[Closed] Bit of a warning...

Thanks for the heads up rickon.

Name and shame I say

Free market.?

It's against the STW rules, on eBay and Pinkbike it's fine. Here is a community.... so should have community spirit - i.e. don't screw over your fellow forum members.

Free market.?

yeah right, until it happens to you.
it is plain offside, life is full of shytes who like to make a fast buck.
thanks for the warning rickon

neilsonwheels - Member
Free market.?

nope, against STW rules

Obviously a Tory politician.

Edited to protect the innocent....

Bit of amateur stalking suggests the new seller is perhaps a little cold, and born in 1976?

The seller of that one claims to have owned it from new? If that is the bloke then Rickon needs to name him!

name and shame

Oooo... didn't know he'd posted on here, or anywhere else yet - just had emails. I'll do some snooping.

EDIT: That was proper amateur stalking 😉 Not chilled, no. I don't think the chap as a STW account - or at least I can't find one associated to him.

why are folk allowed to just sell on the forum?

why not make a rule that you have to be a forum member for a certain amount of time, and contribute a bit, even if it is a few nonsense posts.

Here is a community.... so should have community spirit - i.e. don't screw over your fellow forum members.

Well, unless you can do it by over-pricing your stuff, in which case the 'community' has been warned off...

I could be wrong, phone won't open the guys ad? I did say amateur....

Nope not him....maybe edit your first post?

Done, apologies. *gives up dreams of becoming a private detective*

So, name and shame?

£900 now on eBay 😯

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TURNER-5-SPOT-MOUNTAIN-BIKE-FRAME-DW-LINK-RP23-/290848726243?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43b7ef5ce3

Original post:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-turner-five-spot-large-570

Rickon we sent you a message about this, can you check your spam folder if you didn't receive it and reply to us please.

I once bought a frame on here for £150, it was a dud, shox got tf tuned and bearings replaced, tried selling it on here for a little more as it was in mechanical better condition and got called upon it. I had proof of work done too.

Drac - sent you an email. Nothing in my account, or SPAM....

RScott... you realise the chap literally said he wanted to frame, emailled me within an hour, picked it up a week later, photograph it and then sent me the photos. Nothing's changed on the frame at all.

Given it's £900, and no one is going to spend that on a 2010 frame... hopefully...

Is your the one with the 2012 front triangle and 2010 rear triangle?

It was on ebay but not that ad, I saw it at lunchtime.

Drac - sent you an email. Nothing in my account, or SPAM....

Strange. Emails from the mods always seem to get through to me 🙁

Lots of forums / communities have a no profiteering rule on their marketplaces

I think 99% of people on STW get it, but the issue is that I could just buy up every bargain on the forum, and then try to sell it again on here or eBay or Pinkbike or Bikeradar. It spoils it for everyone, no one gets a good deal and people go elsewhere to buy stuff.

Previous ebay username may help shed some light...

User ID Effective Date End Date
headsupbikes 10-Jun-12 Present
finlay4293 07-Nov-05 10-Jun-12

Emails from the mods always seem to get through to me

The replies from me never seem to make it to them though ...no matter how many times you resend 😈

Lots of forums / communities have a no profiteering rule on their marketplaces

Problem is that this in't being sold on STW now, and there's bugger all anyone can do about it.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. He's bought it fair and square and is selling it on for a profit. Nothing wrong with that. The original owner could just as easily have put more effort into selling it and/or asked a higher price. He won't get £900 anyway.

I've just sold a Vespa scooter I bought for £920 3 years ago for £1040. Is that any different? No. It's not.
Get off yer high horses. 🙂

If you think there's some 'community' thing going on here, I could tell you about a certain well known STWer that was shill bidding on a frame on eBay. He shot himself in the foot though as he never sold it and let it go for far less than my top bid some months later.

It is different, offering the frame at a hugely inflated price, even before he had bought it - when I was thinking of buying it myself already and in conversation with the original owner is taking the proverbial.

I've just sold a Vespa scooter I bought for £920 3 years ago for £1040. Is that any different? No. It's not.

As you did not buy it just to sell it for a profit a few days later they are very different scenarios. I am unsure why you would need that explaining tbh or why you think owning something for 3 years and selling it , for profut three days later or before you even own it, is the same.

A free market would include naming surely...

for a price obviously 😉

As you did not buy it just to sell it for a profit a few days later they are very different scenarios

I don't think they are, sorry. I think they are very similar, as I bought that Vespa knowing i wouldn't loose money on it and I was right.

If someone is selling something too cheap and you spot you can make make profit, I see nothing wrong with that. There's LOADS of people doing it on here, believe me.
All the matters is that the buyer gets what they paid for and the seller is happy with the price. There's enough people selling stuff at inflated prices too.
I caught someone trying to sell and item at roughly 50% more than it could be bought on CRC for in the 'Wanted' section the other week.
I undercut him massively and made a sale. Is that wrong?

