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Can you explain how she hoped to profit from miss #2?
Irrelevant as she broke the rules and UKAD & CAS still consider it a missed test.
Irrelevant as she broke the rules and UKAD & CAS still consider it a missed test.
Bull shit.
People are trying to prove motive to go with opportunity to provide guilt.
She made a mistake (the entire reason you get 3.strikes) during a period of stress. If she had been tested (attempted) then it would be a much bigger marker. So far she has 2 strikes and neither to me sound that suspicious.
There was a work convention where only you were called for a drug and alcohol test the boss might not see you and ask if you were on holiday that day... It really doesn't sound like that
Irrelevant as she broke the rules and UKAD & CAS still consider it a missed test.
Agreed she has to take the rap for it.
But it's very relevant to our speculation on whether she's actually doping or not.
I'm not saying she is the new Lance, just pointing out that the statement reminded me of that attitude, hence the comment about arrogance. The whole thing, from the missed tests to the ensuing fallout and the statement she's released has been dealt with quite poorly really. As has already been covered, she's not the only one at fault.
Don't really understand the keyboard warrior reference. I suppose as you've called it I'll take the controversial step of continuing to express my opinions on an internet forum without aiming to deliberately upset anyone.
Very simplistic to pick that line (though god knows why she wrote it, the idiot!) and proclaim that she's the new Lance.
It would be, if anyone had done so.
The whole thing, from the missed tests to the ensuing fallout and the statement she's released has been dealt with quite poorly really. As has already been covered, she's not the only one at fault.
Don't really understand the keyboard warrior reference
Fact time...
She has missed one test. Keyboard Warrior is due to the misuse of facts.
hrob - MemberAgreed. The "I've never failed a drugs test" reminds me of someone...
But she immediately followed it with "I have never taken drugs" so it's a pretty silly observation- Armstrong used "never failed" to avoid saying "never took".
mickmcd - Memberim told very often if I could keep my **** mouth shut and learn people skills I would probably rip a lot of trees up
You're an elephant?
Very simplistic to pick that line (though god knows why she wrote it, the idiot!) and proclaim that she's the new Lance.It would be, if anyone had done so.
OK that was a bit dramatic, I know nobody has accused her of bullying her whole team into doping.
I agree her statement doesn't do her any favours.
It's nice that she wants to sidestep the PR machine but can you imagine the facepalms as BC's press office read "I have never tested positive for a banned substance?"
And the general tone is a bit too confrontational IMO. Why not just say "yep, I ****ed up it was my fault... but x, y and z". Though maybe that's why she's world champ and I'm a keyboard warrior.
Glad we are not in medieval times as if Singletrack haters would of had her burnt at the stake for being a Witch. I know how Chris Froome must feel with the French press and haters judging him.
Don't really understand the keyboard warrior reference.
I dunno but I did like her dig at the twitter Army
Glad we are not in medieval times as if Singletrack haters would of had her burnt at the stake for being a Witch.
Has anyone actually accused her of doping? More that the whole episode is shady and that any medals would be tainted by suspicion. You fanboys swallow anything, us 'haterz' have heard it/seen it all before, we know how it goes down. You don't seem to be able to even contemplate a Brit might dope...
I know how Chris Froome must feel with the French press and haters judging him.
Well, as per above, we've seen it all before. It's either the most astonishing turnaround and Froome is the greatest [b]ever[/b] cyclist or.... Well, it's the same old story. You know, like [i]all[/i] the others. Personally I'm not swallowing it. Time will tell.
Has anyone actually accused her of doping?
Well, it's the same old story. You know, like all the others. Personally I'm not swallowing it.
So basically accusing them of doping, at least indirectly. Accusing them of covering up or hiding something shady. 😕
Well, she was temporarily banned, was less than truthful about reasons for not racing and the National Cycling Federation has a conflict of interest but gave her legal advise. Just what do [b]you[/b] call it? Had they been upfront and honest about things (you know, more like the Yates case) then perhaps I'd be less suspicious.
But, yeah, I'm calling Froome out. But that's just my opinion. If it passes the smell test for you, crack on.
