[Closed] Bike Park Wales - Full face helmet

Full face. Wore a trail helmet first few times no problems but had a mate who is a fair bit quicker than me go face first into a tree stump on vicious valley. He was wearing a carbon full face and goggles and his face was still swollen and black and blue. No reason not to wear a full face on a new uplift day really. I also wear a back protector now too

Wore my FF on the 1st run both times I've been then went with the trail helmet for the rest of the day.
I just prefer the feel of riding without the FF. Gonna have to get used to it though as we're off to Revs next week and they are compulsory..

FF here.

Either. You wont be doing much peddling if you're in the uplift van. The trails themselves don't technically warrant it, but you'll not get overheated like you would if you wore one on a normal ride.

If you planning on REDs and above, yes.
If you've not been before think of trail grading being up a level.

There are so many crashes and the ground is so hard, I'd definitely recommend a full face. Plus you tend to be flying along at a good old rate of knots

No reason not to (wear full face) in my opinion

Full face for me. The speed your carrying through some sections, even on the Blues; is surprising.

FF if uplifting trail lid if not

Thanks all - full face it is. Not worn one before so will purchase and practice at greno with it.

We are uplifting for the day. Spending 3 days trail riding at and around Afan first so should have the eye by the time we get to BPW

I've seen a seven Idp m1 which looks reasonable - any one had that one?

It's worth it as you'll get faster and faster and it encourages you to hang it out a bit. Plus there are some jumps and drops that you'll want to not be hesitant over because you've got a regular helmet on (if that makes sense)

Nickc, the other option is....

It'll make you go faster than your skills should because you'll feel invincible!

😉

Personal choice, innit?

Smashed my face and chest into the ground really hard last time I was there. So glad I was wearing a FF, otherwise I'd be looking at a nasty dentist bill! The nature of the trails lets you progress, but inevitably that increases the likelihood of a crash. Wouldn't be without a FF on an uplift day.

BPW recommend FF and armour and I think it's sound advice.

Speeds are high, the ground is either rocky or full of ground level tree stumps, and there are more technical features involving air than you find on most 'normal trails'.

All of these things make the consequences of an off potentially more severe, let alone the 'gung-ho' factor involved in riding a place like that.

I go there to deliberately push at my limits, because it's a good place to practice. I expect to crash more often as a result.

I've been uplifting for the last few days, a couple of higher speed offs made me happy for the FF, one was bad decision on what was a nice lip to jump and the other was tiredness impacting my decision making. Not sure how many runs you get in at bpw but 25-30km down a hill is not like riding the same distance.

I prefer FF, Reds and Blacks are technical and rocky, Blues are blisteringly fast, I've seen the worst crashes on the blues - a torn off eye lid and a nasty looking concussion- same day, same trail, same run couple of hundred metres apart.

I've always just worn my open face, just because the full face is an extra thing to fit in the car. Perfectly happy with that but equally if I had my full face with me I'd be happy to wear that too. I'm definitely more likely to smash my face in on some sketchy tweed valley nonsense than at bpw though.

(I don't do the big jumps, mind)

Full face because falling off at those speeds with all the rocks they have lying around is bad news

But even with uplift if it's hot you'll get hot as the descents are quite pedally and physical

You can always change at lunchtime

FF for me. Spent 40 quid on a 661 Comp that only gets used there a couple of days a year but it's a bit more reassuring when everywhere you look is trees, stumps or rocks. Using the uplift you're never pedalling uphill for long and just taking my goggles off gets enough airflow for me.

My mate just regards it like normal trail riding and wears his regular open lid. He subscribes to the theory that he'd feel safer and thus take sillier risks if he wore one.

I've only ever worn my trail lid there, but friends I rode with always wear their FFs. It depends what you're more comfortable with.

I've ridden most of the trails there, from blue to black, and it's actually the 'easier' trails that lull you into a false sense of security, and you're more likely to crash on due to speed. Start off carefully on the blues, and then work your way up. Then by the end of the day wind down a bit, as you'll be tired and making mistakes. And remember - never say 'it's the last run of the day' 😉

The one and only time I've ever tried a FF I hated it due to constrained vision and hearing.

