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Wow Karinofnine- respect.
Blimey Karin! That's seriously impressive.
No disrespect meant, but why is it more impressive than a bloke who's done/can do all that stuff?
Wouldn't normally blink if a guy had said something similar.
In my opinion the difference is that women who ride are generally more attractive and sexy than those that dont.
simonfbarnes - Member
I suspect turning sport into competition puts off more than it encourages.
I think SFB has a point here, I know a fair few people (male and femle) who starting to get into biking but were put off by the testosterone-fuelled "I'm better / faster / stronger than you" vibe on rides.
Not in any way saying competition is bad (quite the opposite) but it can and does put off new-comers.
Maybe it's because most bikers I know are downhillers, but I find that women don't tend to be as 'focused' on a hobby such as mountainbiking like guys tend to be. Stereotypically you often find guys who are 'really into' their cars, or their motorbike etc. but I struggle to think of girls I know having 'obsessions' to the same degree.
I personally think my bike looks pretty and it's awesome but my interest doesn't stretch beyond that. I might know how to repair a puncture but in reality I've never had to so I might not even be able to do that!
Also, my own experience suggests that there are some girls out there who are willing to have their minds opened when it comes to 'outdoorsey' activities - I hated camping (still do tbh), no exercise, hated idea of all sports etc. but a guy managed to persuade me to spend hundreds of pounds on a bike and have some fun 😀
If I was still with the guy I think I'd be biking a lot more often than I do but as it is I still enjoy the feeling of being on my bike. I want to improve my skills, fitness and it's opened me up to trying out other activities like climbing - quite fancy the idea of snowboarding and a bit of hiking..
I wouldn't say I was that different to other girls, but I like riding my bike - I'm not necessarily 'into' bikes, which I do think is a very different (and more rare) mindset.
raving, ****ing obsessive ultra-competitive psychos
that's odd, my wife isn't into biking but ...
simonfbarnes - Member
childish in the "Nyeh, nyeh, I'm the king of the castle" way! Who cares who's fastest? If you go faster it's over sooner and you have to wait longer for everyone else. I suspect turning sport into competition puts off more than it encourages I favour cooperation instead.
That's only one very negative view of competition/competitiveness though isn't it - your own prejudices resulting in sweeping generalisations. No doubt, some people are competitive to the point of putting other people (male and female) off riding with them but equally, I know people whose other halves (again, both male and female) have actually been made more keen to ride because they're competitive and had a target of keeping up/getting faster than their other half. And also, I'm pretty sure I recall you commenting about heckling riders to ride technical sections of trails - this is just competition in a less obvious form eg "he rode it so I don't want to be shown to be less good so I'll do it too". Competition with your mates can be great fun so long as it's not taken to extremes and really, what's childish about wanting to be good at something?
Aside from that, the idea that women aren't competitive is hugely patronising too, SFB and I'm pretty suprised that you'd accept it, much less promote it. My experience is that in reality, there are just as many competitive women about as men but that maybe society and expectation makes it more common for women to be less open about it. By the sounds of it, you're happy to re-enforce that stereotype and keep it supressed.
Aidy - MemberNo disrespect meant, but why is it more impressive than a bloke who's done/can do all that stuff?
Wouldn't normally blink if a guy had said something similar.
Probably cecause, as the general tone of the messages on the thread says, it's is very unusual for a woman to do this kind of thing
It's a relic of natural selection.
Young males are expendable. Females have to survive to reproduce.
Joining a warband and raiding the neighbouring tribe has been largely replaced by sport, so it's inevitable that most people who take part in competitive, adventurous or risky activities are male.
[sweeping generalisation]Women see cycling as a way to lose weight. Men see losing weight as a way to cycle faster.[/sweeping generalisation]
to answer your question - yeah my missus is a bit different 😀
And also, I'm pretty sure I recall you commenting about heckling riders to ride technical sections of trails - this is just competition in a less obvious form
I don't agree, I think that's about developing personal ability, not comparison!
Aside from that, the idea that women aren't competitive is hugely patronising too, SFB
I never suggested that. I was talking about *my* attitude.
By the sounds of it, you're happy to re-enforce that stereotype and keep it supressed.
Phooey! I encourage everyone to do better, though at the same time I don't even consider [b]that[/b] very important - having fun is what I care about.
