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So you think Canyon should hold him to the original price in Euros?
Why should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved? If you were a European supplier would you be offering to make less money by discounting sales to the UK?
Ianal but I'd be offering to pay the amount in sterling when my payment details were provided, although I suspect it really ought to be euros if that's what was agreed (the OP had the opportunity to chase up timeous payment had he genuinely wished to do so).
The contract was clearly agreed so this is just a case of late invoicing/delayed payment (being made or taken). I don't know the strict legal position but common sense says this is more a customer service issue rather than a legal one. Maybe ask for a free pink helmet and some energy bars?
What? That was the original agreement, as made voluntarily by OP. The price is the price - in Euros. I suppose if the exchange rate had gone in his favour you'd be recommending he pay more? 😆So you think Canyon should hold him to the original price in Euros?Harsh.
Mister P - MemberWhy should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved?
Because the delay and therefore the exchange rate change is their fault. It's not reasonable to expect a customer to pay the price of your mistake- even if there's no agreed rate, the customer is making their buying decision based on current rates.
lol, Canyon control international currency markets now?!therefore the exchange rate change is their fault
Yes, obviously that's what I meant.
gonzy - Member
Those saying "say you never received it" surely canyon send their bikes via some sort of recorded delivery?
i guess you missed the sarcasm in that comment
It was russl comment and you seemed to suggest that was an option. I didn't get any hint of sarcasm. Can't believe I didn't pick up on it 🙂
russl - Member
Play your cards right and you could get a free bike out of this, first thing is to contact your bank/card company and get them to block any payments to Canyon, I've got no morals when it comes to big companies, stuff em, to send you a bill a year later is a shambles. [b]Tell them you never received the bike and didn't chase it because they didn't take the money[/b]. Good luck.the way i see it OP ha a number of options:
a) contact canyon and tell them that the person they are looking for no longer lives at that address
[b]b) tell them he never received a bike from them and seeing as no money was taken he never chased it up with them (as previously mentioned[/b])
The exchange rate is out of Canyon's and the buyers control, but the OP ordered the bike when it cost £xxxx and because Canyon forgot to take the money the change in exchange rates means that it's going to cost the OP more. He could clearly argue that he might not have purchased the bike had it cost that much last year.
Canyon sell their bikes in local currency, so the contract will have been for £XXX not XXXEuros. Any price change to the sales price of the bike (whether in Euros or not, whether down to Brexit or not) is irrelevant - the original contract was agreed at a price (which the OP will have a copy of the email confirmation).
When I posted bits of my contract earlier, specifically retention of title, I was asked if this was a finance contract. No, this was a straightforward credit card single payment contract, those were the terms of the documentation that came with it.
As far as retention of title is concerned, that doesn't entitle the OP to use the bike, reduce its value in the meanwhile and then simply return it when he finds he hasn't paid. It means that until they had payment, it remains theirs. And therefore anyone using it and damaging it in any way would be liable to Canyon for the cost of that damage.
That's all legal stuff. The important bits though are in the customer service angles which the OP needs to be getting Canyon onto - they should be showing their customer service by understanding that this is their cockup (not his) and at the very least (despite their contractual rights) agreeing to phased payments, and hopefully a small discount for the inconvenience.
Where it may get complicated is if the OP did in fact properly cancel his order and they sent it anyway. In court, a judge would find it hard to believe that the OP genuinely thought this was some gift from Canyon for being a nice guy, and therefore any absence in making the unexpected delivery known to Canyon would make him look like he was trying to pull a fast one.
Bottom line - he ordered a bike from Canyon. It came. He gave them payment details. They made a mistake in not processing it which they are now trying to rectify. He's entitled to get upset, but beyond that he has to rely on good customer service from Canyon. They are entitled to their money, but only to the value originally contracted and would struggle to make a small claims action stick if they don't at least give him some time to make the payments beyond "10 days from now".
