Per the topic name I have a shocking bad back at the moment - I have bulged discs at L5 and L4 and the L5 is pressing on the nerve. I started physio this week and had a nerve block injection last week.
I’m hoping to start some mtb again soon - I currently have a 2022 carbon Top Fuel and a 2021 carbon Sentinel. I’m considering selling the Sentinel and switching it for a similar type of bike - but with a motor. I don’t want a hugely heavy sled with an 800wh type battery - thinking Bosch SX with a 400w sort of battery.
My only experiences of e-bikes before are a couple of goes on a Cube full power bike and Rise mid power bike. I much preferred the Rise as it didn’t feel like a runaway train downhill.
Thinking 160-170mm front travel then 150-160mm rear travel for the new bike (subject to the Sentinel selling).
So far I’m liking:
Transition Regulator SX (essentially a sentinel with a motor) - although really it’s too expensive.
Merida eOne Sixty 6000 SL. I know on a lot of these threads people say just go for max power / battery but I preferred the feel of a more normal bike. Eco on the Rise felt like enough of a boost - just me on a super good day.
Ideally I’d be paying no more than £4k so probably looking for a sale bike. I don’t want super budget suspension on it - ideally a Zeb / 38 / 36 / Lyrik / Z1. From what I hear with the extra weight of an ebike the level of damper doesn’t matter so much.
What other bikes am I missing?
When recovering from long covid I used a borrowed ebike for a few months. It was good in the sense that it got me out riding when I wouldn't otherwise have been able to but I was absolutely desperate to get back on a proper bike again, ebikes just aren't the same.
I don't know what your prognosis is, but if this is just a temporary measure until you can ride properly again I would be looking to borrow one rather than selling a current bike and buying one. If you can't then buy whichever has the lowest depreciation so that you can get a decent bike again when you are able to use it
I’m not looking to be talked out of buying a new bike - just after some bike suggestions that meet the approximate travel / intention / sx motor really.
those Whyte E-lyte bikes seem very good. BiL got one, looks great and rides really well.
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will? Could it actually be detrimental? I assume you've taken expert medical advice? Yes, there will be less pedal pressure, but the essential biomechanics are no different from any other bike and potentially worse if you have to lift it, manhandle it, or potentially just with coping with the extra bulk on more nadgery trails. It may make more sense to focus on rehab. Not trying to talk you out of buying a bike, just curious as to how it will actually help with your back issue.
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will?
I was going to write something similar as a veteran of the same issues, but I figured if it promoted gentle movement and exercise that's probably the best thing in the short term, so long as you're not using the extra speed and suspension to go slamming into rougher terrain whilst (presumably) sat relatively upright...
I recovered with gentle social road rides (position on the bike wasn't crazy relaxed, bars level with the saddle maybe) and gradually just went back to normal. In the long term I'm discovering that often the hardest rides feel best because I'm utilising the glutes and hamstrings properly which offloads the low back muscles (all that stuff about engaging and activating glutes when riding is solid gold, you might THINK you do, but it takes conscious effort initially at least). Twiddling about gently whilst sat up makes it more difficult to get the glutes engaged which results in the low back working harder (your muscle function may be better than mine of course!).
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will? Could it actually be detrimental? I assume you've taken expert medical advice? Yes, there will be less pedal pressure, but the essential biomechanics are no different from any other bike and potentially worse if you have to lift it, manhandle it, or potentially just with coping with the extra bulk on more nadgery trails. It may make more sense to focus on rehab. Not trying to talk you out of buying a bike, just curious as to how it will actually help with your back issue.
I’ve generally found over the years that putting loads of pressure through the pedals when seated and going uphill tends to add tension to my lower back. I find spinning faster with less torque through the pedals helps - but when on a heavy bike going up a steep ish hill this is impossible.
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will? Could it actually be detrimental? I assume you've taken expert medical advice? Yes, there will be less pedal pressure, but the essential biomechanics are no different from any other bike and potentially worse if you have to lift it, manhandle it, or potentially just with coping with the extra bulk on more nadgery trails. It may make more sense to focus on rehab. Not trying to talk you out of buying a bike, just curious as to how it will actually help with your back issue.