ETA: yeah, I'm letting my opinions on Froome/Sky (and thereby the obvious connections with/to BC) cloud matters. I'm suspicious by default now.
I read the long, heartfelt personal statement she put out today on Facebook (and probably other place).
That to me looked like a very genuine, honest piece of writing. I'm quite convinced she is clean, though maybe a bit disorganised at times.
Ive just been reading the Tyler Hamilton book which is quite good if I'm honest. Rings a bell about how to avoid the testing with having last minute changes to location and hiding/not answering (switching phones off) and how you can be 'glowing' one day and ok the next.
Doesnt prove anything with armistead but for me does raise serious doubts!
Dont get me started on Mo Farahs coach!!
[quote=dragon ]Worth noting that CAS only let her off because of the 1st test. They didn't accept her excuses for missing the 2nd & 3rd. Which begs the question are they still 'live' and is she only one missed test away from a ban still?
My understanding is that she didn't try and use any excuses for the 2nd and 3rd incidents as she knew (possibly following legal advice) that she was bang to rights for those - whereas she did apparently query the first one at the time, even if not going so far as the formal process of disputing it. So yes she is on 2 strikes until October.
Like others on here I'm really not seeing all the smoke (and assuming fire) that some of the keyboard warriors are. I'm curious which of the 2 occasions where she's had a miss recorded against her she was microdosing the day before a race and trying to avoid the testers - was it the post worlds one in October, or the Thursday in June this year a week before the Aviva British Tour?
She's one of us and a nice white lass - must be ok surely? 😯
"We" don't do that sort of thing.
Nice insinuation THM. What she isn't is from some country where doping is endemic, nor is there any evidence at all linking her to doping. If she was from a different country I'd simply not be interested enough to look into all the details to establish for myself whether or not anything looked suspicious. Do you think it looks suspicious and that she was trying to avoid the testers, and what is your basis for that?
Nice insinuation THM. What she isn't is from some country where doping is endemic
Of course, as I said "we" don't do that kind of thing do we? We are Persll pure....
Try reading, try comprehending, try not snipping relevant context and once you can manage that try not posting strawmen
Lizzie has been cleared to ride by everyone who actually counts. Those people who actually have all the facts to make that decision. 7 pages of mostly bile and ill informed rubbish from STW posters ( honourable exceptions not included ) I very much get the impression that some on here want successful athletes to fall foul of doping regs, guilty or not !! Why I don't know, maybe be looking for flaws in others it somehow masks their own dull humdrum existence 🙁
Ok. I can sleep easy knowing that we are the good guys of pro sport. Phew....
teamhurtmore - Member
Ok. I can sleep easy knowing that we are the good guys of pro sport. Phew....
I think the main point thm is that if it wasn't for the inept tester we would know nothing about this and would be sleeping easy. People are making connections that would be dismissed on a jhj conspiracy thread as if they are fact.
Isn't funny how Lizzie always has someone else to blame, this time it's an 'inept tester'. Maybe he failed to up grade his crystal ball to discerned her undisclosed room number.
You buy into the cycling is clean now (which version are we on now, I remember the post Festina version when they magicked up a backdated TUE for Armstrongs steroid test, I'm pretty sure that was version 1.0) that's fine, you're satisfied. Sorry, but I'm not.
And we are not producing things as 'fact' we are saying there are different possible narratives to explain what after all was a temporary(/provisional?) suspension FFS! And this was beaten after legal advice which was provided (sorry, 'shared') by her cycling federation (who have a vested financial interest FFS). But you're right, it's all explained, inept tester. Move along now, nothing to see....
It seems to me you are failing to see [i]any[/i] smoke because it's [i]all[/i] being blown up your arse.
Whilst I think Lizzie is clean and should be going to Rio she should accept a large part of the responsibility for the situation she's found herself in. Even the missed test that was expunged she was partly at fault for by not following guidance on providing room numbers.
