[Closed] Banshee spitfire as.......

looking at a banshee prime for similar reasons.

nice tough bikes.

Hope so. Got all the bits awaiting my 2015 frame to land in the uk. Plan is burly adjustable do anything frame to last and cope with moderately fast rocky stuff built up reasonably light as I don,t do big air/jumps but need to get up hills.

In a word, yes! Look at my posting history for many more thoughts on the subject. I'm just in the process of writing a proper review based on our first 7 months together...

I've got the Ison demo at the mo, in large. I'm 6"1 and would say the sizing is bang on for me. Ride wise, it descends like my 2012 Meta Sx and feels like it has more travel than it's actually got. Never felt a harsh bottom out. Due to the anti-squat characteristics it pedals really well, so good in fact that you find yourself putting in pedal strokes where I wouldn't have usually. It encourages you to 'give it some' at any opportunity. Climbing is awesome, as long as you stay seated! Traction is good and no noticeable pedal bob until you stand but I have this with any bike of this amount of travel. It feels really stable in the air and drops are not a problem at all, just seems to soak it all up. Really close to purchasing one. Just gotta weigh up whether hanging on for Codeine 650b might be worth it but I really, really like this bike!

It'll be reet.

I've got its bigger brother the Rune (which is for sale at the mo due to mini me arriving any day now and reducing my riding time) which I use as a do it all bike; trail centre mincing, uplift days, long days in the Peaks / Swaledale and general tomfoolery and it's great. It pedals like a much lighter bike and loves descending. It felt like it was in its element at Antur (in the slackest setting with so e dual ply tyres). I reckon it jumps pretty well too.

The Spitty is the bike that I probably should have bought but there where in demo bikes available last summering I enjoyed my ride on the a Rune.

Yes, yes, yes. Fantastic do it all bike. Just finished a loop of Cairngorm today and yet again it blows me away just how versatile this bike is. I have done all day xc type riding regularly on it, Trans Savoie was done on it this year and regularly big mountain days out in Scotland and it handles everything so well.

My build is as follows and rarely changes (except the front tyre).

Pikes 150mm.
X Fusion 02 shock
Magic Mary up front with On One Smorgasbord out back. In 26" 🙂

I have not fiddled with the chips in the rear yet but i have an Enduro at Innerleithen next month and i might just try the slack angle and see how i find it.

All sounds good....

Anyone running 160 forks? Iv nearly new bikes (26") so just doing a frame swap all being well.

Mines on 160 pikes/26" wheels. It's just as happy being slung down the steep stuff as it is at 30+ mile mincy rides.

One of the best things about modern 'enduro' style bikes (sorry!) is that they are suitable for being a do it all IMO. My SB66 is just as good on a local 30 mile XC loop as my soul is, to the point that I'm actually having thoughts that I may never buy another HT again. Never thought I'd hear myself say that....

Stripped and sold my HT for the same reason, just didn't use it after I bought the Spitfire.

Can honestly say the HT didn't do anything better.

I'm running 160mm Pikes and 27.5 wheels. Over the past few weeks I've radically changed how my Spitfire feels through some fairly simple changes - I'd had it set up so it was relatively stuck to the ground, tons of grip and very stable thanks to the Magic Mary SG up front, but not that easy to chuck around or launch high.

After a couple of rides back on my old hardtail (having been on the Spitfire exclusively for 6 months) I realised that I was better at riding that on the ragged edge (albeit at slower speeds) and sending it off jumps, especially gaps. Basically more manoeuvrable on corners and more pop off jumps.

Here's what I've done with the Spitfire over the last few rides:

First iteration: Slightly decreased the shock sag (30 to 28%), sped the HSR up (from 3 back to the base tune of 2), sped the Pike's rebound up a lot and decreased the Pike's LSC. Swapped the 1100g Magic Mary SG 2.35 (18psi) for an 800g Trail King 2.2 (22psi).

Result: Way easier to chuck about and corner on the limit. Less stable over the rough but easily stable enough - it felt like a monster truck before! Much more pop off jumps but the back tending to rise more than the front.

Second iteration: Decreased Pike's sag (25 to 20%), wider bars (711 to 750mm), taller bar rise turned into effectively taking 10mm off stem length by rotating them back a bit, tyre pressures up 10%.

