(I'm not the OP).
Insolvency firms are scum of the earth. I hope the owner gets some recompense but I doubt he will. Guy I went to school with who is a partner in such a 'firm' makes millions more breaking down companies than any of my mates do who build them up. Scum.
Surely they can’t sell it as it doesn’t belong to the shop?
Yeah, auctioning off someone else's property has to be theft surely?
This is pretty much what happened to me with CRC. Did you purchase the bike by credit card by any chance ?
It is theft and can't happen. All you need is proof it's yours so presuming he couldn't and the bike was probably nicked.
Dealt with this loads of times around customers going bust.
This is pretty much what happened to me with CRC. Did you purchase the bike by credit card by any chance ?
It's someone on Reddit, and they haven't updated the post since they made it.
I’m not sure this story can be correct. What if a car park company went bankrupt….would they sell off all the cars that happened to be on their premises at the time bankruptcy was declared?
I’m not sure this story can be correct. What if a car park company went bankrupt….would they sell off all the cars that happened to be on their premises at the time bankruptcy was declared?
If you are appointed over a car park company (e.g. a pay and display type set up) then the vehicles on site are 99.9% certain to not be the company's unless the MD left his company car in the corner.
Sticking with cars, a motor dealer would be a better comparison to a bike shop. Most of what is there is stock of some sort but you also have customer vehicles.
Motor dealers (or at least big ones) have very sophisticated systems for tracking stock and customers/ service work.
BUT if (for example) someone remotely pulled the plug on the IT for non payment then you'd be reliant on reverse engineering that data. It's doable with a car dealer because you have various other sources. You'd find it nowhere near as easy with a bike shop.
im not sure it meets the legal test for theft; quite a jump that he couldn’t prove original ownership when he was never given the opportunity before it was auctioned. The surprising bits are not that a liquidator might sell off something that doesn’t actually belong to the company, or that the Director of a company might not tell them accurately who owns the stock but that someone left a £7.5K bike in August and only physically went to investigate what’s going on in October.It is theft and can't happen. All you need is proof it's yours so presuming he couldn't and the bike was probably nicked.
Dealt with this loads of times around customers going bust.
but that someone left a £7.5K bike in August and only physically went to investigate what’s going on in October
The poster does mention that the shop gave him the runaround for 2 months with lots of excuses. Not sure I would be as patient, but maybe they have other bikes to ride or just don't ride that much so it's not as much of an issue to be without it for a couple of months.
I do wonder if they will leave it similar amount of time before they think to update with what is happening
All you need is proof it's yours so presuming he couldn't and the bike was probably nicked.I'd struggle to prove at least 2/3rds of my bikes are mine. Bought as parts from multiple sources, some of them gifted to me.
Dealt with this loads of times around customers going bust.So you sell stuff where the ownership isn't 100% clear?
but that someone left a £7.5K bike in August and only physically went to investigate what’s going on in October
The poster does mention that the shop gave him the runaround for 2 months with lots of excuses. Not sure I would be as patient, but maybe they have other bikes to ride or just don't ride that much so it's not as much of an issue to be without it for a couple of months.
I do wonder if they will leave it similar amount of time before they think to update with what is happening
We won't see an update, you never really do in the legal advice subs.
Even when people do post them, its usually months/years later, and they don't get upvoted enough to stay visible for more than 30s anyway.
So, I wouldn't get too invested as we will get no closure, most likely
Surely the law is clear that selling some one elses bike is theft.
The proof is that it’s your bike, not that you bought it? So I’d say loads of pictures my unique bike is proof that it’s mine
When in had my house broken into the police didn’t ask, can you prove the hi fi was yours. Until we’ve seen the reciepts well assume it was stolen
A
@poly i left my bike in a shop last week. If they had sold it and kept the money that would be theft. If an employee had sold that would be theft. How is that changed by the shop going bust?
because they would have knowingly been selling someone else’s property. The liquidator has the job of working out what to sell. The liquidator probably took “reasonable steps” to ascertain if stuff was the company’s property like: asking the directors, putting sign in the shop window saying in receivership, advertising in the official gazette or local press. How long should he have to wait for random people to emerge with claims on the goods before he sells them? Often when a local specialist (like an LBS) is under auction the local interest groups would be aware not just that someone had gone bust but now the stock was at the auctioneers. That’s essentially one final chance to turn up and say “I own that” when it would likely be withdrawn to allow enquiries. Now it’s possible the directors have committed companies act offences - but (a) it’s not theft; (b) prosecutions are quite unusual. There must be case law on liquidators selling “stock”, I would imagine there’s probably some horrendous rule that says they aren’t liable for any more that the auctioneer got for the goods.@poly i left my bike in a shop last week. If they had sold it and kept the money that would be theft. If an employee had sold that would be theft. How is that changed by the shop going bust?
Seems strange though. Maybe it's just the way I ride and treat my bikes but within about two rides it's pretty clear that my bike is now 'used' and no longer 'new'.
Unless this particular shop was mostly selling second hand bikes you'd think it would be very obvious what the shop's stock was and what was customer bikes in for service.
From the reddit post:
In October I attempted to access the shop and found it closed and locked on three different occasions. They said they were doing urgent renovations for health and safety.
