The only issue here is he hasn't refunded you; not that the bike he took as PX was stolen or sold or even given away. The PX bike was no longer yours.
It all does seem a bit unusual.....
If the retailer has the new bike back, he needs to refund you immediately. Sounds like you have already been more patient than necessary.
The trade in situation is coming across as dishonest from the retailer, and as ‘buyers regret’ from the OP. As others have posted, once the exchange was made the bike no longer belonged to the OP, and it’s no longer any of his business. Unless theyhad a special arrangement, the fact it was let it go for too low a value is irrelevant.
All a bit odd but the one thing that is clear is that you have no right to ask for your old bike back. Forget about that bike.
At best you have the total cost of whatever the cash value of the PX and the cash you paid over.
However I bet the retailer will argue that the bike he sold you is now second hand because it has had a non standard treatment done to it.
I could splash that kind of money on a bike without knowing it would fit me
Not strictly relevant as I don't know if it happened in the OP's case but a returned high value bike that the shop ordered in especially for the purchase must create havoc for a small shop's cashflow. A bike worth £2-3K trade price and you can't return to the distributer but are obliged to refund through the Consumer Contracts Regulations could give your bank balance a massive problem untill you sell it for the second time. A bit niche or in an odd size and even harder.
Not specifically ordered in. It came from stock and is back on the site at the price I paid for it.
And how much to send your old bike to them?
Why did you spend so much on shipping the bike back?
"hello, I want to return this bike to you. How much would it be to use your courier and have it taken from the refund costs?"
£95 for invisiframe - ouch. So have they removed it from the bike now or are they selling it with it on as a freebie to the new owner? Probably hope the new owners asks for the same service and charge them as well 😀
andy - the retailer specifically said I had to return it at my own expense. The £50 it would have cost them was put on to their invoice by mistake by the accounts department. I found that out when I queried the charge. £90 unnecessary expense.
The invisiframe is still on it.
Right after reading 2 pages of this i don't understand WHY YOU haven't driven over to where you bought it from ? And why did you pay so much to return it ! Surly it would of been just as cheap to taken it back by person and sorted it out there and then .
( unless you are not in the same country as the shop )
Correct. I'm not in the same country. I'm in Ireland. Bike shop in England.
Something is definitely missing from this story. It’d be cut and dry otherwise.
Ok where's the shop in England then ?
Yeah this whole story seems like it’s misisng something.
Name and shame....it's all we want to know now 😉
Something is definitely missing from this story. It’d be cut and dry otherwise.
Yup. Don't understand why the retailer took weeks to tell me my bike had been stolen when I had been asking for weeks if he still had my bike. Don't understand why the refund is taking so long.
Name and shame....it's all we want to know now
The retailer isn't here to give his side of the story so I'm reluctant to do so.
Is there another side to the story? Seems pretty matter of fact? Send them a link?
There are always at least two narratives Tom. I've resolved he has until Tuesday to refund me.
Not going to send a link as I didn't start this thread for leverage on a bike shop.
There's a huge amount of stuff I haven't recounted so that's why people may feel there's something missing eg I posted the bike back to the returns address published on the shop's website. Parcelforce then contact me to say those premises are vacant. I contact the shop who admit they no longer occupy those premises and are directing returns to an empty building.
That's very noble but it might also be good to let other folk know not to deal with them.Not going to send a link as I didn't start this thread for leverage on a bike shop.
Not going to send a link as I didn't start this thread for leverage on a bike shop.
How’s that working out for you? Got your 4 grand back yet?
That's very noble but it might also be good to let other folk know not to deal with them.
Scotroutes I genuinely think this is a personal thing. I did some research on them before buying and couldn't really find too much negative feedback about them. The whole transaction was fraught from beginning to end and I have the sense the retailer thinks I'm a knob and is treating me as such. That and the sense the shop is a bit amateurish.
No panic Tom. Section 75 protection.
Don't understand why the retailer took weeks to tell me my bike had been stolen
...and we still don't understand how your traded-in bike is relevant to any of this. If the shop is the one raising that issue as some sort of excuse for not refunding you, that's between you and them, but it's only seems to be complicating the story for anyone else wanting to offer advice.
I realise it's water under the bridge, but in case it helps in future, did you really think a couple of millimeters difference in crank length could make up for the wrong frame size ? The bike's 'reach' is the most important dimension, and crank length hardly has any affect on that. Hopefully you'll get something useful out of this whole experience and get the perfect bike next time 🙂
DiscJockey - cheers. I was a bit focused on crank arm length as I went from 175 to 170 on my last bike and it just felt perfect.
The stolen bike had a 19.5" seat tube and a 125mm Transfer post. The new one had a 20.5" seat tube, 150mm dropper and 175mm cranks. It was just too tall but reach seemed spot on.
Dave Hinde ? 🙂
Not Dave Hinde. Even I'm not that stupid.
Something is definitely missing from this story
This.....all types of oddness.
It has definitely been a bizarre experience.
The stolen bike had a 19.5" seat tube and a 125mm Transfer post. The new one had a 20.5" seat tube, 150mm dropper and 175mm cranks. It was just too tall but reach seemed spot on.
I understand your problem there as I nearly got caught out myself on a mail-order frame that had a longer seat-tube than the bike it replaced. With the 150mm Reverb fully inserted, at max extension, it's my exact max height. A cm higher an I'd have needed to replace it with a 125mm Reverb, but I'm glad I didn't as I use the full travel. I'd never have got shorter cranks to over-come that though - bad idea. Unless you're under about 5ft 5", you should have 172.5mm cranks for an MTB (I'm generalising here, but I doubt you need 170mm cranks). And your legs can't be that short if you had a 19.5" frame before.