So it was advertised off here and then sold on?

The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit.

Says bought elsewhere and sold at profit. So the rules don't state that items bought off the forum can't be sold for a profit... minor details I know but is he actually breaking the rules?

minor details I know but is he actually breaking the rules?

No. He's not.
There's NO WAY to police it either. I just sold a set of forks on here that I bought on here for the same price I paid a year ago. I could have made £20 on them without too much effort

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. He's bought it fair and square and is selling it on for a profit. Nothing wrong with that. The original owner could just as easily have put more effort into selling it and/or asked a higher price.

Well we see a lot wrong with a member buying an item on here and then trying to sell it on to another forum for £270 more.

PeterPoddy he is breaking the rules it's clearly written in the classifieds and we do police it.

Well we see a lot wrong with a member buying an item on here and then trying to sell it on to another forum for £270 more.

Not against your rules though!
You'd have to bring in a 'Don't sell stuff too cheap' rule to stop it! 🙂

I don't think they are, sorry.

I see no reason to reach your conclusion- not loosing money after 3 years = buying to sell at a profit including trying to sell whilst not actually owning. Again no idea why you still think they are the same.

No. He's not.

The rule it breaks.

The ‘spirit’ of our forum is one where users can turn their old, surplus or unwanted kit into extra cash to enable them to buy new bits to help them get out and continue riding. The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit. If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop. We will look at each instance reported to us or spotted by us on a case by case basis and then we will act at our discretion.

3 for 3
The very next sentence on the rules so it reads

The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit. [b]If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop.[/b]

EDIT: Damn still too slow to pass the moderator test...just one more chance please mark

Your on a roll of wrongness today PP

Here is the rule:

The ‘spirit’ of our forum is one where users can turn their old, surplus or unwanted kit into extra cash to enable them to buy new bits to help them get out and continue riding. The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit. If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop

So, if l (For instance) sell stuff on here I can use the money to 'carry on riding'
Fine.
As long as I don't "trade parts bought elsewhere ...... at a profit"
Fine
Crystal clear.

Please tell me me where that says I can't BUY on here and sell on elsewhere, and how it would be possible to stop it if it did.

EDIT

The rule it breaks.

Please tell me me where that says I can't BUY on here and sell on elsewhere, and how it would be possible to stop it if it did.

Here:

If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop

Actually tracking that is another matter...

If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit

What if that profit is to soley fund their bikes?

I put it in bold for you PP [ a mod told you as well] I am sorry I cannot help you any further as i really dont see how it can be made any clearer to you.

You cannot do it for profit, the one bit you fail to mention in your post

It does not need to be re written for this instance as it not even a credible argument though I suspect you may labour it for some while.

Here:

If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop

IT DOESNT. It implies SELLING ON HERE. 🙂 NOTHING to do with buying.
And they are not "exploiting our forum"
They are exploiting eBay, if anything 🙂

What if that profit is to soley fund their bikes?

In the words of those rules I'd say it'd be tough. Although I imagine that the mods would be in touch and you try explain it.

IT DOESNT. It implies SELLING ON HERE. NOTHING to do with buying.

That qquote implies nothing about location as its solely about how you cannot do it for profit - it would seem they are implying they dont care wher eyou make profit as you simply cannot

And they are not "exploiting our forum"

They are exploiting eBay, if anything

Suppose you have managed to keep every post wrong

Good effort

PP the chap in question contacted Rickon direct yes but he was trying to go under the radar of us, it didn't work as Rickon was sensible and raised the issue.

Now he's selling the item in Ebay that's not our issue, is Ebay no there for that. This forums is not classified section is not for making profits so don't allow people on here to post items on here for a profit.

the one bit you fail to mention in your post

I did further down in the post above yours. 🙂

What if (And this has happened too) someone spots a PSA on here, for a cheap item from a store, buys one (Or in one case I know of, 25!) and sells that on to pay for new bike parts. I've done that. I didn't BUY it on here. I didn't SELL it on here (CRC and eBay for the record) but the 'profit' I've made is being used to purchase an item on here! 🙂

Too many grey areas! 🙂

I've helped sooooo many people off this forum and via this forum it's unbeliveable. I don't rip people off. I don't sell crap. I don't 'trade' on here, but I do buy and sell (And add value to items in the process quite often) to fund my bikes. I'm doing it now. You're going to see my C456 for sale soon, and a new bike rise out of it's ashes, but I'm not breaking any of the rules!

Now he's selling the item in Ebay that's not our issue, is Ebay no there for that. This forums is not classified section is not for making profits so don't allow people on here to post items on here for a profit

You been drinking, Drac?

well done and you noticed the key point of doing this, not breaking any rules.

