I'm not a mountain biker but a mountain bike owner (all my time spent roading), however doing a big loop somewhere in the Peaks next month with me regular-mtbing mates. I've done an mtb ride only thrice in me (long) life and stacked each time, once having to push the damn thing home 5 miles down a Lakeland fell due to cracked rib and battered bike.
So, popped out for practice round the terrifying cornfield at the back of Tesco... the footpath round which, to be fair, is narrow, steep and stony.
Going up I keep lifting the front wheel and when turn a corner that goes steeper had to get off out of fear of stack.
Going down find the front end v twitchy and perhaps due to roading feel The Fear when encounter gravel and camber. Anyways, I tend to descend very gingerly with lots of dabs on brakes to feel maintain control - dunno if that best tactic.
Best advice anyone ever gave me was to get my butt behind the saddle when going downhill. I was wondering if anyone had any similar simple basic advice (in any technical aspect, not nec DH) to avoid misery, fear, and A&E.
Ta
Oz.
similar simple basic advice
Speed is your friend
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Apparently
Going up I keep lifting the front wheel
Saddle forward.
I tend to descend very gingerly with lots of dabs on brakes to feel maintain control - dunno if that best tactic.
If it works for you...
In general, it sounds like you could do with breaking yourself in gently (trail centre blue?), otherwise you may not enjoy it. I am kind of wondering why you bother?
Get Brian Lopes' book. It's awesome. It clearly explains all the techniques and physics that get repeated and chinese whispered here and in the magazines.
Go and read bikeradar - lots of technique articles aimed at your level and some of them are actually quite good
Ride, ride, and ride some more. I'm no cycling god, but all (or what little) I've learnt has been from time on the bike.
P.s. you can spend a lot of time analysing your technic and psych youself into a quivering mess - that not to say you can't get helpful info, but don't expect to read a book/website and become a STW riding god (as your probably at the level of most ppl on here already 
).
I'd say trail centre blue with an MTB mate who knows can teach you the ropes of set up/ body position.
Keep to the blues till you have a bit more confidence then apply for a skills course with some one recommended either from someone you trust, or recommendation from here..
IIR a poster on here went with Jedi and progressed exponentially, But on the same day she witnessed another group with another tutor who were being coerced / bullied in to attempting stuff WAYYYYY outside of their skillsets and ability - to me that's the best way of putting the fear of god in to someone and at best setting back their progress or at worse making them think "Sod this!!"
If you're properly scared, you won't learn. You shut down to the reptilian brain. It's a case of pushing yourself, or being pushed, gradually.
For way less than the price of a pair of tyres you can go on a skills session. All of the things you mention are more common than not in novice mountain bikers, plus you've probably got some bad roadie habits that make some features of good mountain bike practice seem counter-intuitive.
If you haven't the time for a skills session, then three golden rules will get you started:
• Take some air out of you front tyre - soft, like an orange. Not roadie hard like an apple.
• If you're freewheeling off-road, stand up and ride on both feet (not your hands, and def not your bum).
• Look [i]through[/i] the trail, [u]not[/u] down at it. Looking at it can't change it, but it can make you react unnecessarily to it.
Obviously a hell of a lot more could be added, but that's not a bad way to start.
Being a roadie you are probably not at all used to getting out of the saddle (if only slightly), shifting your bodyweight around and letting the bike bump/flow underneath you which is the key to riding smoothly offroad.
For low speed techy stuff it can be a useful exercise to develop balance by riding slow tight figure-8s in a carpark somewhere.
On faster sections don't worry about too much about speed per se, just try and pick smooth lines and find some rhythm/flow with the bike.
Gravelly offcamber corners are just horrible, we all hate those 😉
Weight on the saddle nose when climbing steep.
Weight back when descending.
When MTBing, you are not riding the bike, you are USING the bike to get you where you want to be. So don't just sit on it and expect it to go where you want it to go.
It's a bit like skiing in that respect. Weight distribution is everything.
Thanks everyone.
I am kind of wondering why you bother?
What an odd question. I like being on a bike and I like being out in the hills. Is that not enough?
you are not riding the bike, you are USING the bike
Excellent, I like that a lot.
Some good advice above. The other thing is learn to trust your tyres - MTB tyres off a lot of grip compared to road tyres and are ( generally) progressive when they let go. Try progressively building up braking force - you might just be surprised how much grip you have and how easy it is to feel the limits. This might give you a bit more confidence
good advice above. to elaborate on TJ's point i sometimes just unweight the rear and grab a bit of rear brake to gauge grip levels.
if you have a quick release seat collar get used to using it and dropping the saddle as far as it will go for the downs. if you have your saddle stuck up at efficient pedalling height when it gets steep it'll make you feel more likely to go over the bars, as it pleasantly taps you in the nuts.
also as above, look along the trail at the line you want to take, and keep your head up - this will naturally help increase your speed and make you smoother. see the line around or over obstacles, but concentrate on the line you're going to take, NOT the things you don't want to hit. if you fixate on a rock in the trail you WILL hit it!
have fun!
