[Closed] BBC Breakfast - lorry blindspot cameras

yeah I was shouting at the television at that point. Too reliant on technology my arse. Oh no, we can't have wing mirrors as we'll be too reliant on reflective glass surfaces. Translation = "we don't want to spend money on cameras".

of course there is no substitution for education.

when you drive a van you become only too aware of where the blind spots are on a vehicle no bigger than your average car.

you dont take chances with trucks then - they hurt.

Is this a bit like a reversing camera then ?
Where's it mounted and which direction is it pointing ?

Is there not a legal precedent relating to prosecution of a local authority somewhere , who having spent £xxxxxx on a fancy new bin waggon, didn't think to add a reversing camera. Prosecuted under SHE legislation if I remember correctly, following an accident. The onus being on that authority to take all [b]reasonable[/b] measures to ensure safety etc.
I guess a £100 camera as a delta cost to a £xxxxxx truck should have been deemed reasonable and should have been considered.
i.e. The cost argument has been tested and didn't hold water.
The SHE legislation is bl00dy onerous 😐

Danger of becoming too reliant on technology and therefore might not notice what's in front?

I didn't see that interview but I've heard some of the arguments in the past and what I suspect that she meant was that putting too much faith/reliance in technology isn't always the best idea as it can create a flase sense of security/safety.

Personally I'm not convinced that sensors will solve the issue. I think that in many cases it is us the cyclists who are in need of education. It was drummed into me during my motor bike training that you should [i]never[/i] filter up the left hand side of a lorry, especially an articulated one, as it is just too dangerous. Filtering up the right hand side wasn't exactly recommended either. I apply this when cycling too.

They may be useful in some circumstances but they are not some sore of magic bullet that will solve the problem.

Looked like a pretty good bit of kit though.

Hang on a minute, gonefishin's mentioned sensors now.
What exactly is this new idea, a camera or a sensor ?
I can imagine both a reversing camera or a parking sensor being adapted for trucks.

Danger of becoming too reliant on technology and therefore might not notice what's in front? Duh.

I'm relying more on my parking sensors now... 😕

As I said I didn't hear that particular interview but there was thing on Radio 4 a few weeks ago that discussed this topic and it included discussion of sensors as well as cameras. The choice of camera or sensor is a distraction to be honest my thoughts would likely be the same no matter what technology was to be implemented.

I was watching this whilst getting ready for the commute this morning 😯

So that women wasn't thinking about the cost to the industry then and coming out with some other spurious reason?

It's a camera to minimise the inside blind spot and movement sensors on the side of the truck. The when the sensors are triggered there is a beep in the cab to warn the driver and an audible warning message is played outside to warn the cyclist/pedestrian.

Nice to see the van driver get prosocuted for dangerous driving. Helmet cam works!

Oh no, we can't have wing mirrors as we'll be too reliant on reflective glass surfaces.

Don't joke. I am so used to my shiny wing mirrors, I had to have another set fitted, but reversed, so I can see what's in front of me.*

*This may or may not be true.

i'm not allowed to use mirrors 🙁 its bad enough violently exciting the sexual urges of everyone in front of me that can see my beautiful face, if i were to use mirrors that means the people behind me would end up in the same hyper-sexualised state. as a nurse i have a duty of care not to endanger the public in such a way.

You can't have an unrevealed failure of a mirror. You can with other technologies.

So when you say "more cyclist education" what do you propose? A mandotory test? Theres already free bikeability training available. Many bike shops in london give away leaflets and advice too.

Part of the problem is that whenever bike lanes are put in the always go up the left of vehicles at the junction. (take a look at the new blackfriars bridge proposal https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/consultation-and-engagement/blackfriars-bridge-engagement) Remember not all cyclist are bike obsessed enthusiasts either, some of them are just beginners trying to get to work. The road should be safe for them too.

I'm relying more on my parking sensors now...

I like the way mine also doubles as a device to hang a bike rack or trailer on!

They look great, we do all need to do our bit though, I see shocking riding and driving everyday on my commute. Smoked glass and mobile phones are another hazard.

In answer to MTQG's question - they have movement sensors down the side of the lorry and a camera mounted to the front wing.

Danger of becoming too reliant on technology

Whereas it shouldn't be an excuse for not making use of the technology, she does have a point.

Parking sensors & sat nav are two 'driver aids' that have already made people lazy as they just sit there waiting for a beep or an instruction, rather than engaging their brains to make judgements and calculations.

How long wll it be before a cyclist is flattened and the driver/owner claims zero responsibility because the camera/sensor setup was faulty?

Teh more you rely on technology the likelier a failure is. Hence people blindly following GPS into stupid places.

Whether this holds water for blindspot cameras is debatable but it is a real effect

It's not a reason for not having them though.

The woman actually said, the driver could be focusing on the blindspot camera screen and not notice a pedestrian walking out in front of him. Bonkers!

Technology seems to be able to fly jet planes around the world every day without too many problems. Didn't work out too well for Toyota though.

I've not seen the new article on the BBC ... but from experience of HGV and large van driving, assessing whats in a camera view on a screen takes a little more time to discern compared to looking in a mirror. Dont know why, but I find it does take more time to figure out the picture .... which to a point means your taking your concentration away from the road ahead.

A sensor on the side of the lorry a bit like a parking one would be ok - but would it not go off every time you pass something.

As an example for not being able to see ... have a look at these pics when I passed a car a while back ... in the second pic, the car is in the blind spot ... its not seen atall at one point and only just beginning to appear in wide angle mirror...

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Theres a lot to be resolved with bikes and trucks, but one thing I'd really like to see is for the shape of trucks to change.

The classic bike truck interface is getting swept under the wheel as trucks turn left. All sorts of vehicles have bad blindspots - I'd argue small vans have worse blind spots that a lot of trucks as vans aren't fitted with all the extra mirrors - small vans can be the worst - the blind spot in an Astra van is immense.

Its the high, open sides of trucks that makes them a bigger risk. If a transit van turns across you it'll barge you to the side as its a flat surface on the sides, down almost to ground level (same would be the case with a bus). With a truck the sides are open, so as the truck turns across - you get hit at shoulder level and tipped onto the ground under the truck and into the path of the wheels as it turns. There are cursory side bars on the sides of most trucks but they only really serve to stop cars running under them, they're too open and too ill-fitting to protect cyclists and peds.

My aunty was taken off her motorbike in this manner, at least with a motorbike theres a loud enough crash for the driver to know the stop, although unfortunately for her he stopped when she was between the twin axels, so the truck had to be reversed back over her to get her out . Hardcore (she's fine now by the way).

When I'm king trucks will have smooth coachwork down to curb level. And I'd also change vat legislation so that UK vans can be supplied with quarterlights (as the commonly are on the continent) without there being a tax penalty. Then I'd change all the names of the days of the week to words that can't be spelt and can only pronounced with hissing, buzzing and clicking sounds. So vote for me to be king