A 20.5" seat-tube on modern frames is long, dare I say it, old-school, unless it's a size XL 2018 model. If you really need that much length/reach but not a long seat-tube, there are various manufacturers offering 'long and low' bikes, and that's a good thing. Don't get a 'gate' of a frame just to get the reach you want. If you must do mail-order, really research frame dimensions, and maybe get to a demo-day to find out what reach you need.
Thanks DiscJockey.
Generalising, or making stuff up?Unless you're under about 5ft 5", you should have 172.5mm cranks for an MTB (I'm generalising here, but I doubt you need 170mm cranks).
I'm not far off 6 foot and mostly running 170's (and 165s on the road.....)
Latest thinking (as in the last ~10 years) has all but decoupled crank length from height (or even leg length) its all about proportions, flexibility and intended use.
Yet another phone call from the retailer today saying there was yet another reason why the card refund promised last week couldn't be processed and I had to hand over my card details for the refund again.
In addition, I got an email saying I was being refunded £1460 for my trade in. I'm not - I'm getting £900.
So no refund being generated at present. However, it did occur to me that a very misleading financial paper trail is being created which to date makes it look like the retailer has refunded me approx £10k when they haven't refunded me a penny.
They send me a photo of the receipt from their card machine every time they purport to refund me and the email over states what I am being refunded for my trade in.
Could just be numptyism and I could have a poisoned mind though.
My moneys on that the shop sold your PX for more money than they paid for it & don't want to lose that profit, quite why they would jeopardise that by not refunding you the original amount makes me think they are short on cash flow & have to stick to the original story or they get in trouble for not being upfront to begin with.
That or your half of the story is very misleading 😕
Even money bet 🙄
Are you keeping the card company informed?
They'll not be impressed.......
And maybe the 1460 is what they sold the trade in for..... or what they are claiming on the insurance......
2 unfit might have it on the cashflow point.
I posted the bike back to the returns address published on the shop's website. Parcelforce then contact me to say those premises are vacant. I contact the shop who admit they no longer occupy those premises and are directing returns to an empty building.
This!!!!!!!! Sounds shonky. At this I'd also be involving local, to them, police. Even just for advice.
All sounds pretty strange, the return address being vacant would have me melting their phone line with obscenities for one. It does sound like they've sold it on then burnt through the proceeds - not a clue what the multiple refund / receipts are all about but i'd be wary of being caught in the middle of someone trying to fudge their accounts at your expense. Or they could simply be completely inept & it's all a silly mistake which will be sorted out in due course.
Any pics of the old bike? Someone might have bought it & be unhappy that the bike shop they bought it from is now claiming it's been stolen...
@ shooterman, I don't understand why they cant supply you with a frame the correct size, that you suggested, but they overruled?
Surely then it would be a straight swap and no refund issues? Oh and I'd be pushing for a refund of the courier costs, given the frame size was their suggestion.
Have relations been "fraught" already, leading to a loss of goodwill?
What’s the betting the shop is waiting for the returned bike to sell before giving the refund?
What’s the betting the shop is waiting for the returned bike to sell before giving the refund
That would be my guess.
This is shaping up nicely to be another Ling thread, just without Ling 🙁
Unless you're under about 5ft 5", you should have 172.5mm cranks for an MTB (I'm generalising here, but I doubt you need 170mm cranks). And your legs can't be that short if you had a 19.5" frame before.
This is so wrong. Many MTBers are riding far longer cranks than they should. I’m 5’11 with long limbs, 34” inside leg. 170mm and 165mm cranks on my MTBs.
I see Leonard Zinn (quite the crank expert) recommends MTB cranks be 20-21% of your inside leg length.
OP. Like many I see an issue with how they have handled the new bike issues - not so much with the way they have managed your trade in. How they have not managed to sort component sizing issues or offer a different size, I am not sure - would seem like a no-brainer. As for the refund and return issue, that seems incompetent and dishonest to not pay you your money back promptly and the whole address malarkey too.
Oh and 34” inside leg and 165mm cranks on one bike, 175 on another.
I contact the shop who admit they no longer occupy those premises and are directing returns to an empty building.
At this point I would be camped inside the shop and not leaving until the refund was in my bank.
175mm on my mountain bike, the 17somethings on the roadbike just feel so small and twiddly.
Update. About half the money has been refunded to my card. Waiting on the rest in the next couple of days.
It is genuinely a pity I couldn't get something sorted with the shop as I'm now bikeless and trying to participate in the chub club!
The bike I bought was an Intense Recluse XL. I was happy to pay maybe a couple of hundred more to get a seatpost and cranks sorted but not the sort of money being suggested by the retailer. At £4700 - £5 I would be buying a Hightower C XE which I had demo'd and I knew would fit me.
I did suggest to the retailer perhaps a large Primer which I would have been happy to stick a longer stem on as it's more XC / trail but he didn't bite.
Lost a Sunday drawing up a grid of bikes and sizes trying to see what the retailer would have which would fit (based on bikes I had actually ridden and knew the geometry worked).
I had a feeling I knew what company you were dealing with and now the Intense Recluse has confirmed it. They were alright a year or two ago but since they changed their name and updated the website it has gone downhill.
It looks like they might be struggling and the service has definitely gone suffered, probably taken on too much stock and are struggling to pay bills.
