[Closed] Blind Gap Jump on Alps DH run with bike laid sideways across take off. WWSTWD?

You did the right thing mate, some folk are just a bit selfish.

Move on.

I did that at Leeds Urban Bike Park a few weeks ago. The massive jump line up the top end of the park. Guy crashed on about the 3rd jump in, I saw him hit. He wasn't moving and he was on the blind side of the jump so I rode up and laid my bike across the top, clearly visible to anyone on the start ramp. It still took one other guy (a mate of the rider who'd crashed) standing there on top of the jump with his arms out shouting "don't ride down here!!" to stop people riding it.

You did the right thing. Some people are just idiots.
Hope your son is OK!

I think I'd do the same thing as you but there are some real selfish cocks out there.

Had a similar experience when I was lying on the side of one of the trails with a shattered shoulder at BPW - some **** just rode by ranting about 'idiots leaving their bikes on the trails' or some such while my bike & I were half on the trail in agony.

Hope your son's OK and not sustained any serious injuries.

Eh? They were being idiots. You did 100% right thing. It’s same rules as alpine skiing. Get back up the hill and protect the crash with crossed ski’s. Foreign alpine-y types should know that. Hope your kids feeling better.

She was probably related to the ****wit that drove through the warning triangle, that I’d positioned to prevent people rear-ending my broken down car last week. (Some others almost hit the fully lit-up police car which then took over the hazard-warning job).

Very sensible, maybe the system should be adopted by the parks and trail centres so people don’t think someone is having a picnic.
Maybe a note on trail maps.

She was a being a stupid ****, obviously unaware of the codes/ ethics of these situations. You are a better person, she is not. Hopefully her partner has given her some appropriate advice. If he had had to have used a raised voice I do not think that it would have been inappropriate.

Hope the ween is OK and riding again soon.

You did the right thing... disappointing number of entitled bellends out there unfortunately ☹️ Hope you son's ok

If I get something wrong (like a jump), I tend to get frustrated at the immediate apparent cause - so if I was coming up to a jump, saw a bike awkwardly angled near it, assumed (wrongly) someone had stopped to take a look and left their bike somewhere stupid (which does happen), tried to go round it and then messed it up, I'd probably be annoyed and vent for a few seconds before realising it was all my fault. If she'd assessed the situation fully, she'd probably have realised you were grand, but mid-trail, adrenalin pumping isn't always the way to make measured judgements

Rule one: Secure the accident zone. Always. You don’t want to be the next casualty. You did everything right. Hope your son is OK.

It's the same people who ride down the newly laid volunteer dug trails at Gisburn, it's all about them and their enjoyment

Absolutely the right thing as it made the people stop and get off their bikes. Prevented someone jumping the gap and landing on you... which you and your wean may not have walked away from.

You can always walk away from sweary people....

Probably stating the obvious, but make sure son 2 (the one that didn't come off) is ok too - he might be stressing out that he 'got it wrong' making the lady angry.

Obviously he didn't, she was a dick, but important that he understands that.

You did 100% the right thing so don't worry there.

The angry people are probably used to people leaving bikes lying around while scoping out jumps and features. It's easy to get angry when frustrated and hopefully they'll come away from this with a little more understanding.

I must admit if I saw a bike laying down across a trail my first thought would be "what idiot left that there" as that happens a lot and is usually just thoughtlessness on the part of the owner. Looking for signs of a problem would be secondary and at downhill speeds that might be too late.

Obviously you need to do something to stop riders following on so you did the right thing but we don't have a standard like crossed skis on the piste so you can't expect everyone to understand. Maybe we need something but I'm struggling to think what it would be that wouldn't look like the usual mid-trail puncture repair

Hope the lad is ok. Horrible seeing your kids get hurt.

You were completely in the right. Dont give them a second thought.

I must admit if I saw a bike laying down across a trail my first thought would be “what idiot left that there” as that happens a lot and is usually just thoughtlessness on the part of the owner. Looking for signs of a problem would be secondary and at downhill speeds that might be too late.

When I see bikes across trails my immediate thought is:

"either there's been an accident or some idiot has left a bike there"

swiftly followed by:

"If it's option A I should slow/stop so I don't hit them, if it's option B I should slow/stop in case there's more idiots with them or the idiot jumps out from somewhere"

At no point do I think "I'll just carry on and see what happens"

You did everything right OP, some people are just a bit wrong in the head.

I must admit if I saw a bike laying down across a trail my first thought would be “what idiot left that there” as that happens a lot and is usually just thoughtlessness on the part of the owner. Looking for signs of a problem would be secondary and at downhill speeds that might be too late.

