[Closed] Bike Park Wales - Full face helmet

I do agree with the above comment, as someone that has never worn a full face regularly I find the restriction of vision, hearing and weight of helmet off putting.

Not as off-putting as being able to see your teeth with your mouth closed.

I don't think there is a qualifier(?) on Vicious Valley,

Small drop off the boardwalk.

but there certainly is on the entry to Boneyville. I seem to find that drop after the fire road a bit grim, unlike the drops on insufficient funds.

I agree. The landings are much cleaner on IF than the drop into BV.

Think you're talking about the qualifier drop into Bonneyville. If you've done that the VV qualifier should be a piece of cake.

Actually on re-reading that might come across as a bit flippant and cocky, not my intention. Just saying the the VV quali is easier than the BV quali, but understand sometimes how a particular feature can get into your head.

I had that with the Pork Belly qualifier, just couldn't commit to it, which kept niggling me. So having inspected it and chickened out on one trip, on a subsequent trip very shortly after with it fresh in my mind I just rode it without taking a look as that was putting me off.

joebristol - Member 
Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off. Found that much worse. I think with the initial qualifier it's the fact it's a wooden platform that makes it seem more intimidating.

Yeah, it's weird as the boulder drop (into Bonneyville) I've had no problem with but the wooden platform drop I do.

Bonneyville steep switchbacks on the other hand catch me out sometimes 😀

mark90 - Member 

I don't think there is a qualifier(?) on Vicious Valley,

Small drop off the boardwalk.

To some people they probably don't think it's anything at all, but to me it's something my brain says no. Don't know what it is about it. I've run up the boardwalk and instant I see the edge I'm seeing myself OTB. Done the sighting ahead and not down, but still have problems.

Bearing in mind I had a nasty accident with a drop (due to incompetent skills) some years back, although I have no memory of the incident I do get mental blocks on certain types of drops and might be related. That said, a drop in the wide open, with a clear view of the run out and no distractions (trees/rocks etc), and I can cope with them, if not too huge.

And yeah, I've been to see Jedi. Didn't really have issues with his drops and some drops I can do fine, just some I have more of an issue with. Particularly if I can't see the landing until I'm on the lip.

Not as off-putting as being able to see your teeth with your mouth closed.

I don't want this to turn into an anti FF argument, as I always wear a helmet, and you should always wear whatever you feel comfortable with.
However, in 25 years or so of crashing, I've managed to hit most body parts multiple times, sustained some lovely bruising and cuts (never broken anything though), broken/dented the tops of a few helmets, but never actually hit the ground with my lower face.
Luck? Maybe, but I'm also quite 'good' at crashing, and tend to tuck and roll. Might be from BMXing as a teen. But you quickly learn to not put out your arms, tuck your chin in, and relax into the hit!

As I'm currently on a bike trip and hanging out watching a rap film.

Think about your neck and think about the weight and increased leverage when you hit your head on the ground with a FF helmet and consider using a neck brace as well

IMO the two should be used together as altho a FF may increase the protection to your face anecdotally they also increase the risk to your neck

joebristol - Member

Vicious valley has much worse drop offs further down it than the qualifier. I'm sure there's a bit where you cross a fire track and there's a big boulder type thing you have to drop off. Found that much worse.

There's nothing on vicious valley itself that doesn't roll- I've a feeling that like Mark90 said you're thinking of the entrance to Bonneyville which has a rock feature right off the road, but I've seen that rolled too. One of the blacks has a definitely mandatory rock drop entry, pork belly?

The thing about the vicious valley quali (apart from dubious appropriateness) is the woodwork- it's not that it's anything hard really, it just freaks people out. I bet a lot of people who don't like it wouldn't fuss at an equivalent rock step. The audience probably doesn't help 😆

But the one on Dai Hard is just daft. It's like they accidentally built it on the wrong trail

IMO the two should be used together as altho a FF may increase the protection to your face anecdotally they also increase the risk to your neck

Agreed mike - you pays your money and takes your chances but I think this is something worth thinking about.