If I were you I would book a session with a skills compnay or get a good friend who knows what they are doing to take you out somewhere easy and give you some tips.
Riding a MTB off road effectively needs good instruction. I've known quite a few guys give it up after a nasty stack as they bit off more than they could chew.
Forget your road riding experience skills, it's totally different as above.
Ajoten - MemberI am kind of wondering why you bother?
What an odd question. I like being on a bike and I like being out in the hills. Is that not enough?
You just make it sound like riding off road is not enjoyable for you, yet you aren't going to get used to it enough in order for it to be so.
The only thing I'd say is relax and go out/ride at your own pace. Decide to go out with your friends on this loop later (maybe now but possibly later).
Part of offroad riding is enjoyment- self-enjoyment. Relaxing will allow this.
My tips, repeating some the above:
Going uphill:
* Sit on the tip of the saddle to get extra grip, keep your chest low
* If you stand up, make sure that a) it's not a loose surface and b) you're in a higher gear.
Going downhill:
* A bit of speed helps, if you go too slow the front wheel gets stuck on smaller ridges that you'd just bounce over at higher speeds.
* Weight back - if you've got your arse all the way over the rear wheel and you're wearing baggy shorts just be careful you don't get caught up on the saddle as you move back forward!
* Try and keep knees and elbows flexed - the bike should be moving up, down and sideways over the rocks, your head should follow a smooth path down the hill.
* Look down the trail, where you look is where you go. Don't fixate on that large rock over there, or you'll ride straight into it!
Corners:
* Keep the outside pedal down
if you have a quick release seat collar get used to using it and dropping the saddle as far as it will go for the downs.
As counterpoint, for many years I never really liked to do this because it messed up my points of reference. You may feel the same.
Don't grip the bars too hard
keep your arms loose.
Look well ahead
Brake before obstacles and speed-up through them
Don't steer any more than you have too
Put your weight where you need the grip
-When you become more confident, practice braking on corners to aid this
[b]Relax[/b]
Get the hours in and it will improve, although, as with most things, some people seem more comfortable than others.
Baggy shorts?!!! Rest assured I shall be wearing my lycra bib shorts and Campagnolo top. For comedy value of course.
+1 for the comment on getting the Brian Lopes book [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastering-Mountain-Skills-Brian-Lopes/dp/0736083715/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281611299&sr=1-1 ]HERE[/url]. This will give you a frame of reference to try on your own, then watch how your mates put it into practice.
Once you have got the basics, sign up for a skills cours
Go out riding with people better than you but who are willing to share tips, it's the best way to push your comfort zone while improving your technique. Follow their line so you can get used to riding the most efficient route possible.
Riding with someone is also far more beneficial than just taking tips from us. 😀
big +1 on the dont grip too hard.... my first few rides killed my hands as despite remembering to keep my elbows loose my grip was too tight.... doesnt help the bike move underneath you!
also along with all the good advice above... when you stand up on the pedals.... keep your knees bent and flexible.... took me a couple of rides to get out of the habit of standing up and locking my legs againt the saddle as i sat further back.... meant that my knees were slightly bent but i had no movement...
you sound like my girlfriends current riding level, out of interest you mentioned owning a mtb... but unless i've missed a post... is yours a hardtail or full-suss? also is it one of those horrific halfords appolos? (they dont help build confidence when riding!)
if you have a quick release seat collar get used to using it and dropping the saddle as far as it will go for the downs.[b]As counterpoint, for many years I never really liked to do this because it messed up my points of reference. You may feel the same.[/b]
As a compromise, find the pedal efficient height, mark this and drop the post an inch and halfish... Drops the C O G just enough for mildly techy bits and still allows you to pedal.With the bonus of, if your legs are tired near the end of the ride, up the saddle and it changes how you use the leg muscle groups giving another lease of Go!
Ride lots (regularly) of local trails, bridleways, woods, farm tracks etc to gain a feel for your bike before going anywhere steep and techy. The more you ride the faster you will go through the woods as your confidence grows. Make sure your bike is right for you too, saddle height, bar position, tyres/pressures, fork rebound etc. Finally go on a course,I can recommend Ed Oxley and his stop crashing course, best £60 I have spent on mtbing.
Take your saddle off completely, for a quick loop of some (mildly) technical trail. This will mean that you HAVE to move yourself around on the bike, and will learn how to use your weight over the bike to get over/around stuff.
If you sit down to much, you'll not learn to feel the trail.
Repeat small sections of trail over, and over again, trying different ways of keeping your upper body over the bike. You'll learn how different it can feel this way.
Make sure your tyres are not too hard, as you'll lose vital grip.
Ride on your own ALOT... as following people on a trail can 'HIDE' the trail from you, and mean you cannot anticipate whats coming. Reading the trail means you'll ride it better when it's under your wheels.