Result: Really balanced off jumps, if anything front rising higher. Wider bars and shorter effective stem quick enough but great to lean on when it's getting messy and much better fit for my size. Less grip on flat loose corners though, especially up front.

Third iteration: Tyre pressures back down, Pike sag back to 25% but with second bottomless token for more progression.

Aim: Similar balanced pop off jumps as with 20% Pike sag but better grip in corners thanks to more compliance and lower bar height. To be tested when this bloody cold sods off!

It's a remarkable frame - so versatile that it can be almost anything you want it to be. The only thing it can't be is really really light but it never feels even close to heavy when you're riding it.

I think weight wont be a problem..... My 20" alpine ain't light lol

So decision is large or xl!!!!

Cheers for the info guys

I use mine for everything as I can only have one MTB and agree with all the comments on here about it climbing great and descending like a beast. I have the CCDBA with CS on mine and it's a good shock for the frame, a bit fiddly to get set up but once done it's brilliant.

The only change coming to mine is a new set of forks as the X-Fusion Sweeps I have on mine are just too flexy for my liking so will be swapping to Pikes most likely.

I'm the same as Mac haven't tried it with the other chips yet as I run it with the neutral ones but I'm contemplating giving the slack ones a try.

Guys.... Nearly ready to stick a pre order in, just can't decide on size...

Does anyone around 6'2 have a pic of their large with the seat at pedalling height?

Don't want it to have to be way higher than the bars for my backs sake!!!

Anyone go xl about my height?

hi mate, I spose I can chip in. I have a 2014 spitty in XL. Im 6 ft 2 and a half. Its perfect sizing. At your height I would suggest you demo one to get the sizing right.

I tried a large Rune and immediately felt cramped so decided to get the XL spitty without a demo and am overjoyed with the bike and the sizing.

id put some photos up but I don't know how to do it. Go on the MTBR banshee page for photos. you've asked about body position; the headtube is very very short so I've put a load of spacers on. You'll be able to adjust as much as you want or consider hi riser bars (38mm+) if you want to avoid a time trial hunch position.

with pre- order - I ordered mine in July last year and got it in mid-December?! It was worth it though 🙂

if you want some photos then PM your email address and I can send them. They're all enduro event photos though so I tend to be in descent position with the saddle down.

if you've not demo-ed one then the geometry is modern in the sense it has a long reach and top tube (25.2 inches) with low standover and low BB. Chainstays aren't particularly short though.

I run in slack position and was concerned about the low (13 inch) BB height. Its not an issue though. the anti squat is excellent so you're not sagging into the bike. I've got a low BB but only the occasional pedal strike. Its perfect! im a bit miffed that I'll lose it if (and when) I go 650b. Hopefully not for a few years though 🙂

You will never find an xl demo bike. Since it is 20" like your current frame can you compare geo on paper to get an idea?

Don't want it to have to be way higher than the bars for my backs sake!!!

The frame size won't make any difference - the head tube length and stack height is the same on all Spitfire frame sizes. The head tube length on a Spitfire is 110mm whilst on a 20" Alpine 160 it's 150mm. So if you're running the same travel forks and 26" wheels on both then you'll need another 40mm of total rise in the spacers, stem and bar on the Spitfire whilst if you're running the Spitfire as a 27.5 you'll need less - only about 25mm more due to the longer fork A-C.

A large Spitfire should be about the same length as a 20" Alpine - shorter headtube makes ETT come up shorter than it really is.

yes, do it. The chief up there gave me some good advice before i got mine and i'm chuffed to bits. I originally thought i was doing the wrong thing not going for a Mojo HDR, but then money was an issue, and since then those that have taken it for a blast have commented on how light it rides! My first ride on it was BPW in xc mode 🙂 the first thing i notice about the bike was it's ability to track the ground incredibly well, it took some nice gaps and was still very playful in the tight stuff. It's done plenty of 20,30,40 mile rides as well.

I'm 6' on a large. I did notice that the bike feels smaller than i was expecting, but then the last bike was a medium g-spot with wildly different geo!

I still run 26", but have 650b Pikes on "just in case". Tis superb!

Thanks for all the info guys.....