Oh Dear I typed it in Junkyard character with bad spelling and talking jibberish ...give me a minute 😉

It's terrible when someone doesn't agree, isn't it? 😉

Dont mind disagreement it i just that some of that is not that close to sense tbh - arguing they are the same for example 😕

happy trails

You been drinking, Drac?

Not yet just crap typing so Safari thinks it'll fix it for me.

I'm glad my sensible post turned into an argument 😉

I don't think you disagree, I think what PP is saying is the user doesn't break the letter of the rule, but Drac is saying he's breaking the spirit of it.

STW is a community, bound by good will and community spirit. The user is breaking that, and doesn't belong here. Simples 🙂

You could have just replied "No thanks" to his email and moved on with life. 🙄

I'm glad my sensible post turned into an argument
I don't think you disagree, I think what PP is saying is the user doesn't break the letter of the rule, but Drac is saying he's breaking the spirit of it.

Bingo!
If anything, I've pointed out some ambiguity in said rules that needs tidying up... 🙂
At the end of the day, though, there's not a lot that can be done if someone chooses to do this.

One question if I may?
What's that Turner actually worth? Is the £570 a bit cheap? I genuinely have no idea. 🙂

You could have just replied "No thanks" to his email and moved on with life

Fortunately he chose to warn other forum members of someone abusing our classifieds by trying to sell items bought here for a profit to others on here.

If anything, I've pointed out some ambiguity in said rules that needs tidying up...

Which part, genuinely interested?

Have we figured out that headsup is/was a member here and is actually our old friend Peter Gratwick. 😀

What's that Turner actually worth? Is the £570 a bit cheap?

I'd have said that was actually a fair price, it's not in perfect condition, it's got a dent on the downtube, and some scuffing. Possibly a little warranty left if it's been brought across from the original user.

You could have just replied "No thanks" to his email and moved on with life

If it is really Peter Gratwick I'm glad I pointed this out, he's been a plague on the classifieds using it for trade under many pseudonyms. Not just selling overpriced gear, but giving wrong items - i.e. I bought some CB Candy SLs off him, turned up and they were Smartys.... wasn't interested in the slightest.

I think what PP is saying is the user doesn't break the letter of the rule

If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop

Not sure why anyone would think that this user is not doing this as they tried to sell a frame they did not own for more than they were going to pay for it. Ie they tried to profit both within STW and now via ebay. I fail to see who you think that this is not exploiting for profit- you may think this is ok [ different debate] but there is no way you can think it did not happen.

If anything, I've pointed out some ambiguity in said rules that needs tidying up...

Which part, genuinely interested?

I think what they are saying is that the rules dont specfically stop you buying something on here and selling it on EBAY for a profit [ i think they do]. I think the phrase above clearly covers it as it "bans" making a profit

I think they want to se this phrase to think its banned

" no buying of items from the classifieds soley to sell on at profit on this or other sites " to consider it forbidden.

However I dont see how it could be policed

I see no ambiguity at all. But we could put it to the test if Peter were to buy something from the classifieds, sell it on ebay for a higher price and then we could see how long it takes for me to ban him 🙂

Is it really worth the effort in PP's case? He does actually contribute to the forums (arguments / ranting mostly 😀 ), but he's not a trader.

I see no ambiguity at all. But we could put it to the test if Peter were to buy something from the classifieds, sell it on ebay for a higher price and then we could see how long it takes for me to ban him

Seems like a fair test of the ambiguity 🙂

I think they want to se this phrase to think its banned

" no buying of items from the classifieds soley to sell on at profit on this or other sites " to consider it forbidden.

However I dont see how it could be policed

But the thing is, we're not allowed to use this 'STW community' to point out when someone is selling something at too high a price any more, possibly stopping someone being ripped off, are we? And yet I've seen 2-3 instances of this in the last few weeks as I've been browsing the classifieds, one of which I already pointed out on this thread
So I can sell someone a £6 chainring for £10* and nobody can stop me by pointing it out on the thread.
That is EXACTLY the thing we're on about, isn't it?

* I'm not, but someone else is.

Seems to me the Classified Sales are a RPITA. What do they add for da STW Management and why don't they just get rid to save all the aggro? BTW, I use them on occasion and have never been ripped off nor had a complaint. Dung make me immune though.

But the thing is, we're not allowed to use this 'STW community' to point out when someone is selling something at too high a price any more, possibly stopping someone being ripped off, are we?

Yes you are you can email the mods by using the report button, many other people seem to manage this.

And yet I've seen 2-3 instances of this in the last few weeks as I've been browsing the classifieds, one of which I already pointed out on this thread

Why didn't you report them using the report button?