[Seems to be a misapprehension here that you pay in Euros for a Canyon bike. I certainly paid in sterling on my credit card. I wanted to pay in Euros as the price for my bike was cheaper, but they didn't facilitate that]
Why should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved?
Because they ballsed up.
If they are taking payment in GBP at the price originally set and agreed, they are taking a hit on the exchange rate in any event.
Not that I feel sorry for them, that's their fault for failing to take the money at the right time.
Forex rates are a complete distraction in this thread. The original invoice was most likely in GBP, it needs settling in GBP at the amount originally invoiced (or less, if Canyon will accept less).
Have to say, if it was me I'd be paying them- but I'd be paying them what it should have cost me back then, not today's brexit-shagged pound equivalent.
Precisely - that was the amount agreed between Canyon and the OP.
THE INVOICE WAS PROBABLY IN POUNDS BACK THEN AND NOW - STOP TALKING ABOUT EUROS!!!!!!!
[Sorry for shouting, I feel my point has been missed!]
THE INVOICE WAS PROBABLY IN POUNDS BACK THEN AND NOW - STOP TALKING ABOUT EUROS!!!!!!![Sorry for shouting, I feel my point has been missed!]
Yes, but they're asking for more £ now than they were at the beginning, which is when the OP and Canyon entered into the contract.
but beyond that he has to rely on good customer service from Canyon
No hope then 😀
Yes, that's what the OP said. But I think everyone here is leaping to a conclusion that that is Canyon trying to factor in exchange rates.
The OP didn't say "And they're adding a Euros surcharge" or anything to that effect. It seems to me the most likely thing is he bought a bike that was priced say £3299 in 2016 and the same bike now sells for £3499 and they are trying to charge him the higher amount.
Again, most likely just a cockup with their system being unable to generate a payment request for an amount lower than the current sales value.
They have no right at all to demand more money than the original contract was for, that bit I agree with.
If he had arranged to pay in Euros, I would have sympathy with an argument that his exchange rate penalty for the delayed payment should be a negotiating point with Canyon, but as that situation doesn't seem to have arisen, its irrelevant.
I did take your point larkim, but we're already entrenched in a completely irrelevant debate and we're not stopping just because some smartarse has come along with the facts!
😉
Where's the sodding OP gone anyway?
Canyon sell in the UK in £ so forex risk is theirs, which is why we all got pissy a couple of years back when the euro dropped and the UK pricings didn't to the point that it was cheaper to drive to their outlet store in Germany and buy in Euros for anything north of £2k.
They have dropped a major bollock in shipping before payment cleared and made it worse by not realising until now. I'd be paying but I'd be pushing them to do a staged payment over a few months.
Interesting. In the real world, we have penalty clauses in place for late invoicing. Certainly if we billed after 12 months we'd be lucky to get anything back from a client except the contract.
I guess no such agreement exists here, but I'd be checking their T's and C's for a start.
I certainly would not be paying a revised price. That cock up is firmly in their court.
LOL @ chakaping - agreed!
@fourbanger - penalty clauses are usually for late payment rather than late invoicing. But agree that if you delay your bill you are very likely to be on the wrong end of a customer at least trying to avoid paying or taking their business elsewhere because you've acted like a numpty!
Is there an alert that you can set up to advise when the OP comes back to update?.....I think he was last involved on page 1 😀
@fourbanger - I'm interested in that then. Usually a contract is drafted by the company selling an item / service, so to write in something which penalises yourself is unusual. I presume the other party insisted on it for some reason. Its definitely unusual though to do it that way around as the ultimate penalty is being paid by the vendor anyway - they are not getting paid!
Is there an alert that you can set up to advise when the OP comes back to update?.....I think he was last involved on page 1
maybe he's done a Reggie Perrin to avoid paying 😆
Have we any update? Genuinely interested to see how this ends
hi , no update as of yet , waiting on canyon to reply about the amount ,maybe ill hear next jan ! 🙂
**** me, he's back!
maybe ill hear next jan
their prices will have gone up again by that time 😆
IANAL, morally I think OP should be paying the price they saw on the Canyon site when they hit the payment confirmation button last year, if the OP has triple checked their bank statements to ensure Canyon have not already received a payment for the bike since placing the order.