So you have to balance up smashed face V neck break v smashed collarbones without any proper data on how likely each is

Which is why I put " think about"

Do some DH events not now insist on neck braces?

You've also got to factor in "damn fools wandering around wearing neck braces and no helmets", people fitting them wrong, and there's got to be a deterrant effect too (it's an extra bit of bollocks to deal with basically, there's not many occasions where i wear my fullface but there's even less where I'd wear it [i]and[/i] a neck brace- short frequent uplifts like FOD, or pushing up where it's yet another thing to carry)

Considering the lack of real evidence here and all the hygiene factors I think it's always likely to be an unknowable.

Never heard of any races requiring a neck brace, not to say it doesn't happen though.

Regarding VV:
It's weird as in my mind there's only one 'item' on that whole run and that's the drop into Boneyville. I can't picture the wooden drop at all. There's a nifty drop into A470 from what I recall....

All this talk is making me impatient to get there again!!

Vicious valley qualifier.....

[img] [/img]

Not sure when the pic was taken* (first hit on google) but I'd say landing is possibly a bit more built up now.

Rider's eye view....

[img] [/img]

Edit: * 2015 it would seem

The thing about the vicious valley quali (apart from dubious appropriateness) is the woodwork- it's not that it's anything hard really, it just freaks people out. I bet a lot of people who don't like it wouldn't fuss at an equivalent rock step. The audience probably doesn't help

One trip I just got an odd mental block doing it, no idea why. Was fine on visits before and managed it later in the day fine too.

Haven't seen it discussed here, but BPW are adding "plus" grading to some trails with more jumps and drops at the higher end of the grade, so A470 and the redone Insufficient Funds are now "red plus", and they have a new "blue plus" trail.

That's weird, then as I recognise it but I don't even notice that start drop on VV! Shame I can't be that non-plussed about other drops!

Now you've pointed it out, I'll get all freaked out no doubt! 😕

"Plus" trails? Are they having a laugh or do you need at least 2.8in tyres to ride them?

At the moment the '+' just indicates if it's a trail that requires jumpy/drop skills. Which is handy as looking at the ones they've marked, they're all the ones I'd have most difficulty with.

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/trails - scroll down to see which are marked '+'

Though A470 was rollable, not counting the qualifier, but then been some time since I was there last and they've now got that line with gaps and stuff, but think it's optional.

Potty Ping being a '+' blue. New one to me. Any good?

@mark90 - people had said VV drop-in had been raised, but all pictures of if after look like the one you posted, and that's plenty big enough to freak me out.

I know what you mean about the VV qualifier; there's not much run-up then it just drops to nowhere. Plus the audience factor. To be honest the first time I did it I had to wait until everyone else had gone 🙂 After that it was fine obvs. I actually found the qualifier to A470 a bit sketchier as it's quite narrow. In contrast the qualifiers to Cole not Dole & Bonneville were fine even though they are bigger.

Assuming you have the skills (have done other similar sized drops, etc) you just have to crack on & ride them without thinking about it too much as you'll psyche yourself out otherwise.

The extra line on the A470 is a black plus trail, don't go that way and it's no harder than before.

Popty Ping is very new, was there on the 10th and didn't see any signage for it - looks to be off Terry's Belly, similar starting place to Hotstepper.

I guess it's all relative. I have never used a FF there, just haven't felt the need. I will ride all the trails and my usual riding involves jumps, gaps, drops, etc, so don't find it intimidating.

The squirrel catchers obviously serve a purpose - if people are worried to hit them, it will provoke the right thoughts about ability to ride the trail at a competent level (i.e. not a liability to themselves or others).

deadkenny - Member
Similar with Vicious Valley on the red. Never had issues with that. An easy red (if you don't branch off to A470 but that has its own qualifier). Yet a drop entrance on it that I've always had trouble with due to my major hang ups with drops I can't see over until the last second. Sure I know most here would say it's tiny, but I just have trouble with that one for some reason.

