I currently have a small whippet that I use for XC stuff, problem is I am not sure if it's actually a bit small for me. I have a long torso and short legs and come in at just under 5ft 8, I have a long stem at the moment but constantly feel like I have a load of weight on my hands when riding. The seat is as far back on the rails as it can go and I am wondering if a layback post could help or whether I just have the wrong sized frame.
any thoughts?
Got any pics?
How much seatpost is showing? If it's a lot then you could well be better off on the next size up, I'm guessing your not close enough to the on one showroom to go fling a leg over one.
But in my general non expert opinion of your on the limits (seat rails/stem) and it's still not right then the bike is probably the wrong size.
What he said.
Bugger!
Reasonable amount of seatpost showing probably could go more to get full leg stretch but it accentuates the weight on bar problem so I keep as low as I can
Layback post can make a big difference to how a bike feels.
[img] 
[/img]
16" 18" 20"
A Head Angle (°) 70 70 70
B Head Tube Length (mm) 105 105 120
C Effective Top Tube Horizontal (mm) 589 602 615
D Seat Angle (°) 73 73 73
E
Seat Tube Length Centre to Top (mm)
406 457 508
F Chainstay Length (mm) 425 425 425
G Standover Height (mm) 716 747 775
H Stack (mm) 538 538 553
I Reach (mm) 425 438 446
Rough guess numbers suggest 50mm longer seat tube gives you 13mm in effective top tube
Too many Variables, photos would help. Reach that your comfortable with is key. It might just be a wrong one for you but the perfect bike for someone else? Keep tweaking.
How about changing the way you ride? Do you weight the front wheel for grip but with elbows out to pump the trail?
Photos would help indeed but only if I had a way of getting me onto here. Other than the pain in the bum that is Flickr I know no other way of getting pics up n here 🙁
There's also photobucket (similar to Flickr, has an easy to use mobile app) or google drive i think can also hot-link from.
Seat back and long stem = more weight on hands.
My bike was set up like this as in my head it was too short.
Tried a significantly shorter stem as I was finding it a handful to ride twisty stuff, obv I am slightly more upright now but this shifts weight from your hands to your backside and the bike doesn't actually feel any shorter.
Interesting thought spooky, I thnk I might have a shorter stem lying around somewhere, will give it a try.
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[img] http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/Caffinefree1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/E1AFF46C-FEB8-40B4-B8EE-D554B16CBF49_zpsfaffk4eg.jpg.html ][IMG] http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/Caffinefree1/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/E1AFF46C-FEB8-40B4-B8EE-D554B16CBF49_zpsfaffk4eg.jp g" target="_blank">http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/Caffinefree1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/E1AFF46C-FEB8-40B4-B8EE-D554B16CBF49_zpsfaffk4eg.jpg.html ][IMG] http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a589/Caffinefree1/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/E1AFF46C-FEB8-40B4-B8EE-D554B16CBF49_zpsfaffk4eg.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]
Thanks Dave that was so much easier than Flickr
If you change to a layback seat post you may find that your CoG changes and you won't feel 'with' the bike. I would say though that you need the next size, sorry.
I'm similar proportions to you (Long torso and short legs) and same height, and often face the frame size dilemma of going small or medium as I tend to be on border of both. I have managed to make both work, but a small frame tends to feel more playful.
Looking at your photo, your ankle looks slightly dropped. Personally I ride a little more toe down, so you may want to consider popping the saddle up a bit? With the seattube angle you wouldn't then need to pop the saddle further back.
Shorter stem and wider bars?
saddle looks a bit low.
Bike not obviously too wee though, or short IMO.
Seat up, longer stem and wider bars.
[quote=cynic-al ]saddle looks a bit low.
Bike not obviously too wee though, or short IMO.
That.
Fit looks OK in those photos. Try the bars back and/or up a bit.
Probably best getting your pedalling position right first.Plenty of videos on you tube.With the seat in the correct position for height and fore/aft adjustment you can then look at the stem and bars.Also maybe look at some core strengthening exercises so your body can help rather than all the weight being on your shoulders,arms and hands.
Thanks all, have a few things to try out now. Other bike is a small full suss and is loads better with regards to the weight on hands issue, but it is a very different bike as it's 150 travel and quite slack.
I think it could be worth a try for the sake of a tenner or so. 15-20mm further back can take weight of the hands and saddle position is a good starting point for good fit. You're aiming to balance your c of g by saddle position first, not bars.feel like I have a load of weight on my hands when riding. The seat is as far back on the rails as it can go and I am wondering if a layback post could help
tbh I couldn't tell anything from pics, it's too subtle for that and body proportions, where your weight is etc vary a fair bit.
Your saddle is too low, no doubt about it. I'd also put good money on the nose of your saddle being too low as well, that shifts your weight forward, and you are probably doing that to compensate for a bad saddle choice.
With your heel on the center of the pedal at the bottom of the stroke your leg should be a few degrees shy of being locked at the knee. Don't try pedaling backwards as a check though, it doesn't work as we all pedal heel down when going backwards but pedal heel up when pedaling forwards so it could be 2-3" different.
I would say you saddle is to low as well, but then it make the saddle to bar drop more as well, (putting more weight on your arms)
so I would look at your bar height, have you got any spacers above the stem that can be moved below? or maybe flip the stem or get a higher rise stem. and maybe a shorter on(hard to see in the pics)
Also I say maybe look at the angle of your brake levers, maybe they can be rotated down a little to be more in line with your arms.
Regarding the comments on saddle height, I find that if I put it to the height I need, which is about another inch, it makes the situation worse. I am going to go back to having the seat set in the centre of the rails, pop seat to proper height and then try moving the bars a touch towards me. In my mind this would cramp me up even more however it will be a good test to see which direction to take things.