Finger bang, what sort of weight is the xl coming in at?

aaaaggggghhhh so after much thought it looks like im going for the big brother in xl, the RUNE, just think it may be more suited to my riding and size, the extra bit of travel will help me out on uplifts days and the odd club dh race.

i can always alter the angles for anything a bit more sedate.

and its bound to pedal better than my older alpine.... hopefully lol

thanks for all the input guys

I nearly went with the rune but after an email or two to Keith at Banshee and I ended up with the Spitty. It's a very capable bike and it's called the DHers trail bike for a reason.

At the very least I'd try and get a leg over both if you can then make the decision although given your after an XL it might be hard.

and its bound to pedal better than my older alpine.... hopefully lol

are you doing anything in the way of bigger drop offs etc on the spitty?

was over in scotland at the weekend and hitting the 7/8 ft drops on the alpine....thinking the 140 may bottom out on this type of thing..

I don't think most people include 8ft drops in their do it all category...so yes the Rune would be a better option.

Finger bang, what sort of weight is the xl coming in at?

I haven't weighed it but I understand that the Rune is generally about a pound heavier than the respectively sized Spitty.

I went for the spitty as I already have a DH bike (that I hardly ever use now) and didn't want 160 travel for the singletrack riding I do.

If you're unsure about sizing then you should be able to get a demo on a large. As I said, im 6 2.5 but I have long arms for my size. you can always run a short stem though.

 

A Spitfire with a CCDB Air CS would pedal well and wouldn't blow through the travel.

kendo954 - Member

are you doing anything in the way of bigger drop offs etc on the spitty?

was over in scotland at the weekend and hitting the 7/8 ft drops on the alpine....thinking the 140 may bottom out on this type of thing..

I took the Spitfire/Prime/Phantom off a 3ft-to-flat drop at Dalby and only the Phantom (108mm travel) bottomed out, but it wasn't harsh or bad. It had already absorbed 90% of the impact.

yeah the ladders at glentress would be fine.... its more the matador type drops at inners id be worried about on the spitfire....not really to flat but not big transitions either...

....a fair bit of my local trails have flatish landings

The Spitfire would be fine but considering you're a tall bloke doing fairly big drops regularly, a Rune is going to have a longer service life what with the extra 20mm of travel to reduce the loads and with being built a bit sturdier.

I rode one of these at a demo day this weekend. I wasn't even looking for a new bike. I couldn't believe how well it climbed to be honest, was very nice going down also. I think I may get one.

One thing that really does put me off though is the pivot bearings and how there is no protection from the elements of UK riding for 6-8 months of the year. Any slop from the back wheel will go flying into pivots and surely destroy bearings pretty quickly. Coming from a heckler this is a concern.

Thoughts?

Get in touch with Keith at banshee bikes if you have any questions about sizing, geometry or which model is right for your needs?

[img] [/img]

I worked with Keith for several years, also count him as a good buddy, he is happy to hear from any potential customers.

Regarding the durability of pivots, since Keith switched the bikes to ks link using sealed ball bearings, it's been solid compared to the old vf4b using igus nylon bushings.

One thing that really does put me off though is the pivot bearings and how there is no protection from the elements of UK riding for 6-8 months of the year. Any slop from the back wheel will go flying into pivots and surely destroy bearings pretty quickly. Coming from a heckler this is a concern.

Coming from a hardtail this was a concern of mine too! However, Banshee originates from the Vancouver vicinity (even wetter than much of England), Keith the designer is based in Scotland (ditto), and the frames are thus designed for wet and mud - tons of clearance and good sealing (I emailed him about this when I was first thinking of buying one). I know the previous generation models with bushings instead of bearings suffered badly without careful maintenance but I haven't heard of any premature bearing wear with the 2013 onwards models.

I should give Keith kudos for responding very helpfully to all my emails, even after buying the bike - my last one was about how to make it feel a bit more manouevrable and springy like my hardtail. I gave him a list of potential tweaks and he got straight back with his thoughts on what best to try. And he was right! It's feeling really great now. Just need to get myself preloading the front harder on jumps and the gaps will be mine!

Thanks, will contact him.

I know they can take 26" wheels, can they take 26" forks? I would save a lot of money if I could transfer everything from my heckler if I did decide to buy one.

Also, can it take a 150mm fork?