I'm exactly the same. On my two visits so far I have absolutely been unable to do that drop off the wooden platform. The rocky stuff at the entrance to Bonneyville is no problem for me though, but that's rollable. The mandatory air requirement and the abrupt edge to the Vicious Valley qualifier give me a massive case of "nope".

I don't have a full face helmet so I've worn an open face helmet for my visits. Most of the trails I've ridden there haven't felt any more dangerous than those at say Glentress. That doesn't mean they don't deserve respect and care, but just because you get an uplift to the top of them doesn't automatically mean the trails are unusually dangerous. Then again I too avoid the jump lines.

On the FF, the main thing I find is it shuts off a lot of sounds and feels more enclosed but does give me confidence because of that. I don't really think about the risk of smashing the face up with or without, it's just the enclosed feel that oddly adds confidence. Also I find I can mainly just hear the wheels rolling which sounds quite cool 😀

Though I broke my fingers once at BPW with an OTB & hands out into a drop (not the quali 😀 ), and had also impacted the chin guard on the FF and that was a non-issue. It might have been a smashed up chin otherwise.

To me a lot of protection in MTB is more about reducing the cuts and bruises rather than any life saving ability.

All said, I'd happily ride BPW with a regular lid. Maybe just with a little more caution.

Dai Hard gap jump tutorial - exactly how not to do it:

Oh my days. It takes some skill to mess up a jump to that level when it's only the length of a bike in the first place.

Popty ping was opened on the 16th. We were on the first bus up after the trail building guys came down and said it was open.

It's like a mini A470 jump line, tables and berms, all rollable. It's a good fun line. Very bike parky if you like that sort of thing. The size of the jumps more attainable to more people than the A470 ones, so good for learning/progression.

The + seems to be the more bike park style jumpy trails. Though Popty ping and A470 are all rollable.

Popty Ping

Hob Nob - Member 
Oh my days. It takes some skill to mess up a jump to that level when it's only the length of a bike in the first place.

My kind of skill 😀

Good video though. Great angle for analysing what went wrong.

Why is BPW seen as different to any other trail centre? Just seemed like a normal trail centre to me with the grades (red and below) being consistent to any other I've been to.

I wear a FF as the speeds are higher than most other trail centres especially the blues!, Sixtapod is eye wateringly fast when fully attacked, and another lower down with the floaty fast jumps can get daft. The one off to the left at the top (forgot its name) through the trees is another one. The red and blacks slow you down a bit as they aren't as pumpable.

I wear a carbon Troy Lee as I reckon my head is worth whatever price they cost.

edenvalleyboy - Member 
Why is BPW seen as different to any other trail centre? Just seemed like a normal trail centre to me with the grades (red and below) being consistent to any other I've been to.

Because its a bike park, with emphasis on downhill and bike park style features, not pedalling (although there is some). No uplifts at Afan etc, no long pedal climbs (ignoring the optional long pedal climb at BPW 😉 ). The trails are shorter and downhill in the main with features.

Red grading is a step above most reds at trail centre I know, at least in England and Wales. Blacks are definitely a level above generally. Most trail centre blacks are based more on effort/distance than the technical nature of it. The features on some of the reds are less frequent or not to be found on reds of most trail centres.

Noting I can't comment on Scottish trail centres as I've never tried them.

BPW is distinguished again from DH venues though. While again uplifted, they are purely focused on downhill. Typically you wouldn't take a full on DH rig to BPW as it would be hard work on the sections you do have to pedal. Likewise though a hard tail would be hard going at BPW (though not unheard of).

p.s. compare Swinley and Haldon grading to BPW 😉

Gosh, is it bad that I don't like those kids on the popty ping video already?

The three times ( not at BPW) I've landed on my face then the bike has hit me on the back of my head, I've chuckled inside a full face helmet.
The 2 times I've hit face first in a normal lid, really hurt and pee'd me off.