On the 4th occasion I visited in November I noticed the shop was empty. I did some enquiries, contacted police (who told me it was a civil matter), and eventually I found the shop went into administration. Their stock, including my bicycle, was transferred to a local auction house. After speaking with the manager there I found out my £7,000+ bicycle was sold for a measly £400 against the repair shop debts. (I've found my bicycle on ebay sold between £4000 and £4500 2nd hand.)
Could be the guy is fibbing but if we take him at his word then that sounds like the liquidator has skipped some of the 'reasonable steps'.
If the liquidator was telling customers the shop was closed for 'urgent health and safety renovations' instead of telling them to please pick up their bikes just so they could sell the bikes then that's got to be pretty close to theft, if not actual theft.
Here is the second post from the OP on Reddit.
I have ownership proof and email receipts of purchase etc. And dozens of photos and videos of me going down mountains on it.
I think it would be obvious that this bike would not look like new stock
This from the OP
On the 4th occasion I visited in November I noticed the shop was empty.
So he didn’t find a notice in 4 visits.
In terms of reasonable steps how about phoning/texting/emailing everyone who has a bike booked in? I’ve not left my bike in a shop without contact details.
A thorough description noting scratches etc, any type of receipt, 100% you would need a photo of the frame number and also any photos you have of you on the bike.im not sure it meets the legal test for theft; quite a jump that he couldn’t prove original ownership when he was never given the opportunity before it was auctioned. The surprising bits are not that a liquidator might sell off something that doesn’t actually belong to the company, or that the Director of a company might not tell them accurately who owns the stock but that someone left a £7.5K bike in August and only physically went to investigate what’s going on in October.It is theft and can't happen. All you need is proof it's yours so presuming he couldn't and the bike was probably nicked.
Dealt with this loads of times around customers going bust.
Bill of purchase isn't required directly but in general you would haf bought it from somewhere so highly likely you have a electronic trail. Ebay Facebook etc.
The items I deal with are all identical and stored on customer premises so wjen they go pop and we have to deal with liquidators we give them serial numbers. Never had one rejected.
If the liquidators have sold them or they have been stolen off site by the owners, we just provide the detail and the liquidators pay. Common.
If he has lost 7 grand then it's because he hasn't chased it and has accepted it, probably because it's stolen. It's a 7 grand bike, he would have something.
If he has lost 7 grand then it's because he hasn't chased it and has accepted it, probably because it's stolen. It's a 7 grand bike, he would have something.
Or maybe it's like he's said in the post, where's chased multiple times and been given excuses, and then suddenly the shop is closed and emptied. When he's then investigated and found out what has happened it's too late as the bike is now sold.
If it was stolen why would he have gone to the police?
Plenty of bike shops sell second hand bikes, so it's entirely possible that this one was mixed up as shop owned second hand stock rather than a customer bike in for a repair. Whether it was that or laziness/negligence on the part of the administrator, surely they owe the poster the money to replace the bike.
Could the owner have transferred everything to auction to raise some cash before going under, rather than the liquidator, i know a lot of bike shop people when i was first involved had about as much idea about the law as i did. I was 11. And i've met some *really* shady people over the last 40+ years. (But a lot of well clued up business people.)
Or, much like me, he can't prove he owns it (though it sounds like he can going by the update).It's a 7 grand bike, he would have something.
Here is the second post from the OP on Reddit.
I have ownership proof and email receipts of purchase etc. And dozens of photos and videos of me going down mountains on it.
I think it would be obvious that this bike would not look like new stock
indeed - but with no knowledge of the rest of the stock we don’t know if there were other second hand, warranty returns etc
of course - but that relies on the directors giving you that information. The same people who have failed to turn a bike that needed a repair into cash despite the fact there was a customer willing to pay.This from the OP
On the 4th occasion I visited in November I noticed the shop was empty.
So he didn’t find a notice in 4 visits.
In terms of reasonable steps how about phoning/texting/emailing everyone who has a bike booked in? I’ve not left my bike in a shop without contact details.
The same people who have failed to turn a bike that needed a repair into cash despite the fact there was a customer willing to pay.
Yes, but, once they're on credit hold with the parts suppliers, it's not so easy to turn a repair into cash, even if they are competent.
If I couldn't get a part from the usual supplier I used to order it from bike-components.de or even walk into a friendly competitor and pay retail price. The money was in the labour not the parts and the objective get the bike out of the workshop and make the customer happy.
If I couldn't get a part from the usual supplier I used to order it from bike-components.de or even walk into a friendly competitor and pay retail price.
If the bike shop in question is running on fumes or is blacklisted by a supplier for non-payment / late payment, they may not have those options.
What the shop should have said was "we can't do this, we're on the verge of going under, please find somewhere else" but equally what they were probably thinking was that if they could just source the parts, they could make some money on the repair.
I think the lesson here is, don't leave your bike at a bike shop.
I think the lesson here is, don't leave your bike at a bike shop.
Or at least attach your own tag with name and number in a prominent position so that if it does get swept up in a liquidation, someone is more likely to work out whose it is or have to make a rather conscious decision to remove it! And if someone starts giving you excuses, go and pick it up, "so its not cluttering up their space".