She seems to have gone into victim mode and on the defensive, possibly forced into it as the Mail etc. are out for blood but it ends up with her coming across as disingenuous
As Tyler Hamilton said in his book it is better to miss tests/not be available than get caught doping. You get caught doping and your career is over, no money, no sponsorship......He also mentioned doctors prescribing things, cortisone i think under the therapitic medical loophole.
I find it really difficult for you to be at the top of your physical sport without assistance, and not just cycling. But things like athletics and boxing.
You buy into the cycling is clean now (which version are we on now, I remember the post Festina version when they magicked up a backdated TUE for Armstrongs steroid test, I'm pretty sure that was version 1.0) that's fine, you're satisfied. Sorry, but I'm not.
So ARE you accusing her of doping, then?
So ARE you accusing her of doping, then?
No, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible. I don't believe that doping has been eradicated from cycling (i.e. Not believing in the we are all clean now that you guys seem to accept as gospel). So if there's still doping, hey, it's just possible that she [i]might[/i] be. Apparently this counts as a witch hunt! Or is it simply a thoughtcrime?
It's also possible that she's the victim of BC's apparent contempt for female cyclists (and mountain bikers) and they've left her Insufficiently supported and she's just simply ****ed things up. Because she [i]has[/i] ****ed things up (hence the original suspension). Remember that small fact? It was the AD authorities that sanctioned her for anti-doping irregularities (albeit failure to present for testing than for failing a test).
Even the missed test that was expunged she was partly at fault for by not following guidance on providing room numbers.
Fantastic guidance, but how few hotels on earth run on a system where you could get an allocated room number before check-in? While other testers have stated openly that the tester in this case doesn't seem to have made reasonable efforts to contact her (they reckon that once you start flashing anti-doping credentials then the hotel staff invariably contact the guest)
In other news, BBC hour long programme about Mo Farah last night, off season training in Ethiopia, no discussion of the testing regime that seemingly doesn't exist out there, makes you think, eh?
all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible
The reason this thread's now on page eight is because nobody apart from Lizzie (and possibly her dealer) know if she's actually doping.
I understand it may be harder to admit uncertainty than to adopt blind faith on one side or the other, but that's what the situation calls for.
No, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible. I don't believe that doping has been eradicated from cycling
Ok just working from the facts here.
First test massive cock up on the testers behalf. They didn't do their job correctly. CAS accepted it and ruled that.
2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test - her PA had left without anyone telling her.
There may not be smoke without fire but is this actually smoke?
In the world of "beyond resonable doubt" she is walking free here
on the balance of probability she is fine
the only world where she isn't is the I'm not calling her a doper but you know she is.... witch hunt proportions.
You can update the details into the Whereabouts app easy enough though once you've checked in (and yes that should be a priority as a professional athlete).
Whilst I think Lizzie is clean and should be going to Rio she should accept a large part of the responsibility for the situation she's found herself in.
This +1.
Ok just working from the facts here.
First test massive cock up on the testers behalf. They didn't do their job correctly. CAS accepted it and ruled that.
2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test - her PA had left without anyone telling her.There may not be smoke without fire but is this actually smoke?
In the world of "beyond resonable doubt" she is walking free here
on the balance of probability she is fine
the only world where she isn't is the I'm not calling her a doper but you know she is.... witch hunt proportions.
This^^^^
I'm not calling her a doper but you know she is....
Go on, quote me where I say I know she's a doper. Because I deliberately haven't as I categorically don't know. But, hey, don't let that get in the way of your little rant.
And btw you missed out in the first case how LA massively cocked up by NOT ADVISING ANTI DOPING CORRECTLY OF HER WHEREABOUTS (i.e. room number) which is how all this started in the first place. [b]She[/b] didn't do [b]her[/b] job properly either. You know, seen as [b]you're[/b] throwing blame around.
I understand it may be harder to admit uncertainty than to adopt blind faith on one side or the other, but that's what the situation calls for.
Exactly, I'm accepting the uncertainty.
"we" don't do that kind of thing do we?
Junior time trial champ admitted doping
Even the winner of last years Gorrick 12:12 was cheating 😯
metalheart - MemberNo, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible.