Always wear a FF at BPW, simply because it's an uplift so why not? When I pad up and put on a FF it means it's a play day, not a training day. Whoopee!

Popty Ping looks fun.

Have they built up the drop into Bonneyville recently? When I was there last, it definitely wasn't rollable. That was late last year.

From last year (mate riding, me taking pics)

top of VV:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/18703345881_686b73469f_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/18703345881_686b73469f_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/uuKx7H ]Bike Park Wales[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/ ]Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

Top of BV:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/359/18696021752_8bc5d13d59_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/359/18696021752_8bc5d13d59_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/uu6ZUC ]Bike Park Wales[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/ ]Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

BV is the same (or it was when I rode it a couple of weeks ago). I tend not to stop before the fireroad so I have the speed to clear it. The day that pic was taken a lad had bust his collarbone trying to roll it.

The top of VV tho, I think they've built it up now with a dirt ramp under the wood at the end.

I'd have said that the BV drop is more washed out than that now. There's a slight gully washing out just left of center. Dropping to the right is a smaller drop but can push you wide into the the left hander.

Not looked closely at VV, but pretty sure it's smaller than that now. Going off it looks like it should be rollable, though I haven't tried.

That blue bit top left doesn't look familiar though 😉

It was summer 🙂 Last time I went the red section of that trail that leads into bonnyville was shut so I didn't ride it (instead having a whale of a time seeing how fast I dared ride the open section on blue belle) but the time before I did. I don't remember it being that washed out as it was absolutely chucking it down and freezing cold.

I always just head for the middle of it as I far too much of a idiot to be able to adjust my line in time for that corner...

For anyone who's been to see Jedi, how do those drops compare to the gradually increasing sized drops that Tony has?

Going on my limited experience looking at the photos above, that first drop off into VV has def been built up now. Would say its probably easily rollable now. The start of BV def isn't rollable and as said above in wet weather the slight gully on landing to the left freaked me out a bit to start with, despite easily doing bigger drops on local trails.

blitz - Member
For anyone who's been to see Jedi, how do those drops compare to the gradually increasing sized drops that Tony has?

Assuming we are talking about the ones on the exposed part of the field, there is no prep time like there is at Tony's.

In terms of height most stuff at BPW is the same height.

The bigger drops are on the blacks

I far too much of a idiot to be able to adjust my line in time for that corner...

I may have "off pisted" a little bit on that corner occasionally 😳

VV > BV > IF is still my favourite run down though.

This is the drop going in to Bonneville, i'm the slow one at the back that managed to roll it.

That Dai Hard qualifier annoys the hell out of me - I'll be the first to admit that gap jumps are my weakest skill but that trail has no other non-rollable gaps and it's probably my favourite trail at BPW. I end up skipping around the qualifier and then ride the trail fast enough to frequently catch other riders.

All the other qualifiers make sense, if I can ride them fine I can ride the trail fine - just need to not stop when I reach Pork Belly or Coal Not Dole because if I'm mid-flow I'm fine with those drops but from a standing start my brain tends to interfere.

Am looking forwards to Poppety Ping - have never been comfy with the angles of the tables on A470, it's a bit too dirt jumper for my meagre skills.

I suspect the most dangerous trails are the swoopy fast blues, especially late in the day when you're getting tired. Speeds get very high and crashes could be nasty. I'm much happier wearing a full-face when I'm doing that much fast descending in one day.

This is the drop going in to Bonneville, i'm the slow one at the back that managed to roll it.

I suspect the most dangerous trails are the swoopy fast blues, especially late in the day when you're getting tired.

Not been since last Oct, have they built up the landing now? No way I would've tried to roll it last time I was there. Looks a lot easier from that vid but could just be the angle?

I don't know, that was last October when I was there, I think one side of the drop was lower than the other side, but I wouldn't recommend rolling it I think I probably got lucky!

I suspect the most dangerous trails are the swoopy fast blues, especially late in the day when you're getting tired.

Nothing hard about these two, first was just misjudging and the second was bad decision making when knackered at the end of the day.