I've just (last week) replaced my Heckler with a Rune. I was unsure whether to get the Rune or Spitfire as I wanted it for Enduro racing as well. I probably should have got the Spitfire as the Rune is a little heavy (frame is 1.25lb heavier than the Heckler), but overall weight is 32lb, and it climbs better than the Heckler, so I'm happy. Its also mega solid and has that extra travel for Alps trips. I have it setup with all my existing components except for stem. Everything swapped straight over (inc cables+chain!). I have 160mm Vengeance forks 26". Looking at changing the wheels next month to 650b as my forks should be able to take them.

Heres a pic from the w/e
[img] [/img]

The rune looks amazing. I think I will try and demo them both before deciding.

volatilemike - Member

Thanks, will contact him.

I know they can take 26" wheels, can they take 26" forks? I would save a lot of money if I could transfer everything from my heckler if I did decide to buy one.

Also, can it take a 150mm fork?

Pre ordered the run today, xl in orange....

Just got to make my mind up on either the cane creek dbair cs or the inline

Btw - did exchange a few mails to Keith and can confirm he's very helpfull.....

Going to be a long 3/4 weeks waiting now 🙂

Can I ask why you decided on the rune? extra travel?

Think im going to test both. but as Ive got a DH bike for uplift days the spitfire would prob be the better choice, maybe! 😀

FYI my mates Rallon feels a lot more zippy and lighter than my Rune. It accelerates faster too. Probably a better racer. I reckon my Rune excels on the descents and harder/rockier trails. It is more of a DH'er, I mean it looks it as well! The back end looks rock hard! Spitty could be a good compromise, but not seen or ridden one.

This is where I get to post my picture 🙂

[img] [/img]

Spitty could be a good compromise, but not seen... ...one

You saw mine on the start line at the QECP night enduro. Well, I say saw, it was admittedly dark and it is stealth black and I did have a blinding helmet light and luminous enduro hat on... But it was there!

In terms of downhill ability, I'd think of both as being like a bike with 10-20mm more travel (really good travel and geometry to match) - the fork is much more the limiting factor than the frame (though the real limiting factor is the organic entity on top...)

Well here's my Spitty just to give it a bit of perspective 🙂

[img] [/img]

Since this was taken it's now got a 40t One-up, a Reverb and I've got a set of Fox 36's coming as I wanted something burlier than the Sweeps I've got on at the moment upfront, but I absolutely love it.

Id be running it with 26inch wheels and forks if I got one to keep costs down.

The spitfire is probably the sensible choice. Im going to demo it again soon. I like my bike to feel quite poppy.

I like my hecker but its just too small even as a large.

If anyone is in south wales and wants to let me have a go on their rune... 😀

Just to test ofcourse!

You saw mine on the start line at the QECP night enduro

Ultimateweevil, how bashed up is your chainstay? By the BB, the chain runs really close. Even with good chain length and clutch, it takes a few whacks. I heli tapped mine, but have since wrapped it in innertube. noticed it a little on seatstay too.
Any Spitty or Rune riders fashioned up a rear mudguard to stop mud build up inside the linkage area?

Mike, you might find the Rune a little short too. I was surprised. Maybe I miss read, but I thought the effective TT was a lot longer than my Heckler? It doesnt feel too much longer, just a little. I certainly dont have so much weight over the front though. Front wheel doesnt feel like it wants to wash out on corners. Also riding with seat up, I dont feel perched on top, like I did on the Heckler.- I was in Afan on Friday...if only you'd known!

i went for the rune basically for the extra travel, i already have new pikes [on the alpine) so they should match up well

I'm using all 160 at the rear on certain types of riding I'm doing so thought id better have it than look for it 😉

also my thinking is for tamer days at the odd trail centre i can flip the rear chips and steepen it up a bit to make it a slightly easier pedal.

iv also got a hard tail for proper mile munching rides if i feel the need.

what do you rune owners rune shock wise?

Only had my Rune for 7 days, although been on 4 good rides/over 11000ft climbing/descending on it! Its got a Float X CTD shock on it. Climb mode is very impressive. Descend mode is a little too easy to get through the travel. I have ordered myself a volume spacer kit to tune it a little. Trail mode is where it sits most of the time (compression level 2 or 3) and I'll only use the descend or climb if doing DH days or long fireroad climbs.

