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I saw the owners on tv a while back saying how they are always having trouble with cheap Chinese knock offs copying their design.
Maybe it will prod Brompton into doing something about their prices.
If they haven't managed to get their production efficiencies sorted by now so as to bring their costs down then they thoroughly deserve to be chased around the markets by those that can.
Oooo! Music on arrival! Just like the 1990's interweb.
I dunno, there are plenty of folding bikes, what's unique about this one?
http://www.btwin.com/en/city-bikes/folding-bikes/17970-tilt-700-folding-bike-grey.html
I seem to remember them saying they have patents on certain features on the bike but no idea what?
Brompton only had one patent and it expired long ago. I think the other Chinese manufacturers were literally making direct copies, and Brompton used Copyright law (intended for artistic creations, rather than technical) as a defence (see here http://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2006/national-unregistered-design-rights-copyright). It's important to note that copyright won't protect the functional or technical things, like the hinges and wheel that swings under the bike, only cosmetic things like the shape of the handlebars and so on.
Not sure how Brompton can prevent someone using their folding mechanism on a new bike constructed out of carbon.
I dunno, there are plenty of folding bikes, what's unique about this one?
The folding mechanism. To fold a Brompton...
- rear wheel swings under frame
- front frame folds around so rear/front wheels in same place
- handlebar drops down and clips into fork
- seatpost drops and locks everything in place.
Ah right, I see now. Cheers Horatio.
It's the way in which a Brompton folds that is patented, the tuck under rearwheel and sidetuck front is (was) unique to Brompton. Patents mean FA in China.
Saying that, it's about time a carbon version was released, a lighter Brompton can only be a good thing.
[EDIT] Beaten to it 🙂
Interestingly, it's got 18" wheels rather than the 16s on a Brompton...
I don't think it'll affect Brompton's pricing, Stoner; it's €2500!
It's nothing like a Brompton as bromptons are never gonna be that good in quality lol
; it's €2500!
They're turning kids into slaves
Just to make cheaper folders
But what's the real cost?
'Cause the folders don't seem that much cheaper
Why are we still paying so much for folders
When you got them made by little slave kids?
What are your overheads?
They have an internal market of 1 billion people. Does anyone seriously think China needs to take any notice whatsoever of international patent law.
I did a conference recently where the speaker was showing the VW and Audi copies available in China. There was even an example of a Lamborghini concept car the Chinese had actually gone ahead and built. The point he was making to the audience was that if you think you can protect your pharmaceutical sales in China against generics and outright copies think again, you have no chance.
That appears to be a complete brompton copy - except for the annoying hinge clamps.
brompton don't need to change their pricing as they sell every bike they can make, and they manufacture locally, and you can buy the parts now.
That appears to be a complete brompton copy - except for the annoying hinge clamps.
brompton don't need to change their pricing as they sell every bike they can make, and they manufacture locally, and you can buy the parts now.
Did you use to work in the British car industry 🙂
Nope. Surely its quite nice though that brompton, now the UKs largest manufacturer of cycles, is able to sell every single one of its products, doesn't discount in a drive to the bottom, and hasn't off-shored production as that would result in it losing its USP.
Any money spent on a Dahon is only as valuable as the warranty you get on it. When i had mine i had a 5yr warranty on the frame, i had two new frames and 1 new complete bike because the hinge kept failing. They might be alright for an occasional commute, but regularly it doesn't hold a torch to the reliability of a Brompton frame.
It is good aP and hopefully it will continue but if you don't innovate you will be overtaken. If a lighter carbon version becomes as functional as the original and is cheaper then for most people that will be what they buy. The reason Bromptons do well is that they do what they do better than the competition at the moment. If they don't look to keep ahead then the Chinese companies have the will and the finances to build them lighter and cheaper and even in time to a higher standard.
A better analogy than cars would be the UK motorbike industry, I'm sure Triumph and Norton etc were more than happy with their product and their sales. The Japanese came along and started making cheap inferior copies. They didn't stay inferior for long did they. Something like this really should get Brompton thinking about whether they have a long term future. It might be that they are small enough to survive, that their appeal is to a very small part of the market who won't change come what may, the sort of person who will always put a Brooks saddle on their bike and use carradice luggage. If that isn't enough then they will have problems.
Brompton quality is excellent. Had mine 2 years now and used it around 4 times a week, often in shite weather. It's not required one single solitary bit of maintenance whatsoever.
Bromptons are a bit like Rolex Submariners, a timeless design and excellent quality. Very small incremental updates over the years. Others may have more bells and whistles, be flasher and more headline features but residual values show that the second hand market is strong because it is a quality product and does what it does so well.
You know that brompton are in the process of moving to new significantly larger premises in Greenford from their current Brentford base as they've reached the limits of what they can sell based on the production capability.
Over the last few years they've developed the bikes incrementally as loddrik has said above, and also made sure that the bikes are maintainable.
There's already a Japanese company making and selling brompton carbon fibre fuselages - they're really not cheap (approximately the price of a built up brompton), and they don't appear to be significantly lighter either.
They sell 80% of their bikes abroad - to some extent directly to those people with a ridiculous notion that British is all pies and tweed and (Italian owned) leather saddle companies. Look at the brompton fanboy facebook pages - the Chinese and Japanese can;t get enough of them, all modified with Union Jack saddles, bags, pennants, stickers etc.
I think that they probably know what they're doing - the MD of brompton is a pretty shrewd guy.
if you don't innovate you will be overtaken
You know they added three new colours in 2013?
.. but there's more to this than just making the same frame out of carbon isn't there?
IIRC Brompton chose steel was the best material due to the size, stiffness and durability they wanted. These folding frames get a lot of force through them. Dahon/Tern have strict weight limits I think (100kg?).
No-ones ridden this "carbon copy" yet, but I'd but interested to see if its stiff/durable enough (something they talk about on the 'Frequently And Questions' page).
Yes, and I'm not sure carbon is the right material for something that's got lots of clamps and brackets.
Fundamentally, there's only really one way to make a very compact folding bike - get the wheels side by side, and wrap the frame as tightly around that as possible. Andrew Ritchie basically nailed it 30 years ago.