I haven't seen a single post that suggests this tbh. What most people are saying is, there's no evidence of doping. There's no evidence of intentional test evasion. There's lots of misunderstanding/intentional misrepresentation (even on here people are still saying "3 missed tests". As someone said above, we're not even in "no smoke without fire" territory, we're in "hey, can you smell smoke" "Mmm, maybe, I can smell something unusual". And even if we were at "no smoke without fire" that's [i]still[/i] not enough. It's basically nothing at all.
[url= http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15234/10523336/lizzie-armitstead-says-she-can-look-fellow-olympic-athletes-in-the-eye ]Interview with Lizzie on Sky[/url]
Exactly, I'm accepting the uncertainty.
Fair enough, your comment above seemed very jaundiced on the subject and as if you were presuming guilt.
I doubt anyone here thinks we should not be sceptical about cyclists, riders are still getting busted so we all know it's happening.
2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test - her PA had left without anyone telling her.
It is the 3rd test she is claiming family reasons and the UKAD don't accept it as an excuse.
Likewise it is solely the athletes responsibly you can't blame your PA, manager, coach or dog etc.
A short notice change of plans can be updated.
Thing is these rules are in place to stop doping, because we know how easy it is and as such they should be upheld.
. There's no (hard) evidence of doping, I can fully agree with that.there's no evidence of doping.
how do you prove intent? There's the 'missed' tests (or filing failure) on three occasions resulting in a suspension. That is fact. One missed test has been struck off by the CAS. You (or I) have no way of knowing LAs intent.There's no evidence of intentional test evasion
If Lizzie wasn't British (say she was Spanish for instance) would you accept things as readily then? Because if she was Russian.... Well....
In other news, BBC hour long programme about Mo Farah last night, off season training in Ethiopia, no discussion of the testing regime that seemingly doesn't exist out there, makes you think, eh?
Thats true, Kenya has only just been removed from WADAs non compliant list, until 2006, doping was 'legal' in Spain, Russia, enough said, Sharapova, football wont even test during major events as FIFA/UEFA doctors will step in to fix it etc.
Basically, sport is corrupt. As cycling fans, we get kicked the hardest and the most often, Lizzie and every other cyclist should follow laws to the letter. The fact they dont and in this case, she didnt means she is either arrogant, stupid or hiding something.
Read this, if she wins gold, it will be a sour win. All because she didnt upload a room number, she is a cretin
Lizzie has been cleared to ride by everyone who actually counts
Only after a legal team paid by her went to CAS, thats quite significant I think. She couldnt be bothered to update her whereabouts but could be bothered to use lawyers to clear her to compete with CAS
Fair enough, your comment above seemed very jaundiced on the subject and as if you were presuming guilt.
I [i]am[/i] very jaundiced, the sport I loved has been so tarnished I find it hard to believe in anyone 100% anymore.
However, I'm not presuming guilt in this case as any 'evidence' is purely circumstantial. My misgivings are stated though.
If it was all a big conspiracy [jivebunny mode]then this is exactly the kind of situation you'd get![/jivebunny mode]
Makes you think.... 😉
There's so much historical baggage in all sports but particularly cycling that unless an athlete never misses a test, never fails a test (either at the time or in the recent incidents of retesting several years later) and is seen (and believed) to be whiter than white that there'll inevitably be some suspicion.
To a degree the current semi-secret testing regimen plays in to the hands of the doubters. If missed tests were announced at the time they could be explained/contested there and then rather than wait until the possibility of a third missed test. If the missed test stood then *everyone* including the athlete would be aware of the fact.
Cycling is, in a way, a victim of its own success in tackling doping so openly: everyone points to cycling saying "another cyclist caught taking drugs" whilst ignoring the fact that their chosen sport doesn't have a problem because they don't test as thoroughly, Football only signed up to the WADA code in 2014 for instance. Wikipedia states testers only appeared at 32 out of 3500 league games in the 1999-2000 which is equivalent to them turning up on one day in three years' worth of TdFs, Vueltas and Giros.