If this error is widespread with Canyon's business last year, where money has not been paid for goods, it could explain why some people are waiting an age for the bikes to arrive. Computer says company is in financial trouble; less frames and components in warehouse; cuts workforce; less employees available to put bikes together etc.
If this error is widespread, regardless of whether they are now trying to "double-charge" customers for items sold or whether they did not accept payment for goods when orders were placed, it is likely to further encourage people to not buy from Canyon.
Well after getting an invoice from canyon this week for a crash replacement frame and fork, that I received last June,I emailed them to see if I could pay by credit card, only to be told that crash replacement schemes can only be paid by bank transfer.
What a pain in the ass that was to set up and send money. I had to google the full address of bank in Germany, as my bank would not let me leave any details blank. The info on the canyon invoice was not detailed enough.
Canyon guys probably a bit busy posting gels and cheap helmets to the UK this week..
OP, any response from Canyon on this?
"What a pain in the ass that was to set up and send money"
transferwise. That is all.
Conversely canyon posted a bike out and charged my wife after she cancelled it, then she had to email the chief executive to get her money back. Not keen on direct sales models which don't seem set up for direct sales.
Many years ago i hired a car in York from a national firm then drove home to Bath dropped car at depot out of hours so posted keys through letter box as agreed.
I called them following morning to check they had keys and request my deposit back which i had paid in cash at the time in York.
3 days later cheque arrived in post for deposit,cashed it. End of business.
A month later another cheque arrived in the post for my deposit again , i held it for a month then paid it into my bank but kept the money aside for 3 months ,no requests were ever recieved for the double refund.
So my trip from York to Bath cost me next to nothing .
Their mistake not mine. over 30 years ago now.
They did make a mistake, but you could have opted not to cash in the second cheque. So it was a "mistake" on your part, as well.
Mistake? It was theft.
Reminds me of being a student, my mate had a summer job, but continued being paid for a few months after he'd left. Thursday nights in the pub, taking turns nipping out and checking the ATM every 10 minutes after 11pm to see if we were going out for the night or not.
Of course, the more mature me would frown on this sort of thing nowadays
I read in the Liverpool Echo some years ago about a bloke who was prosecuted after taking advantage of a company's mistakes.
He bought a large TV from Costco which was displayed as being (say) £1,999. At the checkout, it rang through as £199. He didn't query it, the till operator didn't query it, he walked away with a nice cheap large TV. And at that point hadn't done anything particularly wrong.
But when he went back a second time, and a third time, and a fourth time when the mistake still hadn't been fixed, he was knowingly taking advantage of their mistake to create a situation of obtaining property by deception (aka theft). He was convicted.
The first instance was considered to be the store's own risk - contract law says that the price on the shelf is only an "invitation to treat" so isn't binding, the contract is made when the till operator effectively says "I offer to sell this to you for the price I'm ringing it through at" and you accept that offer. If the till operator (or the company) has made a mistake in the price that they offer, that won't necessarily invalidate the contract (though it can do - the doctrine of mistake comes into play). But from that criminal case it seems that if you induce the mistake from the company with intent to take advantage of it, that can be considered to be a criminal offence.
So I'd agree with thecaptain here - banking the second cheque (30 years ago!) I think would technically be theft; it's an intentional act of taking advantage of a mistake where at least clarifying the position was not difficult to do.
But I digress...
I've just taken receipt of a payment demand from Canyon, and I have no idea what it's for. It looks like they're updating their books as this one is automated, but now they're getting a little threatening with 'Legal Action'
Just had a demanding letter too. I called to confirm it was a legit email and the guy in CS was a little shirty! They completely ballsed up my order back in September 2015 and refunded me thousands of pounds accidentally! I did the decent thing and sent it back.
Sent what back? The bike or the money? A used bike? I'm confused.
the plot thickens..
I sent them their money back. Kept the bike...love it!