I do always wear armour for uplifts though - elbow/forearm pads, and knees pads. As falling off does hurt.

I always wear full face at BPW. The only time I don't want it is the pedally bit back to the uplift having done a hot run down Hotstepper by which point I'm honking.

If you're in the market for a new lid anyway, the Bell Super is one of those funky trail helmets with detachable chinbar, so ideal for occasional use and seemed to have a lot better airflow than the 661 Comp that I also bought at the same time for testing.

The trails themselves don't technically warrant it

Rational risk assessment. Incidence times severity. sounds like this place has a big pile of both so as much protection as you have seems sensible - so long as it doesn't make you write cheques you can't cash

Neck brace to go with your full face? I do think the two should go together really

Bet you never thought I would say that did you ?
🙂

rossburton - Member
If you're in the market for a new lid anyway, the Bell Super is one of those funky trail helmets with detachable chinbar, so ideal for occasional use and seemed to have a lot better airflow than the 661 Comp that I also bought at the same time for testing.

I think the nature of uplift days where you're constantly pushing yourself downhill makes full face a big consideration.

Last time I was at BPW I bought a full face helmet there and used it all day. Only thing is I swear I was probably going faster than I would have been in my normal lid as I felt safer!

Didn't help I was with 3 mates all using Strava to see who was quickest over the day using each persons quickest run per trail!

We only did the reds and blues as none of us would have been confident clearing the double at the start of one of the blacks. Therefore considered the blacks beyond our current level of skills. The blues and most reds can be very fast at BPW and there are plenty of drops on a couple of the reds.

Off to FOD for an uplift day in a couple of weeks time - from what I've read it isn't that hard but I think I'll full face and knee / shin pad that day too.

stevied - Member

Wore my FF on the 1st run both times I've been then went with the trail helmet for the rest of the day.
I just prefer the feel of riding without the FF.

FF. cost enough so nice to get some use out of it!

joebristol - Member

We only did the reds and blues as none of us would have been confident clearing the double at the start of one of the blacks.

That qualifier on Dai Hard's completely stupid tbh, there's nothing else on the trail like it so it's just putting people off for no reason.

If you don't have one yet, I'd consider one of the new enduro-friendly FF helmets.

I have a Met Parachute and it's much preferable to a DH helmet for pedaling.

Northwind - Member 
That qualifier on Dai Hard's completely stupid tbh, there's nothing else on the trail like it so it's just putting people off for no reason.

+1 this. Before all the qualifiers were added Dai Hard was one of the blacks I could actually cope with. A bit sketchy in parts but I could ride it and learn. Now I can't (without bypassing the qualifier).

Similar with Vicious Valley on the red. Never had issues with that. An easy red (if you don't branch off to A470 but that has its own qualifier). Yet a drop entrance on it that I've always had trouble with due to my major hang ups with drops I can't see over until the last second. Sure I know most here would say it's tiny, but I just have trouble with that one for some reason.

deadkenny - Member

Similar with Vicious Valley on the red. Never had issues with that. An easy red (if you don't branch off to A470 but that has its own qualifier). Yet a drop entrance on it that I've always had trouble with due to my major hang ups with drops I can't see over until the last second. Sure I know most here would say it's tiny, but I just have trouble with that one for some reason.

You just need to go for it. You cannot crash unless you go stupid slow. Which I once did, while looking the other way, OTB and broken collarbone...

I used to think that qualifier was daft but it is kind of justified now they've added a series of sizeable drop offs to the red at the bottom (Insufficient Funds?).

Agree Dai Hard qualifier is OTT for that particular trail but some of the other blacks are a bit full-on.

I might get chased out of here with a pitchfork, but I rode BPW last weekend with my Kask Rex Helmet (open face trail helmet) only. Rode mainly the reds and the blacks and I came away fine, however I think my lack of wearing helmets and pads stems from my years of BMX and also my self assumed level of bike control and skill.