I’ve generally found over the years that putting loads of pressure through the pedals when seated and going uphill tends to add tension to my lower back. I find spinning faster with less torque through the pedals helps - but when on a heavy bike going up a steep ish hill this is impossible.
I guess it depends on whether you're viewing it as a mental health thing or part of rehab. I've just spent almost a year rehabbing a bust right knee, which has kept me off the mountain bike for months and my focus has basically been on doing everything I can to strengthen my legs, knee, core to reduce the chances of it happening again. It feels like an investment in future running / biking / walking etc. Not the most interesting thing I've ever done, but if it works, which - touch wood - it seems to be doing, then I view it as worthwhile.
But mostly I was curious.
Start Fitness Have some Transition Relay's in budget if you use the code and Merlin still have the discounted Santa Cruz Heckler depending what size you want
Transition
STARTFITNESS.CO.UK
If it must be a Bosch SX then there are plenty about discounted at the likes of Wheelbase, Treadz, Biketart, MTB Monster, Sunset MTB, Winstanleys, etc.
Thanks all - the Relay would be right up there if the Fazua motor wasn’t so unreliable - plus Porsche have pulled the plug on Fazua too and discontinued bike motor operations. Makes me wonder how long you could get replacement motors for…..
I guess the TQ60 motor might be alright. From what I’ve read the 50 is unreliable but the 60 is better.
As an aside (I am NOT a doctor), physio did little to help my disc issues, to the point the physio said I should try acupuncture as there was little more they could do. Well, after months of unsuccessful physio I had acupuncture and what a revelation. Had about 6 sessions over a couple of weeks and what an improvement. Over the years if it ever flares up again I have a few acupuncture sessions and it clears it up, never been back to the physio again. Might be worth seeing if you can find a good acupuncturist.
as for the bike, no idea.
Can you borrow/hire/test some e-bikes to find if your back is ok with them and/or if it helps with rehab too?
Weirdly I find riding a singlespeed helps my (permanently) bad knee and when my SI joint was playing up recently I tried all sorts of things to stop it hurting and when nothing worked I went for a bike ride - and the singlespeed fixed it! I’m sure it’s because I have to stand up lots when I don’t have gears and my body is happier pedalling hard like that than staying seated.
I tried acupuncture and it helped literally for a few hours each time before resetting back to just as bad sadly. Same for sports massage.
Nerve Root block seems to gradually be taking effect and reducing the pain but need the physio to try and get things strengthened.
L4/L5 micro discectomy surgery survivor here. I have an ebike lite (trek Fuel exe).
My back is prone to occasional spasms - every year or so. Different 'causes' each time.
Does the ebike help? Yes, it helps me ride. Definitely feel like I'm pushing less through my pelvis when riding. It's terrific for just getting out and about.
But manuals, or any manoeuvre where I need to push through the front of the bike using my core worries me a lot. I did a bunny hop (over a pile of horse poo) and completely spannered my back a year or so ago. Nothing that a load of ibuprofen, a few days laying on a floor, stretches and two physio appointments couldn't sort, but the weight of the bike doesn't help.
So it's not a panacea but I think it can help. I'd say as part of a mixed exercise/stretch routine it can work, but don't be thinking that an ebike (or any bike) is particularly compatible with your injury. YMMV.
Thanks - I’ve been managing a back issue with these 2 discs for about 14 ish years. Originally when I did it (weight lifting) I had a nerve block injection and physio at the time and eventually calmed it down. Like you, over the years it flares up and down and I do cold / heat / nsaids / painkillers / stretching / physio whenever it’s bad. Just this most recent time the pain came on so quick my normal stuff hasn’t worked. The physio seems to think we can get back to relatively normal in 6-10 weeks but there’s always that doubt as not everyone does.
