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My legs/knees/feet aren't the best aligned. I've dealt with one of the problems via physio (weak hip flexor, particularly on one side).
Next I was thinking about getting cleats set up properly (wedges etc more than position) and/or orthotics for arch support. I ride Time ATAC on both my road bikes and mountain (sometimes ride flats).
I've been riding bikes long enough, and had enough knowledgable people comment, that I'm not convinced a traditional bike fit is going to change much - and other than a knee pain and hot spots on my feet I don't get any other pain when riding.
Reading around I ended up on The Bike Whisperer's site. Their bike fit seems to be mainly around shoe and cleat fitting (which makes a lot of sense) but it's also £300 while a REtul bike fit locally is half that.
Have other people got real benefit from bike and cleat fits? If you're confidant about the fit are orthotics (at about £100) the answer. Do road cleats need much more sets up than ATACs (I've never felt the need for them - even for the odd century being able to walk in shoes seems more useful than absolute power output)
Did you do any of what I suggested in your previous thread?
David
Physio identified very weak hip flexors (particularly on one side) so have been doing exercises to address this. Single leg squats are now a lot more stable without knee dipping in to any thing like the same extent.
Tight hips as well so working on loosening those up. Oher stretching was happening anyway.
Have mainly been riding flats for the last few months but, because pins don't let food rotate like ATACS do through the pedal stroke got more knee pain. Also noticed i tended to have my right foot further out from the crank than the left (which partly got me wondering about bike fit - do I need pedal axle extenders?)
Saddle height - i doubt it, if anything right now (switched back to cleats from flats) it was too low on the last ride. Pretty sure I normally run at a height that doesn't imbalance hips but could be wrong.
Arches - probably dont have enough support hence thinking about orthotics.
Steve Hogg page took me to the Bike Whisperer
Weak hip flexors; wouldn't have thought it'd made much difference TBH. I mean how strong are they meant to be? You don't really use them for cycling anyway (unless you're one of these people who claims to pull up during the pedals stroke). I guess they tighten up if you're sitting at a desk funny though.
I'd have thought knee dipping inwards would be due to your arch flattening out. Probs caused by tight adductors (groin?) and tight/weak abductors (glutes/tfl?)
Thing is though, a tight/weak muscle in one spot will probably cause a ripple effect and all your other muscles will start doing odd stuff to compensate. THat's why it's worth stretching everything.
Right foot further out? Probably high arch/bowed leg on that side? Or your saddle is perhaps too low.
Sounds like you're struggling to sit square on the saddle.
If there's anyone who can sort you out, I'd say it'd be the bike whisperer.
Thing is with Atac pedals, you can only put one wedge under the cleat, which'd be fine if that's all you need. He'll probably wedge your heels to some extent anyway.
I've found each little bit you do adds incremental improvement to any problems you have, with no magical silver bullet.
Orthotics / cleat fit / pedal technique / yoga / pilates / foam rolling all help in combination.
I let the London Podiatry Centre do my custom hard orthotic which worked a treat, which I swap between shoes. I took these to Cadence for shoe / cleat fit. They will do a cleat fit minus the bike for only £20 to make sure angles are right based on muscle flexibility / pronation etc. Sandro at Crystal Palace did a solid job on mine.
Haven't tried the full bike fit yet - be good to hear if anyone else has what their experience was like.
I'd say have the cheaper bike fit and advise Speedplay pedals for the road bike. Plenty of adjustment well worth the investment. Not much in the way of sideway adjustment on the Time, I'd say possibly road cleat position is a bit more critical than MTB as it's more dynamic
Go to cyclefit in Covent Garden, I get my clear wedges from there or you could go the hog and get the cleats and wedge/shim fitted too.
Weak hip flexors; wouldn't have thought it'd made much difference TBH
Maybe not that. Muscle at back of butt anyway (glute?) . Have been doing side leg raises and single leg squats to work it. As it has got stronger my knee doesn't dip like it did before.
Right foot further out? Probably high arch/bowed leg on that side? .
It's the ankle I broke so likely the same root as the weak muscle.
Bike Whisperer really knows his stuff. Shoe is a part of the fit but you get a lot more than that. Takes the best part of a day. 300 quid is pretty cheap for a day of someone's time who's as well respected in his field, has been doing it longer than anyone, and has seen just about everything there is to see.
Paton -
Thanks for the links but which do you actually think are relevant? There's nothing in that Telegraph piece for a start. The sky piece likewise (knee doesn't need to track so don't worry UNLESS YOU HAVE PAIN). Book looks good - bought. Video - that looks like the problem I had which physio is helping.
I've been riding long enough to have read and tried lots of things but I think I've got as far as I can with self-diagnosis because it's not possible to see your own position.
Sorry as I have just skim -read this post ..
With regard to orthotics ..the NHS have very good orthotics department which won't cost you anything for an appointment .
I have changed to an oval chairing which has helped with regard to knee pain ..dont know if you have tried either ?
I also use Time Atac carbon pedals ..and wouldn't change to any other .
I've been riding long enough to have read and tried lots of things but I think I've got as far as I can with self-diagnosis because it's not possible to see your own position.
spend the money.
i see this on all the physio threads, self diagnosis, anecdotal evidence. “move your saddle back” “fit a longer stem” “tweak the cleats back a bit”
just spend the money and see somebody who does this day in day out and will see what needs to be done.
me, i had sidas footbeds done at Sigma, and a couple of sessions at Crystal palace sports injury clinic to sort a similar issue as yourself.
not having ago at you but people are quite happy to spend on bike bling but not the fundamentals that keep you cycling. Contact points: saddle, bars, shorts, gloves, pedals and shoes and a fit/position that is free of issues.
go and have a look at cycle fit and see if you think they can help.
Mrs Yak had a fitting at Vankru and came away with shimmed and angled cleat wedges to correct the imbalances, along with all the usual tweaks to the bike and position. She was much better afterwards, so I would suggest paying to get this done properly instead of mucking about with orthotics yourself.
Messed with cleat position and saddle height this morning and quickly reminded myself why I started this thread. c20 years has got me as far as I'm going to get myself.
MrSmith - why CycleFit rather than Sigma/Cadence/CrystalPalace?
IF you think orthotics may help but dont want to splash the cash maybe just go and see a podiatrist (sp?)?
I went to see one after a bike fit suggested it as my knnes were dipping inward too much. podiatrist measured my feet angles and then just fitted foam wedges under my insoles. £20 and my knee was less inward moving and pain went. Obviously anecdotal and my just have been lucky chance but maybe worth a shot as cheap.
EDIT. there used to be some spd shoes which had pockets under the forefoot you could slide wedges in but I can't rmebmer what they were. I'd like to get some as my current shoes are collapsing if anyone knows?
EDIT. there used to be some spd shoes which had pockets under the forefoot you could slide wedges in but I can't rmebmer what they were. I'd like to get some as my current shoes are collapsing if anyone knows?
I've used Specialized insoles for years to replace really poor Shimano etc - they come with some forefoot wedges (and Spec shoes have 1.5mm of angle built in) but all advice is danagerous to mess with this if you don't know what your'e doing.