I do agree with the above comment, as someone that has never worn a full face regularly I find the restriction of vision, hearing and weight of helmet off putting.

I do agree with the above comment, as someone that has never worn a full face regularly I find the restriction of vision, hearing and weight of helmet off putting.

chrispo - Member

You just need to go for it. You cannot crash unless you go stupid slow. Which I once did, while looking the other way, OTB and broken collarbone...

If you're trying to inspire confidence with that, I'm not sure you're succeeeding 🙂

Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off. Found that much worse. I think with the initial qualifier it's the fact it's a wooden platform that makes it seem more intimidating.

First couple of times I rode it in a trail helmet. Reds/blues/blacks from fireroad not from the top. Only had an old and heavy FF. Then bought a 661 part carbon one off SportPursuit for £60 as we were riding Antur. Used that twice at BPW this year (first time in absolutely shocking conditions) and while I agree it's a bit restrictive vision wise and hot if you're peddling back up from HotStepper I was glad to have it.

Not crashed with it yet (thankfully) and do feel a bit of a fraud as I'm not riding the big stuff on the blacks but always think if I crashed and smashed my face up with the FF in the car, how much of a chump am I going to feel then!

Borrowed a Bell Super a couple of times and found the weight/vision really good. Again didn't test the crash-a-bility!

The flip side of marginal reduced vision is focusing on where you need to be looking

I'm blessed (cursed?) with extremely good peripheral vision, and I find a FF blocking it annoying and distracting. Weirdly, I don't find the same issue with sunnies....might be they're just a strip rather than the whole side of you head?

I'm sure I could get used to it if I tried, but I tend to ride pretty fast downhill, and in 25+ years of biking never felt the need for one.

I have the Bell 2R and when riding down the trails at speed I'm too focused on the riding to notice the chin bar. Would take the pads out or remove the chin bar for big climbs, but for an uplift day it's no issue.

+1 on Dai hard qualifier. I bypass it, as I did with Pork belly and Cole not Dole the first time I rode them. Though I do those qualifiers now. Cole not Dole is probably the most representative of the actual trail, or the one on the second half of Insufficient funds.

Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off.

Think you're talking about the qualifier drop into Bonneyville. If you've done that the VV qualifier should be a piece of cake.

On the basis of this thread I've just bought my lad a switchable FF for our upcoming trip. He rode there before in an open face but I hadn't considered it might improve his confidence to go FF. I'm going to still go open face as the reds which is all I'll do are no harder than my usual rides.

I'm blessed (cursed?) with extremely good peripheral vision, and I find a FF blocking it annoying and distracting.

Due to my outstanding lack of skill, I wear FF there.

I don't think there is a qualifier(?) on Vicious Valley, but there certainly is on the entry to Boneyville. I seem to find that drop after the fire road a bit grim, unlike the drops on insufficient funds.

The qualifier into Dai hard has put me off the blacks, but that's something I want to work towards.

I do agree with the above comment, as someone that has never worn a full face regularly I find the restriction of vision, hearing and weight of helmet off putting.

Not as off-putting as being able to see your teeth with your mouth closed.

I don't think there is a qualifier(?) on Vicious Valley,

Small drop off the boardwalk.

but there certainly is on the entry to Boneyville. I seem to find that drop after the fire road a bit grim, unlike the drops on insufficient funds.

I agree. The landings are much cleaner on IF than the drop into BV.

Think you're talking about the qualifier drop into Bonneyville. If you've done that the VV qualifier should be a piece of cake.

Actually on re-reading that might come across as a bit flippant and cocky, not my intention. Just saying the the VV quali is easier than the BV quali, but understand sometimes how a particular feature can get into your head.

I had that with the Pork Belly qualifier, just couldn't commit to it, which kept niggling me. So having inspected it and chickened out on one trip, on a subsequent trip very shortly after with it fresh in my mind I just rode it without taking a look as that was putting me off.

joebristol - Member 
Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off. Found that much worse. I think with the initial qualifier it's the fact it's a wooden platform that makes it seem more intimidating.