I’ll keep the top fuel for normal bike - that’s about 30lbs all in and flies along.
Lifting an e-bike will do your mangled spine no favors.
Lifting an e-bike will do your mangled spine no favors.
I get that - wouldn’t be planning to lift it much. I don’t do hike a bike type stuff.
Getting on and of it might be struggle as well.Perhaps,as suggested above, a super light single speed might work for you.
When recovering from long covid I used a borrowed ebike for a few months. It was good in the sense that it got me out riding when I wouldn't otherwise have been able to but I was absolutely desperate to get back on a proper bike again, ebikes just aren't the same.
I don't know what your prognosis is, but if this is just a temporary measure until you can ride properly again I would be looking to borrow one rather than selling a current bike and buying one. If you can't then buy whichever has the lowest depreciation so that you can get a decent bike again when you are able to use it
I bought an ebike after a few years of hips issues they are bloody brilliant
ebikes just aren't the same.
indeed they are better. But perhaps not for a person with a bad back
I have a ‘light ish’ ebike 20.5kg. It took me ages to get used to even controlling it opening gates etc on hills. After 3 hours riding your upper body can be very tired.
Then you have to lift the thing into a car etc
Id stick analogue and do plenty of exercises recommend by physio
I can’t think of anything worse than riding a singlespeed. Also physio recommended sticking to full suspension bikes for now. I do have a hardtail already should I want to ride one but been recommended not to at the moment. I always find riding hardtail harder work and really have to be in the mood for it - even though I have a superb hardtail.
I’ve had back issues since my thirties, including surgery.
20 years later I’ve had to get an e-bike due to arthritis issues in my knees. My back does not like the e-bike. Sure it’s great to ride, but day to day maintenance, transporting it etc aggravates my back.
For me, aside physio etc, reducing the reach of my bike(s) helped the most. Higher bars, shorter stems, downsizing from large to ML
Stopping single speeding really helped too.
I have a gravel ebike to help me with my long covid issues and it's great. Mostly tarmac, odd bit of light off-road.
But before long covid, riding my older bikes more '17-'22 besides ~5 mile commutes helped strengthen my weak back I've had since '08.
If your legs and cardio are decent, couldn't you either tweak an existing bike, or buy something with a bit less reach and/or more stack?
Position on my mtbs is alright - relatively high front ends and nothing extreme reach wise. I think running probably contributed to the flare up along with ramping up the length and intensity of road bike commutes too fast after some other medical issues last year.
i’m 5’9 with longer legs / shorter torso and arms - Sentinel is 451mm reach and Trek is 465mm. Both have spacers under the stem and riser bars (25mm / 38mm respectively).
My 25kg Turbo Levo lives in the house, so going for a ride means getting it onto the back wheel to wheel it outside, dropping it back to the floor to lean it against the wall, open the gate at the top of the steps, back up onto the back wheel, roll/carry up the steps, put it back down, etc.
If I want to put it in the van, its front wheel first, then hoik the back wheel in after.
I couldn't imagine doing this with a bad back.
I've been nursing a bad shoulder for the last two years, which is finally improving but I do think the e-bike has slowed this recovery, due to both the manhandling of it and the extra effort involved in muscling it down steep, tight trails. That said, I wouldn't change a thing, I love it.
So I think you are definitely right to go with a lighter bike and good luck with your recovery, if it gets you back out riding, it's probably the answer.
Maybe it’s the thought it’ll get me back riding quicker as well that’s motivating it. It was a big effort after breaking my collarbone, then appendix / part bowel removal last year to start getting some fitness back again - prior to my back then playing up.
I don’t think my upper body strength is too much of an issue - I was lifting weights before my issue - I know from the last certain things to avoid like deadlifts / back squats / RDLs / stiff leg deadlifts etc.
Assuming my physio gets me going with less pain I’m going to start going to a local Pilates class once a week as that’s been recommended to me by a number of people.
On the bike front I’ve found the Mondraker Dune online now - I think that’s how my number one choice ahead of the Regulator (on cosy grounds) and Merida (on desirability / lightness).