Another scenario:

I know my Rockshox.
I have a pair of knackered Rebas I bought for spares off here for £10 hanging in my garage (true)
Lets say I buy another pair of Rebas off here today (Entirely possible) for £40 and combine the two forks into one good one.
Can I then sell them on here for, say, £100 (Which is cheap for a decent set of Rebas) giving someone else a very good deal then use my £50 profit to part-fund the £150 frame I'm in the process of buying off here (also true)

Two thirds of that scenario has, and will, happen. I'm only missing another set of knackered Rebas.
I could sell these theoretical Rebas on here for £100, or lump them on eBay for £130. I'd rather sell them on here. It's faster, easier and cheeper for me AND the buyer.

Would I be allowed to? Would that be morally wrong? Serious question. 🙂

Why didn't you report them using the report button?

It was easier to undercut him. 🙂
I pointed it out to the buyer, sent him a link to the part on CRC, then offered far more VFM with something I wasn't intending to sell at all. I only sold it to stop the chap being ripped off. This is what a lot of us do, you know? This morning I've given away another a part I could have taken money for. Why? Becasue someone did the same for me last week. I'm passing the favour on.

Snow day today PP?

Another scenario:

I know my Rockshox.
I have a pair of knackered Rebas I bought for spares off here for £10 hanging in my garage (true)
Lets say I buy another pair of Rebas off here today (Entirely possible) for £40 and combine the two forks into one good one.
Can I then sell them on here for, say, £100 (Which is cheap for a decent set of Rebas) giving someone else a very good deal then use my £50 profit to part-fund the £150 frame I'm in the process of buying off here (also true)

Two thirds of that scenario has, and will, happen. I'm only missing another set of knackered Rebas.
I could sell these theoretical Rebas on here for £100, or lump them on eBay for £130. I'd rather sell them on here. It's faster, easier and cheeper for me AND the buyer.
Would I be allowed to? Would that be morally wrong? Serious question. .

No, you have taken time to improve one of the forks (added value, if you will) and incurred costs (the other fork) doing so, and not just bought it because the seller has under valued it, done nothing to it, and sold it on for more.

I'm unemployed Drac! Made redundant last month.
I did have a booking for a full bike service today (I advertise on a local forum) but it's fallen through, he's coming tomorrow. 🙂

I do all sorts of servicing jobs for mates/locals, I'm trying to get into the bike trade too.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wtd-shimano-9spd-chainrings

I'm unemployed Drac!

Ah sorry.

I'm on me break.

Ah sorry.

Don't be. It's ACE!
Doing my Cytech 2 next month, and I spend my time riding round bike shops asking for jobs. There's some lovely people I've talked to in the last few weeks and I've found some ace shops I didn't even know existed.

Pretty sure headsup was/is Peter Gratwick.

peteimpreza - Member

Digger90 - Member
Never, ever pay by Bank Transfer as you get no protection - insist on Paypal.

I also learned the hard way being ripped off by that idiot Peter Gratwick aka Freeform5Spot on STW. Now banned I believe.

POSTED 21 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Wrong he is back as Headsup

Buttscratcher - Member

Hello,

Peter Gratwick - freeformfivespot, etc... is back on STW, under the pseudonym Headsup:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/headsup

Received an email from him, if I remeber correctly he's a bit unscrupulous and sold me some dodgy pedals too.

Cheers

Butty

Impressive how Gratters is banned yet still generates a multi page thread for the usual reasons
You can be pretty sure it is him as he listed the 5 spot on eBay with the usual mark up before it was even posted to him

What this does demonstrate is that policing the classifieds is next to impossible
In this case he's emailed off board so he's stil free to operate under the radar buying cheap to then move on at a good profit via eBay
Or pinkbike
Or bikeradar
Or decent world
Or gravity slaves
Or gumtree
You get the picture 🙂

Fundamentally fine in principle but not on a site with a good community spirit not to mention rather too many down on their luck financially

The eBay ID of headsupbikes today alone has 4 expensive frames for sale
In conjunction with the other bits of bike this must represent a major turn over for him over the last 6-8 years

So the bottom line I suppose that despite the haters his business is helping the rest of us in giving back to the tax system a major pile of cash

It's far worse that people are allowed to only post in the classifieds - surely 99% of them are traders and are trying to make a profit? What 'normal' MTBer is only ever going to post on the classifieds when there's so much useless crap you can contribute to on the discussion forums?
What a joke, trying to police people making a profit and yet not addressing classifieds-only posters.

the profit is hypothetical, the 5 spot hasnt sold yet!

Rickon, he has listed it as buy-it-now or 'best offer'.
I suggest you offer him £570. And let us know how you get on. 😀

johnmiles;

his business is helping the rest of us in giving back to the tax system a major pile of cash

You honestly believe that a chap lacking in even a whiff of moral fibre will be submitting a tax return!?!

I may be a bit grumpy as I paid mine today and it hurt. A lot.