Yeah, it's weird as the boulder drop (into Bonneyville) I've had no problem with but the wooden platform drop I do.

Bonneyville steep switchbacks on the other hand catch me out sometimes 😀

mark90 - Member 

I don't think there is a qualifier(?) on Vicious Valley,

Small drop off the boardwalk.

To some people they probably don't think it's anything at all, but to me it's something my brain says no. Don't know what it is about it. I've run up the boardwalk and instant I see the edge I'm seeing myself OTB. Done the sighting ahead and not down, but still have problems.

Bearing in mind I had a nasty accident with a drop (due to incompetent skills) some years back, although I have no memory of the incident I do get mental blocks on certain types of drops and might be related. That said, a drop in the wide open, with a clear view of the run out and no distractions (trees/rocks etc), and I can cope with them, if not too huge.

And yeah, I've been to see Jedi. Didn't really have issues with his drops and some drops I can do fine, just some I have more of an issue with. Particularly if I can't see the landing until I'm on the lip.

Not as off-putting as being able to see your teeth with your mouth closed.

I don't want this to turn into an anti FF argument, as I always wear a helmet, and you should always wear whatever you feel comfortable with.
However, in 25 years or so of crashing, I've managed to hit most body parts multiple times, sustained some lovely bruising and cuts (never broken anything though), broken/dented the tops of a few helmets, but never actually hit the ground with my lower face.
Luck? Maybe, but I'm also quite 'good' at crashing, and tend to tuck and roll. Might be from BMXing as a teen. But you quickly learn to not put out your arms, tuck your chin in, and relax into the hit!

As I'm currently on a bike trip and hanging out watching a rap film.

Think about your neck and think about the weight and increased leverage when you hit your head on the ground with a FF helmet and consider using a neck brace as well

IMO the two should be used together as altho a FF may increase the protection to your face anecdotally they also increase the risk to your neck

joebristol - Member

Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off. Found that much worse.

There's nothing on vicious valley itself that doesn't roll- I've a feeling that like Mark90 said you're thinking of the entrance to Bonneyville which has a rock feature right off the road, but I've seen that rolled too. One of the blacks has a definitely mandatory rock drop entry, pork belly?

The thing about the vicious valley quali (apart from dubious appropriateness) is the woodwork- it's not that it's anything hard really, it just freaks people out. I bet a lot of people who don't like it wouldn't fuss at an equivalent rock step. The audience probably doesn't help 😆

But the one on Dai Hard is just daft. It's like they accidentally built it on the wrong trail

IMO the two should be used together as altho a FF may increase the protection to your face anecdotally they also increase the risk to your neck

Agreed mike - you pays your money and takes your chances but I think this is something worth thinking about.

So you have to balance up smashed face V neck break v smashed collarbones without any proper data on how likely each is

Which is why I put " think about"

Do some DH events not now insist on neck braces?

You've also got to factor in "damn fools wandering around wearing neck braces and no helmets", people fitting them wrong, and there's got to be a deterrant effect too (it's an extra bit of bollocks to deal with basically, there's not many occasions where i wear my fullface but there's even less where I'd wear it [i]and[/i] a neck brace- short frequent uplifts like FOD, or pushing up where it's yet another thing to carry)

Considering the lack of real evidence here and all the hygiene factors I think it's always likely to be an unknowable.

Never heard of any races requiring a neck brace, not to say it doesn't happen though.

Regarding VV:
It's weird as in my mind there's only one 'item' on that whole run and that's the drop into Boneyville. I can't picture the wooden drop at all. There's a nifty drop into A470 from what I recall....

All this talk is making me impatient to get there again!!

Vicious valley qualifier.....

[img] [/img]

Not sure when the pic was taken* (first hit on google) but I'd say landing is possibly a bit more built up now.

Rider's eye view....