Stuck the Sentinel on Pinkbike and see what happens (or doesn’t happen bearing in mind how dead the secondhand bike market is).
This might be specific to me, but I found ebikes made any knee and back pain and general aches and pains worse, not better.
There is no resistance training, and you're much more likely to sit in one position, especially if full suspension. The motor carries you up hills.
As someone mentioned above, singlespeed really helped. A normal geared hardtail would also help.
You're forced to push pedals hard, stand up, use your whole body, so you build muscle, similar to physio
Ymmv
A mate has a Levo SL which rides beautifully. The motor isn't Bosch but Specialized warranty support is awesome. There are lots of those around for £4k. Upgrade the rythm fork to a Performance Elite from Merlin for £450 and you're onto a real winner.
This might be specific to me, but I found ebikes made any knee and back pain and general aches and pains worse, not better.
There is no resistance training, and you're much more likely to sit in one position, especially if full suspension. The motor carries you up hills.
As someone mentioned above, singlespeed really helped. A normal geared hardtail would also help.
You're forced to push pedals hard, stand up, use your whole body, so you build muscle, similar to physio
Ymmv
Thanks for this - cranking hard / slow is generally the worst thing for me. I ache most after riding the hardtail.
Prior to breaking my collarbone last year I was in the best shape I’d been in ages. I’d been seeing a PT from time to time and she’s crated me 3 circuit sessions that I was doing weekly - with the key aiming to build leg endurance and core strength and I was feeling better in my bike than I ever had. Just gutting the injuries I had that destroyed that (for now). Hope to get back to all round training soonest.
i ached a lot as well even after a few miles, asked physio, he said its problem so long as they went within 24-48hrs otherwise its a sign you've pushed yourself too far, making it worse.
I think back and knee were all connected for me. Knee pain got worse -> altered postured/movement to prevent knee pain -> stopped using corresponding muscles -> back and knee pain got worse etc.
At its worst i couldn't walk up stairs without a handrail or cycle at all without the ebike.
I'm fine now though, run up starirs, 40 miles on singlespeed a few weeks back.
So whatever you do, try not to lose too much hope, you can get fitness back
I’m going to go against singlespeeds, no matter how much I love them. Singlespeeding is bad for ‘my’ back.
Had issues for about 20 years after a herniated disk, probably from shifting 450kg gas bottles about.
My e-bike isn’t great for my back, as in the day to day shifting it about, working on it etc. Riding it is a great and it means I can protect my arthritic knee.
What helped relieve ‘my’ back, (aside from surgery and physio) was moving to shorter reach bikes or reducing the reach on bikes I already own.
Hardtails don’t cause me an issue, as long as I stay stay active on the bike and dont just plonk my arse on the saddle and spin.
I have a lightweight Mondraker Neat and a full fat Mondraker Crafty. I also spent a week or two on the lightweight Merida with the SX (it was a loaner demo bike). The Neat is 18.5kg and sound ideal for what you want. It’s like a normal bike, but with a rider who has supercharged legs. But if I was buying again, I’d go for a Bosch SX rather than the TQ 50. I’ve been spoiled by the full power Bosch, and the TQ50 feels weak by comparison.
On the other hand, The Merida was a superb bike, and I’d be very happy with that as my only bike.
However, if I was buying today, and I wanted to stay lightweight, I think I’d buy the Mondraker Dune, which has the SX.
Hardtails don’t cause me an issue, as long as I stay stay active on the bike and dont just plonk my arse on the saddle and spin.
MTB bike fit is pretty basic compared to road stuff. Most of us, I suspect don't really think hard about crank length, stance width, saddle set-back, reach and handlebar drop, cleat position etc, at least in terms of optimal biomechanics. I get that some of this is because mountain bikers tend to be in and out of the saddle rather than just sat there like roadies, but even so, I do wonder how many of us are carrying aches and chronic injuries simply because our bikes are just badly set up.
