either side of the caliper.
It seems to me the weakness is in the forks and a stiffer axle would help.

On the same bike, with similar forks, I'm pretty sure I can feel some difference.
The main thing this does, like using a super tacky front tyre, Is make me commit more.
Not sure of any real world difference other than that, for my level of riding. But after a couple of near misses with QR's I'm a convert.

I doubt many people have tried the same fork and wheel in both QR and 15 or 20mm versions

My experience was with 130mm Z1 freerides (QR), changing to 130mm Z1 sports (20mm bolt through)

yes you can tell 😀

I have the same 08 Talas, test rode another bike with bolt thru & deffo noticed it!

do you need it, no, will you notice it, yes...

I have fox vanilla 140's that I swapped the lowers from qr to 15mm boot thru and the bike feels like it tracks better in fast rock gardens and over roots.

I doubt many would claim that there is no difference in stiffness - the question is more whether or not you would benefit from it.

I'm still running shivers on the DH bike, hardly renowned for their precise tracking - I often notice them deflecting through the rough stuff, but it doesn't actually slow me down (me being shit achieves that nicely).

Still wouldn't ride QR though, but that's due more to the security of 20mm than the stiffness.

I doubt many people have tried the same fork and wheel in both QR and 15 or 20mm versions to compare properly

True enough, but I've got Z1 FRs in both 20mm and QR versions from the same year so they're about as controlled a comparison as you can get. I wouldn't claim to be able to tell the difference though. They're a pretty stiff fork, so scope for improvement's a bit more limited than with some.

I do prefer the security aspect of 20mm forks.

Yes, I believe I can tell. The difference is enough that I will spec bolt through when I build or buy a bike but not enough to make me chance an otherwise perfectly serviceable pair of forks.

how many people have had a shimqno qr come loose? I've never seen it happen except when done by a newbie who didn't understand how they work.

so, it's just the stiffness aspect that has any relevance IMO. I'd go 15/20 if buying a new fork and the price difference was negligible but wouldn't bother otherwise. I've tried 29er rebas in both qr and 20mm fwiw.

I doubt many people have tried the same fork and wheel in both QR and 15 or 20mm versions to compare properly

I built my front wheel on a convertable superstarcomponents QR/20mm hub. I moved from a 2007 Reba 29er QR to a 2008(9?) Reba 29er 20mm.

Definitely noticeable increase in stiffness. Much better tracking.

I often only ride my bike with rigid forks, rather than the 20mm rebas, which means converting the wheel back to QR and although we're talking about two different fork designs I think a lot of the feeling of additional deflection comes from the narrower joint faces at the axle.

a 2007 Reba 29er QR to a 2008 (9 ?) Reba
29 er 20 mm.

so, not the same fork, then 🙂

having ridden those two forks in 26" both with qr there's still a noticeable difference...

😛

Indeed. no power bulge. I bet that made it the industry standard "30% stiffer" too 😉

32% I thought 🙂

Stand in front your bike with your front wheel between your knees, then twist the bars from side to side.

Observe where the flex occurs.

Loose spokes, flexible stems, flexible bars and flexible forks can all contribute.

I noticed a big difference between when I trued the wheel, fitted a stiffer stem and fitted stiffer forks that also had a 20mm bolt-through.

Nearest I've come is swapping a set of QR Revelations on a 5 Spot for a set of 20mm Pikes - there was a discernibly more 'direct' feel to the steering when riding with the Pikes. I still have the Revs on a long travel steel hard tail, which is more 'noodle' feeling all round - it still goes where you want it to, but as you'd expect with a steel frame, it's a very different feeling to an aluminium full-sus.

I've never had a problem with Shimano QRs, but I've seen one or two of the 'no brand' basic ones on our youth club bikes come undone mid-trail, despite me personally checking they were done up properly at the outset of a ride. I've always been a bit paranoid about it since reading about Russ Pinder's accident a few years back.

it only makes a difference if its 25mm bolt thru 😀

my 08 enduro goes exactly where i tell it too, normally in a hedge.....

tried a friend’s qr 140 van on the old chain slapper at cannock, it felt awful in comparison, i was point one way and the wheel another.

I too would agree that i can tell the difference (also with rear 12mm botl through).
I had QR revs beforehand, and if going through a rock garden they would (only a tiny bit mind) 'squirm' the wheel around the rocks. With 20mm pikes you can 'feel' the wheel trying to turn around the rocks, but as the 20mm is so stiff, the forces are transmitted to the bars, and you can feel it trying to turn the bar (rather than the wheel simply squirming). A good firm grip on the bars is needed, and the wheel then tracks nicely!

I've got a meta, which is known for a wiggly back wheel! The 12mm sorts that out nicely too!

DrP

I've never noticed much difference.

Not a real world comparison but, my 04 Mount Vision came with Fox Float 32's RLC forks with a QR. Felt fairly stiff and i didn't notice much (if any) deflection. Bust those forks and fitted a set of Reba SL's with QR. really noticed the difference, much more 'noodly' through the rocky stuff.

Bought a Wolf Ridge fitted with Pike 20mm Maxle, Sun Ringle hubs and Mavic EN 321 rims. The difference is night and day, blat through stuff that would have me pinging around like a pin ball on the Mount Vision. How much is down to the bolt through alone, and how much is down to all the other factors of heavier wheels/stiffer and bigger fork/more robust frame etc.

I've used QR Fox Floats and Rockshox Recons, then tried Pikes 20mm which were vastly better feeling, even to me and i'm pants at riding.

I currently have 20mm Revs. I am very interested in views on these rear 10/12mm bolt through axles as in Hope conversions, anyone tried these out?

Bigbloke - my Wolf Ridge has a 12mm maxle lite on the rear, i don't know if i can really tell the difference because the whole suspension system on the bike is different. The rear wheel does track better but i'd be more inclined to put that down to the whole bike rather that one part in isolation.

I changed the forks and wheels at the same time, from 9mm and skinny XC rims to 15QR and Stans Flow. Made the bike feel like it only went where it was pointed and much less prone to being deflected by rocks/bumps/etc. How much was fork stiffness, how much was extra slackness and travel (40mm), how much was wheel stiffness, who knows? I know I really really like it!

I can't. swapped between pikes and recons on the same bike - no ohte change, no difference I can feel. I'd rather have 20 mm for wheel security but going to the recons saved 1.5 lbs