[img] [/img]

Edit: * 2015 it would seem

The thing about the vicious valley quali (apart from dubious appropriateness) is the woodwork- it's not that it's anything hard really, it just freaks people out. I bet a lot of people who don't like it wouldn't fuss at an equivalent rock step. The audience probably doesn't help

One trip I just got an odd mental block doing it, no idea why. Was fine on visits before and managed it later in the day fine too.

Haven't seen it discussed here, but BPW are adding "plus" grading to some trails with more jumps and drops at the higher end of the grade, so A470 and the redone Insufficient Funds are now "red plus", and they have a new "blue plus" trail.

That's weird, then as I recognise it but I don't even notice that start drop on VV! Shame I can't be that non-plussed about other drops!

Now you've pointed it out, I'll get all freaked out no doubt! 😕

"Plus" trails? Are they having a laugh or do you need at least 2.8in tyres to ride them?

At the moment the '+' just indicates if it's a trail that requires jumpy/drop skills. Which is handy as looking at the ones they've marked, they're all the ones I'd have most difficulty with.

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/trails - scroll down to see which are marked '+'

Though A470 was rollable, not counting the qualifier, but then been some time since I was there last and they've now got that line with gaps and stuff, but think it's optional.

Potty Ping being a '+' blue. New one to me. Any good?

@mark90 - people had said VV drop-in had been raised, but all pictures of if after look like the one you posted, and that's plenty big enough to freak me out.

I know what you mean about the VV qualifier; there's not much run-up then it just drops to nowhere. Plus the audience factor. To be honest the first time I did it I had to wait until everyone else had gone 🙂 After that it was fine obvs. I actually found the qualifier to A470 a bit sketchier as it's quite narrow. In contrast the qualifiers to Cole not Dole & Bonneville were fine even though they are bigger.

Assuming you have the skills (have done other similar sized drops, etc) you just have to crack on & ride them without thinking about it too much as you'll psyche yourself out otherwise.

The extra line on the A470 is a black plus trail, don't go that way and it's no harder than before.

Popty Ping is very new, was there on the 10th and didn't see any signage for it - looks to be off Terry's Belly, similar starting place to Hotstepper.

I guess it's all relative. I have never used a FF there, just haven't felt the need. I will ride all the trails and my usual riding involves jumps, gaps, drops, etc, so don't find it intimidating.

The squirrel catchers obviously serve a purpose - if people are worried to hit them, it will provoke the right thoughts about ability to ride the trail at a competent level (i.e. not a liability to themselves or others).

deadkenny - Member
Similar with Vicious Valley on the red. Never had issues with that. An easy red (if you don't branch off to A470 but that has its own qualifier). Yet a drop entrance on it that I've always had trouble with due to my major hang ups with drops I can't see over until the last second. Sure I know most here would say it's tiny, but I just have trouble with that one for some reason.

I'm exactly the same. On my two visits so far I have absolutely been unable to do that drop off the wooden platform. The rocky stuff at the entrance to Bonneyville is no problem for me though, but that's rollable. The mandatory air requirement and the abrupt edge to the Vicious Valley qualifier give me a massive case of "nope".

I don't have a full face helmet so I've worn an open face helmet for my visits. Most of the trails I've ridden there haven't felt any more dangerous than those at say Glentress. That doesn't mean they don't deserve respect and care, but just because you get an uplift to the top of them doesn't automatically mean the trails are unusually dangerous. Then again I too avoid the jump lines.

On the FF, the main thing I find is it shuts off a lot of sounds and feels more enclosed but does give me confidence because of that. I don't really think about the risk of smashing the face up with or without, it's just the enclosed feel that oddly adds confidence. Also I find I can mainly just hear the wheels rolling which sounds quite cool 😀

Though I broke my fingers once at BPW with an OTB & hands out into a drop (not the quali 😀 ), and had also impacted the chin guard on the FF and that was a non-issue. It might have been a smashed up chin otherwise.

To me a lot of protection in MTB is more about reducing the cuts and bruises rather than any life saving ability.