For perspective, it took me several decades of riding on and off road to realise that the stance width on road cranksets and, to a lesser extent, gravel ones, is significantly narrower than mtb ones and that, in turn, might just be contributing to the medial knee aches I developed when riding lots on road and gravel. Fitted SQlab +8mm pedals to my gravel bike and bingo, knee aches pretty much gone. Switching to 165mm cranks on all my bikes also seems to have helped.
All a little off topic I guess, but if you are having issues, it's very much worth thinking about how your bike fits and whether your current set-up is biomechanically compromised.
@joebristol I didn't realise/forgot you had been through so many health issues in recent years, iirc like me you were around 4W/Kg in the early covid years and when typing my reply yesterday, I thought that was still the case for you.
I'm a fraction under 5'10" these days, but sounds like opposite proportions to you, short legs and big torso so I typically have 71-72cm saddle height top from bottom bracket. My 18" Voodoo Marasa is ~433/545mm reach/stack with 60mm stem and flat bar; my "58cm" Cube Attain is 388/610mm with 110mm adjustable stem (often horizontal or pointing down these days); my medium GT eGrade Bolt is ~386/577mm with 90mm stem.
Until snagging the cable recently and so having to stop using it immediately, I'd become far more reliant on my Homedics chair shiatsu massager since long covid, because I can't ride like I could four years ago, so my lower back plays up far more often than it did '17-'22.
Ebike weight was a major consideration for me, because I have to take my bikes up/down a flight of stairs and I can't lift as much as I could even when my lower back is ok. As supplied without pedals, my GT was just under 15Kg. The Mahle SP1 battery extender has added ~1.5Kg to this when fitted and I've lost one of my 750ml bottle holders for the SP1 bracket. When fitted for longer or more motor help, I can really feel the extra SP1 weight when carrying the ebike.
I dunno, this sounds a bit counter-intuitive. For starters, ebikes are effing heavy/ a pain to lift - enough that I'd be worrying about doing my back lifting it out the car etc. Second, bike fit may be really important; if (say) your saddle's too low or you're bent a bit wrong when sitting spinning, would it not make the back issues worse??
Although I haven’t suffered anything as nasty as your damaged disc, for me, it’s been a case of trial and error. With my stupid knee, i’ve found that keeping the knee joint more open when riding is critical as my actual problem is a lack of ankle joint mobility due to a bad break. So I pedal a lot standing up and ride short cranks for my height.
I also find that the wider Q of an ebike is better, but on my hardtail I’m on big flat pedals which allow me a wider stance. I’m not sure I could ride road bikes, I think being in a static position on the saddle for hours would hurt my knee. Not sure I could do running either... In the gym I stopped doing squats etc because the knee didn’t like it and the singlespeed is plenty of leg strength training in a way that my body seems to like.
On the ebike front mine is an old Levo (Gen 2) and I’ve not tried any others because I don’t want to stop liking it so much! It’s annoying to put on the roof of my (quite tall) car and rapid slalom turns are hard work compared to a normal bike but otherwise it’s great, it allows me to choose the amount of effort I put in. I still pedal a lot standing at lower cadence even though dropping some gears and sitting and spinning gets more power out of the motor.
On the other hand, a friend of mine damaged his Achilles badly last year and although he’s back riding now after months in a boot, he’s sold his (recent) Levo because it’s too heavy for him to safely get up and down the steps to his house without risking that tendon again.
Literally I couldn’t imagine anything worse than a singlespeed. My knees have had a few bashes over the years and they do not appreciate high torque pit through them for any length of time. Riding my road bike is well down the list at the moment as even though it’s actually a gravel bike with a high front end it’s still more lower back stress / tension than mtb.
Ive found with my lower back a sit and spin rather than crank works better for me. Also standing up and cranking on a full suss is largely pointless with plush suspension.
Im not too worried about transporting an ebike - it’ll live in a garage / doesn’t need to go up and down stairs and the only thing will be putting it on the roof of the car. Needs to be 20kg or less for the bike carrier limit. Mondraker Dyne is massively ticking boxes on motor / battery size / overall weight / suspension travel for gnar type stuff.