Mike, you might find the Rune a little short too. I was surprised. Maybe I miss read, but I thought the effective TT was a lot longer than my Heckler? It doesnt feel too much longer, just a little. I certainly dont have so much weight over the front though. Front wheel doesnt feel like it wants to wash out on corners. Also riding with seat up, I dont feel perched on top, like I did on the Heckler.- I was in Afan on Friday...if only you'd known!

Thought I recognized the blade trail sign in your pic!

I know what you mean with the heckler, even after slackening HA to 67ish, it still feels im on top of the bike.

Looking at the geo charts the rune is a tiny bit smaller than the spitfire by 5mm so not much.

I think the answer for me here is I have to try them both dont I? 🙂

Ha ha Superfli you've got sharper eyes than me. Yeah the low BB and I had quite a few issues with snapping chains when I first built it up so a bit of the paints been rubbed off. Went through 3 in the space of 5 rides! But I've now stuck an inner tube on as well.

Just booked a demo for 18th Oct on the spitfire. Looking forward to it.

Anyone know who does demos close to south Yorkshire

Stif cycles near Otley used to but I went on their website recently and they don't seem to sell Banshee any more - worth a try though.

blazing bikes in Shropshire are where I got my bike from. You can have a demo on Long Mynd so worth a trip down

or you could just contact Ison distribution

[url= http://www.edsbikes.co.uk/index.html ]Eds[/url] might be worth a shout; they're based in Snainton.

[url= http://www.yorkcycleworks.com/ ]Not quite south yorkshire...[/url]

not sure on your location but these guys have all sorts of tasty brands to demo.

Cheers ample,
eds even have a small for me £50 for a 2 hour guided demo, that's spot on.

jameswilliams54 - Member

Cheers ample,
eds even have a small for me £50 for a 2 hour guided demo, that's spot on

Cool, that's great news 😀

Just a few thoughts for anyone pondering one or t'other:

The Spitfire's BB height is 10mm lower than the Rune which can be a good thing if you want to run 27.5 wheels.
With 160mm 27.5 forks both bikes are about 1/2 degree slacker than on the geometry charts (HA: Spitfire 65.5-66.5, Rune 64.5-65.5) - and 27.5 wheels are more stable than 26 as well, so they're ridiculously good through the rough like this.
The Spitfire's reach is 10mm longer than the Rune size for size, so it can be run with a shorter stem - or you can size up the Rune and run an even shorter stem.
The chips at the back which adjust the geometry are incredibly easy and quick to change, so it's well worth trying the different positions.

I'm really considering one of these to replace my 2012 Mega which there is nothing wrong with.

Anyone gone from a Mega to a Spitfire by any chance?

I'm thinking the Spitfire may weigh a bit more, and my Mega build is already somehow just under 34lbs...

I'm thinking the Spitfire may weigh a bit more, and my Mega build is already somehow just under 34lbs...

Google suggests they're about the same weight, 3kg-ish without shock. What fork is on your Mega?

intrigued by the banshee - whats a typical built weight in old money?

Mine's just just over 31lbs since I swapped the monstrous SG Magic Mary up front (~1300g) for a Trail King (~800g) and 711mm carbon bars (~180g) for 750mm alloy ones (~300g). With carbon bars, bash removed and Arch EX instead of Flow EX it would be close to 30lbs, so about 29.5 without pedals. Carbon cranks instead of the heftier double&bash SLX ones would get it under 29lbs, whilst keeping everything suitably tough.

More details here: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-slack-low-tough-140-160mm-full-sus-frame-forks-for-140mm-hardtail-rider/page/3

thanks chief. looking for 2015 bike and i think your comments on the banshee led me here 🙂

Google suggests they're about the same weight, 3kg-ish without shock. What fork is on your Mega?

Pikes, carbon bars, flows, slx cranks...

Pikes, carbon bars, flows, slx cranks...

I know it's contrary to all forum bike weight conventions, but are you sure your scales aren't over-reading? 😀

Keep meaning to weigh mine again, it was just over 30lb 1x10 (with proper scales)! but since gone 2x10 but with carbon cranks.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Run it in its slackest setting now, get the odd pedal strike but nothing more than anything else I've ridden. Defo have to be careful of chain rub on the underside of the stay but luckily I wrapped plenty of innertube round from new. Brilliant all rounder.