Flat pedals only i presume?
Do a bit of this and then mtb will seem quite straight-forward.
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ps. Look at the way they are positioning themselves forward/back and sideways.
If this helps I'm an EX roadie, & i can downhill at blistering speed on tarmac. I was a quivering wreck on off road desents. here are some observations from my own experiance.
1) don't overly brake as your front wheel will hit every pot hole, & throw you over the bars, any rolling speed will help you smooth out the track. You will fall off less.
2) Stand and keep loose on the bike, keep central, if needed extend your arms to push your bike forward, just adjust your centre of gravity on your bike as needed it's a feel thing.
3) there is a pace to a trail try to follow it with the line. e.g. short sprint at the bottom of small hills will roll you half way up stepping back on the gas for the last half, hill done, if you follow the flow you will expel less energy going round, it's hard to explain but you just know then your there. It's like using the force to jedi's.
hope this helps
happy biking
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mastering-mountain-bike-skills-1 ]Book[/url] - v good. Attack attack!
No don't forget your roadie experince! You will have already learned some good things but you just don't recognise them.
Maybe jedi, although I find it almost universal that people from a road background sit down to brake, and hence roll all the decceleration force through to the 'bars (just one example). I've shown many experienced riders how to hold the bike on their feet and why that means they can brake more strongly and more safely, and they can straight away see how this is a better way to brake on the road as well as off-road.
It's also common for road riders not to move very much, and that usually severely limits their potential. Plus, they usually hang their heads! Not everyone, but most.
Tips from a journeyman:
I'd start the apprenticeship just riding loops around forest roads and wide bridleways at moderate speeds until you get a feel for the bike and for rougher terrain than tarmac.
The saddle is just a resting place when pedalling hard. Esp. downhill, you'll want to stand on your pedals and feel the bike with your feet. The suspension provided by your legs will massively improve the grip. [i]Top-tip: Dropping the saddle 3" really helps drill this into you because it discourages you from sitting.[/i]
Picking where and how much to brake matters because it de-stabilises the bike. So normally [i]brake when going straight, [b]before[/b] you ride into an obstacle/steep or loose slope/corner[/i], then ease off the brakes and let the bike find its way through.
Easy to say, but a lifetime to master (I'm still trying). Good luck and keep at it!
Just nipped out for 45 mins of trying to put some of this advice into practice. Now an off road God. Well kinda. The looking-well-in-front thing helps a lot, I think, forces me to trust the bike to get over roots and along gravel and stuff. But most importantly it makes it more of a just-being-out-on-a-bike zen experience which roading is so good for IMHO.
is it one of those horrific halfords appolos?
Felt Q620. As it happens, my two worst stacks were on an Apollo Lazer which I was given. Rigid forks and (non-V) rim brakes. Put me off for years.
Flat pedals only i presume?
Being confident SPD user ON road I got some ace M545 pedals when I got the Felt, but have since changed to flats. I hate them, but they are right for me.
I'd say stick with SPDs if you are used to them. Flats do have limitations in terms of pedalling technique. For DH work, flats are definitely it, but for XC SPDs are your friend.
for the front end lifting thing, one simple trick someone showed me recently is to put your thumb over the top of the bar with your fingers, keeps you from unweighting the bars that way.
Picking where and how much to brake matters because it de-stabilises the bike. So normally brake when going straight, before you ride into an obstacle
This.
And more generally, at speed look ahead for the smooth bits where you can push the bike down into the trail with your feet for braking traction or line changes, then unweight and "float" over the next rocky/rooty section. It becomes a rhythmn as much as cornering does.
"front end lifting thing"
O yeah, rotate wrists toward you so that elbows are tucked in low, then pull on arms a bit to shuffle bum forward on saddle. Keep chest low. It keeps some pressure on the front wheel so you can steer.
That thumb-over-the-top tip sounds good too - nice one, I'll try that!
Do a bit of this and then mtb will seem quite straight-forward.
Do abit of that and you'd score more with chicks!
elliptic - MemberGravelly offcamber corners are just horrible, we all hate those
i beg to differ!
Ajoten; sounds like you're in for an exciting day in the peaks! - take it easy, and accept that you'll either have to walk a few sections, and or crash a bit. (you're allowed to walk through tricky bits, really, you are)
you will of course crush your fat mtb mates with your roadie fitness as soon as the trail heads upwards, which is most of the time in the peak district...
some top stuff above. I've been Road riding it a fair bit over the last few weeks with no mtbing. I went out on MTB today and it was really apparent that on a RB you just sit and pedal, sometimes grind out the saddle, and it's all legs. but On mtb you move the bike around underneath you and use your upper body a LOT more, it's a bit like the bike is an extension of yourself, an extra bike shaped limb. It's all cycling though. Just keep riding offroad more n more n more and you'll gradually get better and more confident. start off with some foresty singletrack with roots n stuff maybe?