Obviously you need to do something to stop riders following on so you did the right thing but we don’t have a standard like crossed skis on the piste so you can’t expect everyone to understand. Maybe we need something but I’m struggling to think what it would be that wouldn’t look like the usual mid-trail puncture repair

Maybe add a child making gesticulating gestures to stop to the bike across the trail like the OP did with 60m visibility to slow down in? You are making excuses for them that they don't deserve. And whilst I understand your assumption order (thoughtless dick first, then possible accident) based on frequency of what you tend to come across when you see abandoned bikes it clearly needs adjustment. Always think worst case scenario first - your actions should reflect the safety of others as much as your own.

On a positive note, at least the lad learnt some proper language to use when he crashes again in future, I mean crying isn't very gnarcore is it, much better he learns to express pain through obscenity so he can mature as a rider.

Sounds like you kept your cool, good job. You could have lost your shit and hoofed her in the slats which would have caused more problems and not helped you son in the slightest. Hope he's OK.

It sounds like you did the right thing, OP and most folk here seem to agree.

Just thinking aloud here, but would a bike propped upside down in the trail seem more deliberate than laid on its side in the trail? Might make it less likely that folk would assume you've left the bike there carelessly.

Even if you take the 'emotion' out of it and assess the situation as an outsider, you did the right thing.

The situation was basically one injured person and one damaged bike. If she'd blasted the jump and hit you, then the most likely outcome is three injured people and two damaged bikes. For pity's sake you were also acting in her best interests!

Mind you, the woman concerned sounds like the type of person who would ride the jump, injure herself and you and your son and then blame you anyway for even being there. There is just no winning with some people, so I'd forget about it.

I also agree with the OP. I wonder though if we could do something like place a bike upside down, on its bars, which makes it look like a deliberate act not someone casually stopping and wandering off?

Mind you, the woman concerned sounds like the type of person who would ride the jump, injure herself and you and your son and then blame you anyway for even being there.

Note that many if not most people get blamey whenever they are annoyed or frightened. See people in traffic incidents. So what happens during a stressed and possibly scared moment is not necessarily a judge of that person's character.

Just thinking aloud here, but would a bike propped upside down in the trail seem more deliberate than laid on its side in the trail?

That's the sort of thing I was trying to consider but upside down, (or wheels off and placed somehow) still doesn't quite stand out beyond the usual puncture repair. Not as good as the crossed skis in skiing accidents.

What about the MTB version of a warning triangle - folds up small and has a red LED at each corner, placed on the bike. Fork manufactures could fit a screw on lid in the steerer tube to keep it in.

Note that many if not most people get blamey whenever they are annoyed or frightened. See people in traffic incidents. So what happens during a stressed and possibly scared moment is not necessarily a judge of that person’s character.

I don't want this to wander OT, but that statement is piffle.

'Character' is not always what a person is like when they are in perfect control of everything and can take a few seconds to compose themselves.

Behaviour in adversity is probably a more reliable gauge if anything.

I don’t want this to wander OT, but that statement is piffle.

‘Character’ is not always what a person is like when they are in perfect control of everything and can take a few seconds to compose themselves.

Behaviour in adversity is probably a more reliable gauge if anything.

I would totally agree. The day to day persona is the one consciously or subconsciously assumed as publicly acceptable. What you see when someone is put under pressure and the adrenaline is running is the real personality with the self moderation stripped away.

Back on topic - what about a few feet of yellow/black (or other colour only used for this purpose) hazard tape slipped in the pocket of every rider? See a crash, block trail with your bike and hang the tape across the bike. Tape could be manufactured with a loop at one end to put around handlebar or quick release and double sided with a tear off at the other for fast application.

As far as I'm concerned the OP did the correct thing 100%.

Sure as rider going down the trail, your first reaction is "what idiot left their bike upside down" but as soon as you look over the jump and see a rider on the floor you shut up and suck it up that your perfect run was scuppered.

Just thinking aloud here, but would a bike propped upside down in the trail seem more deliberate than laid on its side in the trail? Might make it less likely that folk would assume you’ve left the bike there carelessly.

I reckon that's a good idea. As you say, it's obviously quite deliberate. Cheers

MSP

On a positive note, at least the lad learnt some proper language to use when he crashes again in future, I mean crying isn’t very gnarcore is it, much better he learns to express pain through obscenity so he can mature as a rider.

PMSL ,,😃

Slab

. If I get something wrong (like a jump), I tend to get frustrated at the immediate apparent cause – so if I was coming up to a jump, saw a bike awkwardly angled near it, assumed (wrongly) someone had stopped to take a look and left their bike somewhere stupid (which does happen), tried to go round it and then messed it up, I’d probably be annoyed and vent for a few seconds before realising it was all my fault.

Todally agree. I think that's exactly it.

ooh, found a picture of the jump in question.