Ive pretty much convinced myself that if my 2nd demo of the bike goes well Im buying one, Im going to swapping everything I have now over so 26" and 150mm revs. Im hoping this wont alter the geo? I would love pikes but I just cant afford them.

^^^^^ That's a cracking looking bike Bluearsedfly! Love the colour co-ordinated fork and wheels too 😉

I think Kayak23's bike is probably one of the more honest weights - sub 29lb with that spec No chance. 1.3kg SG casing Schwalbe's don't exist, even in 29" form - the 27.5" are ~1kg, the DH casings are ~1.2kg.

I gotta get me some of these magic scales. I'll have the first 25lb Nomad for bragging rights 🙂

Having seriously considered one of these for the wife's new bike, I think she's finally decided it's a no go. It's the same weight as her Meta SX frame, so it's going to be 30lbs + in reality, even with a high end spec of swapping everything of hers over. One of her biggest issue's is a heavy bike for the UK, plus the somewhat trivial to some, lack of water bottle mount.

And they don't do it in a colour she likes 😉

I think Kayak23's bike is probably one of the more honest weights - sub 29lb with that spec No chance. 1.3kg SG casing Schwalbe's don't exist, even in 29" form - the 27.5" are ~1kg, the DH casings are ~1.2kg.

You're right, it wasn't 1300g, I just weighed it and it's 1150g. Schwalbe's site claims 1100g. A Nomad frame is claimed to weigh "from 6.2lbs". I don't know if that's with or without shock, but (unsurprisingly as it's a 165mm, big, strong, stiff carbon frame) it isn't going to save a whole 2lbs compared to a Spitfire (or comparable alloy frame).

There's a water bottle mount underneath the down tube.

BAF, your colour coded blue bike looks amazing!

FYI. My Rune is 32lb with the following "Enduro" spec:

Fox Float X shock
2011 Vengeance HLR air forks (lowers are 2012 or 13, just replaced them)
Hope pro2 hubs on Arch EX 26" tubeless
Fat Albert SS front
Nobby Nic SS DD rear
XT 170mm crank 1x10 Raceface 32th NW
KMC x10 chain
Superstar nano pedals
SLX medium clutch mech
XT shifter
Charge Spoon ti
2009 Formula the ones
Thomson 50mm stem
Sunline V1 745mm bars
Superstar Excel lockons
RS Reverb

It climbs better than my old Heckler which was 1.25lb lighter.
It has a bottle mount on underside of downtube.

Heres mine its a great alrounder. I use her for everything bike parks, trail even commuting lol in the current spec mine wieghs 30ib 5oz.

[img][URL= http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/dawes686/dawes686001/20140827_161411.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/dawes686/dawes686001/20140827_161411.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

And an action shot

[URL= http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/dawes686/banshee/Gap.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m634/dawes686/banshee/Gap.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

That is a beaut theraggyone...

Thanks:) ive been slowly working on it over the last 17 months and I think ive finished now ,absolutely love this bike ,its everything and more than I hoped for.

whats the spec TRO? great looking bike...

Really liking the look of these banshees now, along with the transition scout. need to get my leg over each of them!

Thanks:) heres the spec

Fox factory ctd trail adjust shock
Fox 34 talas 160-130 factory fork
Rockshox reverb
Hope hubs stans flow ex rims with rock razor rear and hans dampf front set up tubeless
shimano saint Ispec shifter
shimano xt brakes with 180mm discs
Race face narrow wide 34t ring on slx cranks
Blackspire einfacx top guide
shimano xt 11-36 cassette
shimano zee shadow+ rear mech
raceface atlas saddle
hope headset
hope BB
Raceface atlas 50mm stem
Chromag cutlass carbon bars with Raceface half nelson grips
shimano xt trail spds

Well just had the 2nd test ride and have ordered a Large raw spitfire frame!

Does anyone know if X fusion sweep will take 26" wheels? Was recommended them as an alternative to pikes.

Yes they can as they are 650b forks, although they have the offset for 650b so not sure what that'll be like with the 26 wheels. I have a set for sale if your interested as I've just upgraded to Fox 36s

Thanks mate, I did read about the offset so thats a concern, perhaps id be better with the slants.