In terms of sitting for hours on end in the same position that just doesn’t happen for my type of riding. I’m not a long bridleway / scenic sort of rider. I mostly go up then down - the up bit is just to get the gradient for the down. I’ll be moving all over the bike a lot of the time.
I’ll have a look at the Levos based on a few comments as we have Certini in Bristol for support. I just read a lot about Brose motors failing - more so than Bosch.
I guess it’s peak STW asking for ebike advice and being told to get a singlespeed 🤣
the only thing will be putting it on the roof of the car. Needs to be 20kg or less for the bike carrier limit
When my back has been bad or I’ve been recovering, there is no way I’d be lifting any weight bike onto the roof of a car.
It’d have to be a rear carrier or van for me.
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will? Could it actually be detrimental? I assume you've taken expert medical advice? Yes, there will be less pedal pressure, but the essential biomechanics are no different from any other bike and potentially worse if you have to lift it, manhandle it, or potentially just with coping with the extra bulk on more nadgery trails. It may make more sense to focus on rehab. Not trying to talk you out of buying a bike, just curious as to how it will actually help with your back issue.
IMHO Can’t see any reason other than motivational or new bike excuse to be bothering with an ebike 🙂
I’d also not discount sticking an existing bike on a smart trainer and taking up zwift for a few months until you’re rehabilitated.
(Then buy an ebike if you still want one 🙂 mmm amflow )
I'd be asking whether it will genuinely help with your bad back - are you sure it will? Could it actually be detrimental? I assume you've taken expert medical advice? Yes, there will be less pedal pressure, but the essential biomechanics are no different from any other bike and potentially worse if you have to lift it, manhandle it, or potentially just with coping with the extra bulk on more nadgery trails. It may make more sense to focus on rehab. Not trying to talk you out of buying a bike, just curious as to how it will actually help with your back issue.
IMHO Can’t see any reason other than motivational or new bike excuse to be bothering with an ebike 🙂
I’d also not discount sticking an existing bike on a smart trainer and taking up zwift for a few months until you’re rehabilitated.
(Then buy an ebike if you still want one 🙂 mmm amflow )
I’ve already got a road bike on a Wahoo Kickr Setup in the garage. My Zwift account is paused at the moment whilst I rehab. As soon as the physio gives the go ahead I’ll do some gentle spinning on there. Should be able to sort out a free app to use for basic control of it.
“I guess it’s peak STW asking for ebike advice and being told to get a singlespeed 
”
I’m definitely not saying “get a singlespeed” in my prior posts - I’m saying that what you think might be the answer (ie an ebike) might not be the answer, and buying one is a really expensive way to find that out! But an ebike might be the answer - so find a way to try one/some to see if they work for you.
My point about the singlespeed was illustrating that what most people would assume is a bad thing for a a dodgy knee is actually a good thing - to the point that I’m trying to figure out how to get that “singlespeed physio” when I’m on a long family holiday without any bikes and too many hours driving (it doesn’t like driving much but it dislikes seats in old theatres with minimal legroom the most).
It sounds like an ebike could be good - but I’d also be wary of getting a lower power one if you’re having to pedal soft on steep climbs when your back is being most difficult. But I think some of the light ones are now similar torque to my whole full fat bike.
I used an Ebike to good effect, when I actually couldn’t ride any distance due to my weight (138kg)
it also helped massively when I was recovering from a fractured ankle, because when I started to get tired/painful I could turn the assistance up to get home.
I have recently bought a new one, a full power hardtail, complete with 800wh battery.
i think the OP is right to consider the weight when manoeuvring it, that’s when it would be a problem.
riding, not so much.
I also agree 100% with whoever said up above that they don’t feel like a normal bike, they absolutely don’t.
one massive positive with an ebike though, is that they make any normal bike feel like a pure race bike after you’ve been moving an ebike around.