All said, I'd happily ride BPW with a regular lid. Maybe just with a little more caution.

Dai Hard gap jump tutorial - exactly how not to do it:

Oh my days. It takes some skill to mess up a jump to that level when it's only the length of a bike in the first place.

Popty ping was opened on the 16th. We were on the first bus up after the trail building guys came down and said it was open.

It's like a mini A470 jump line, tables and berms, all rollable. It's a good fun line. Very bike parky if you like that sort of thing. The size of the jumps more attainable to more people than the A470 ones, so good for learning/progression.

The + seems to be the more bike park style jumpy trails. Though Popty ping and A470 are all rollable.

Popty Ping

Hob Nob - Member 
Oh my days. It takes some skill to mess up a jump to that level when it's only the length of a bike in the first place.

My kind of skill 😀

Good video though. Great angle for analysing what went wrong.

Why is BPW seen as different to any other trail centre? Just seemed like a normal trail centre to me with the grades (red and below) being consistent to any other I've been to.

I wear a FF as the speeds are higher than most other trail centres especially the blues!, Sixtapod is eye wateringly fast when fully attacked, and another lower down with the floaty fast jumps can get daft. The one off to the left at the top (forgot its name) through the trees is another one. The red and blacks slow you down a bit as they aren't as pumpable.

I wear a carbon Troy Lee as I reckon my head is worth whatever price they cost.

edenvalleyboy - Member 
Why is BPW seen as different to any other trail centre? Just seemed like a normal trail centre to me with the grades (red and below) being consistent to any other I've been to.

Because its a bike park, with emphasis on downhill and bike park style features, not pedalling (although there is some). No uplifts at Afan etc, no long pedal climbs (ignoring the optional long pedal climb at BPW 😉 ). The trails are shorter and downhill in the main with features.

Red grading is a step above most reds at trail centre I know, at least in England and Wales. Blacks are definitely a level above generally. Most trail centre blacks are based more on effort/distance than the technical nature of it. The features on some of the reds are less frequent or not to be found on reds of most trail centres.

Noting I can't comment on Scottish trail centres as I've never tried them.

BPW is distinguished again from DH venues though. While again uplifted, they are purely focused on downhill. Typically you wouldn't take a full on DH rig to BPW as it would be hard work on the sections you do have to pedal. Likewise though a hard tail would be hard going at BPW (though not unheard of).

p.s. compare Swinley and Haldon grading to BPW 😉

Gosh, is it bad that I don't like those kids on the popty ping video already?

The three times ( not at BPW) I've landed on my face then the bike has hit me on the back of my head, I've chuckled inside a full face helmet.
The 2 times I've hit face first in a normal lid, really hurt and pee'd me off.

Always wear a FF at BPW, simply because it's an uplift so why not? When I pad up and put on a FF it means it's a play day, not a training day. Whoopee!

Popty Ping looks fun.

Have they built up the drop into Bonneyville recently? When I was there last, it definitely wasn't rollable. That was late last year.

From last year (mate riding, me taking pics)

top of VV:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/18703345881_686b73469f_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/18703345881_686b73469f_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/uuKx7H ]Bike Park Wales[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/ ]Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

Top of BV:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/359/18696021752_8bc5d13d59_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/359/18696021752_8bc5d13d59_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/uu6ZUC ]Bike Park Wales[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/ ]Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

BV is the same (or it was when I rode it a couple of weeks ago). I tend not to stop before the fireroad so I have the speed to clear it. The day that pic was taken a lad had bust his collarbone trying to roll it.

The top of VV tho, I think they've built it up now with a dirt ramp under the wood at the end.

I'd have said that the BV drop is more washed out than that now. There's a slight gully washing out just left of center. Dropping to the right is a smaller drop but can push you wide into the the left hander.

Not looked closely at VV, but pretty sure it's smaller than that now. Going off it looks like it should be rollable, though I haven't tried.

That blue bit top left doesn't look familiar though 😉