[img] [/img]

He then got back into it and we did the E4 Enduro route back to Bride Les Bains. All 16km of it.

[img] [/img]

Happy days.

[img] [/img]

Had the same in Les Gets . Mate binned it by riding into a hidden water gulley and big OTB.
Put a bike on the ramp of the take off on the table at the top of Chavannes and got a gob full of abuse from a group of 6 scots lads. They even told me the first thing to do was to move the injured off the track ( so they could enjoy their fun no doubt ) I am not a memeber of the ambulance service but even i know the first thing you do is stop another accident landing on top of the accident that has already happened , then assess the casualty and do not move them until you are certain of no neck or spinal injury
Dickheads
That jump looks shite and the women mental for kicking off for missing it . Your lads got balls though . Guess hes absolutely fine and was just winded in the end ?

Guess hes absolutely fine and was just winded in the end

Dent and crack in his helmet.
Bruise and gash on his ribs.
Graze and bruise on his knee.
Very sore fémur.

So yes essentially nothing too bad.

Lucky escape really. Any spill on that terrain has the potential to be bad. I'm sooooo happy I bought him the full face just before we left. Missus thought I was barmy.

"Excuse me sir, can you stop non-verbally indicating your unease and sort your (total **** of a) wife out while I take care of my injured child?"

Came across an incident in Chatel last week with paramedics attending to what appeared to be a solo rider out cold on the trail. They (?) had placed a bike upside down (on handlebars and saddle), squarely across the trail - made it really obvious that something was wrong.

That's just gilding the lilly though, and the OP did right IMHO.

what about a few feet of yellow/black (or other colour only used for this purpose) hazard tape slipped in the pocket of every rider?

MTB version of a warning triangle

Good luck getting folk to spend money and carry stuff. I mean, MTBers refuse to pay for parking that funds the trails and how many of us even have a warning triangle in our cars?

The success of crossed skis is that mosy skiers will have skis with them when they encounter an accident.

A bike upside down across the trail confers the same meaning. It's much more deliberate and a bigger obstacle than a bike laid down.

But a folded plastic warning triangle that folds down to the szie ofa £10 note that you could hang on with the word CRASH written on it. Slot to fit onto pedal, maude an elastic band to stop the wind blowing it off.
Weighs 15gms
Takes up less space than a tyre lever

Op you did 100% the right thing, make sure youre kids are both clear they did the right rhing.
To all those suggesting emergency tape warning triangles get a grip of yourself.
If someone is stupid enough to try and pass a trail blocked by a bike they are a fe##'wit.
As an earleir poster stated ppl came close to driving into a police car with flashing lights.. what use is your tape or other tat clipped to your bike.
Their is always some ignorant selfish git that dosent want their ride ruined, it dosent matter if your bleeding out your femoral artery youve spoilt their day and need to let you know.
Be safe assume everyone is out to kill you and either ignore them and their selfish nature or take some bombers too them, wee in their shoes and bury them under a new trail feature.
You cant live life believing idiots can be convinced of reason. They live in a different reality.
OP and kids hope your all back out on trails and your kids can get at many ppl are d###s.

That’s one 😎kid right there and not even my expletive ass would do that in any scenario whilst out riding a bike in beautiful scenery.

Maybe the fishywoman had to desperately clear the gap to get asap to the nearest chemist for itch relief stuff

They (?) had placed a bike upside down (on handlebars and saddle), squarely across the trail – made it really obvious that something was wrong.

That's a good idea.

Good luck getting folk to spend money and carry stuff. I mean, MTBers refuse to pay for parking that funds the trails and how many of us even have a warning triangle in our car

Fair point, but some people would buy them and some people would notice them, reducing the likelihood of hitting an injured rider.

Also when I take over, I will pass a law that makes them compulsory fit on new bikes and anyone who complains has to pay for a super heavy version made out of Lead and depleted Uranium.

 

Had a similar incident a few years ago when a friend stacked it while doing the PPDS. She had gone over the bars, and landed on her face, and knocked herself out for a bit. The officials came along and decided to airlift her out. My wife and I had no end of trouble slowing people down. One guy went zooming past us and only slowed when the official started swearing at him in french. It wasn't even like they were missing out on a jump or feature, just needed to slow for 100m. Just have to accept that whatever you're doing in life there are a percentage of people that are arses, only interested in themselves and no one else.

I completed the German guiding course since years ago and this is exactly what we were taught and it's something I still do to this day.

Send someone back up the trail to warn others and if possible/sensible place something in the way to slow people down. The last thing you want is someone careering into the injured rider. **** it if those are upset that their run has been interrupted. It could be them in the floor with someone rolling into them.

Well done, op.