This will pitch your weight forward more and little you can do with the bars can compensate - if you can borrow a layback post, try it so at least then you know that centring your body weight isn't the issue.I am going to go back to having the seat set in the centre of the rails
Jamseo, is it possible to get a layback post for a tenner or so?
Is that a kids bike?
It does look really [s]chuckable[/s] too small. Personally I reckon you are going to chuck more money at it trying to make it fit. Have a look at the difference between new frames and 2nd hand ebay for the frame.
Jamseo, is it possible to get a layback post for a tenner or so?
Just put a WTD ad up, or get something off eBay.
It's those tiny 26 inch wheels that are throwing you Mike
No it's the fact you are riding a bike that is too small for you 😉
Have you done a direct comparison of the positions of your good 'fs bike and the hard tail to see what the difference is? Bar to saddle distance, bars to saddle drop/ rise, spirit level on saddle and pedal to saddle distance?
Looks like your brake levers need rotated downwards - my wrists hurt just looking at that
The brake lever comments are certainly valid, they are in the wrong place, funny how you don't think of these things but it is obvious when you look at a pic. That said I don't think it will help the situation as I don't ride this bike with my fingers covering the levers normally so hands can go wherever they fancy. I needed to cover the brakes in the photo as I was trying to avoid garden obstacles.
[i]I don't ride this bike with my fingers covering the levers normally[/i]
😯
Things I'd try;
1) getting the saddle the right height
2) sort out the brake angle (and start covering the brakes with at least one finger on each side all the time, you never now when you'll need them)
3) get a higher rise stem and/or higher rise bars (or put more spacer sunder the one you have if possible) - it'll make you more upright and push your weight back a bit.
John: Wife, can you take a picture of me on my bike, so I can put it on the internet for other men to look at, and make suggestions?
Wife: Erm...what?
8)
[quote=wwaswas ]start covering the brakes with at least one finger on each side all the time, you never now when you'll need them
See the bar-ends thread.... 🙄
sorry, I didn't see the bar ends in the OP's pictures.
The point?
It's way over there ======================>
If you want an argument on whether it's best to cover the brakes whenever possible or not maybe start a thread on that?
I expressed an opinion (based on my thought that if he moved the brake levers then covering the brakes wouldn't be an issue and for that reason it felt relevant) and I also tried to help the OP with the problem that they said they had at the same time.
Hi John,
I suspect your bike is too small for you. I have a long body and shorter legs and had the "too much weight on the hands" issue too. In the end I bought a larger frame although I'm more in the medium range as it meant the bars were higher in relation to the saddle and I didn't feel cramped. As you say putting the saddle to the correct height seems unlikely to make the hands issue better on its own, although as said using a layback post and riser bars might help. Have you tried any bigger framed bikes to see if they feel any better?
Jon.
Looking at your photo, your ankle looks slightly dropped. Personally I ride a little more toe down, so you may want to consider popping the saddle up a bit?
^^^ This is the advice that you [i]shouldn't[/i] take.
If the problem is too much weight on the hands then a layback post will make it worse. You will be more leant forward and more weight will be on the wrists.
Saddle position is critical anyway - you need to set the saddle to be correct in relation to the bb, then sort out the reach after that.
My advice, set the saddle position and the seat post height, then get a higher rise stem or bars as if the saddle height is raised, you should raise the bars by the same amount. If you can't get the reach comfortable with the saddle in the right position then the bike is the wrong dize.
Oh, and rotate your brake levers down!
No, it can mean a better balance that takes weight off the bars if anything. You may increase reach but it'll be more tolerable with less weight tipping fwd.If the problem is too much weight on the hands then a layback post will make it worse. You will be more leant forward and more weight will be on the wrists.
Saddle position is critical anyway - you need to set the saddle to be correct in relation to the bb, then sort out the reach after that.
Sort of agree, in that position over bb is important in same way as saddle position is - same thing really, for balance and comfort, good fit starts there. Position over BB as in KOPS relation for pedalling efficiency etc, less so and not really where fitting should start (often does though - maybe only a driver for fit for performance riders who can tolerate a less comfy position)
OK OK OK 🙂 I will move the damn brake levers just to keep you lot happy! To my point about not covering them all the time, I use this bike for pootling along with the children and for long non technical XC rides so the need for sudden braking is lessened. I do ride with brakes covered on the full suss while on more techie stuff.
So a divided opinion on the layback seatpost approach, if I can get hold of a cheap one I will let you know.
Oddly my wife didn't bat an eyelid when asked to photograph me riding round the garden, maybe if I was naked she might have reacted differently but who knows!
Can I confuse things and say that lower / steeper angled brake levers usually increase arm-pump for me compared to moderately angled levers? : ) Dropping the wrists a little is no bad thing. Anyway, get your balance as right as it can be on the bike first )
On the layback post thing, if you have time read Keith Bontrager's 'KOPS - debunking the myth' essay, or scan through it. It's quite detailed but the theory in it is some of the most useful out there. A DH skier analogy sums this aspect of fitting up - get into a DH skier position, sort of similar to on a bike. Similar enough to illustrate a point anyway. Your c of g is over the balls of your feet when you're balanced. The longer (or heavier) your upper body the more your backside + lower body needs to be behind your feet for balance. Once your torso is in balance you can move your arms around a fair bit (ie bar position) and it makes little difference, ie you can set bars up for handling not just fit. But if you want to shift your c of g fwd past the balls of the feet you need something to support your hands - this is the 'weight on the bars' feeling that causes wrist pain for many.
So sliding the saddle back can be a way to take weight off the hands or account for different rider builds. And if you start with KOPS for saddle position, you're stuffed if your c of g isn't central in that position. For average builds it's close and a fair quick-fit guide, but there's more to it.