Plus there is the inherent geekiness of owning a modern bike - suspension fettling, tyre choice etc. It's a male borderline autistic spectrum thing.
My wife bought a Stumpjumper full suss as I'd been riding full suss for years - couldn't see the point and went back to her old steel Rockhopper.. and I keep it rolling for her as she has no interest in that cside of it at all.
I don't agree, I think that's about developing personal ability, not comparison!
That's disingenuous - if everyone else was riding down 50foot vertical rock faces then that's what you'd be heckling people on. Of course it's based on comparison. It's development of personal ability that's the end result of the competition, like it or not.
I never suggested that. I was talking about *my* attitude.
So it had no relevance at all to the thread then?
Phooey! I encourage everyone to do better, though at the same time I don't even consider that very important - having fun is what I care about.
For some (most I'd argue) fun, competion in the right way [b]is[/b] fun whether they actually consider it competition or not.
Just reading the above posts.
Two people have commented thus :
I don't race, am not competitive, just like riding my bikes
I like riding my bike a lot, but I consider competition to be childish
One male, one female.
Are we in fact seeing one person, two ID's here on STW?
Come clean Simon & Cinamon, your cover is blown!
I think the OP has his work cut out personally. I see very few ladies out on their mtn bikes, fewer still who have families & get out and train or ride with anything other than a gentle potter around the local wood. Seen no ladies at all so far in 2010 out training.
So it had no relevance at all to the thread then?
suddenly this is "Just a minute" ?
That's disingenuous - if everyone else was riding down 50foot vertical rock faces then that's what you'd be heckling people on
again, disagree. Each person can enjoy personal triumphs in learning to do stuff they previously couldn't, regardless of what anyone else can or cannot do. Nobody wins, there are no points or prizes - or if you like, everybody wins 🙂
For some (most I'd argue) fun, competion in the right way is fun whether they actually consider it competition or not.
is this not just redefining the word to mean what you want ? I consider cooperation to be distinct from competition
That's only one very negative view of competition/competitiveness though isn't it - your own prejudices resulting in sweeping generalisations. No doubt, some people are competitive to the point of putting other people (male and female) off riding with them but equally, I know people whose other halves (again, both male and female) have actually been made more keen to ride because they're competitive and had a target of keeping up/getting faster than their other half. And also, I'm pretty sure I recall you commenting about heckling riders to ride technical sections of trails - this is just competition in a less obvious form eg "he rode it so I don't want to be shown to be less good so I'll do it too". Competition with your mates can be great fun so long as it's not taken to extremes and really, what's childish about wanting to be good at something?Aside from that, the idea that women aren't competitive is hugely patronising too, SFB and I'm pretty suprised that you'd accept it, much less promote it. My experience is that in reality, there are just as many competitive women about as men but that maybe society and expectation makes it more common for women to be less open about it. By the sounds of it, you're happy to re-enforce that stereotype and keep it supressed.
WOW I do bow in front of you. Find me a job and you'll be my hero for toady, or at least the whole week.
Well I'd hope that typically replies have some bearing on the thread. Not sure that makes me Nicholas Parsons 🙂
Each person can enjoy personal triumphs in learning to do stuff they previously couldn't, regardless of what anyone else can or cannot do
Absolutely agree. That doesn't however mean that competition isn't a driver for most people though, no matter how slight.
is this not just redefining the word to mean what you want ? I consider cooperation to be distinct from competition
I don't think so - competition is based on comparison. People like doing things that make them feel special in some way. Doing something better than someone else typically does make people feel good even, again, if it's only a very slight effect in some. People like being 'good' at things. Being 'good' at things is based on comparison.
I'll state again, competitiveness doesn't have to simply be the very narrow, negative stereotype of the sports racer with elbows out type.
juan - MemberWOW I do bow in front of you. Find me a job and you'll be my hero for [b]toady[/b], or at least the whole week.
toady? 🙂 Froggy 🙂
Like what Mrs flash said.
Plus:
People that like being outside in the woods are different to people that don't like being outside in the woods. Its not gender specific IMO, although there appear to be less women like this. Societal and cultural factors? Probably.
To answer the OP. I don't really know, the SO seems like every other girl I know, she just like biking (actually she was sporty like fitness, swimming pool and all). After that don't ask her about bike bits and all, I am the one that deal with it.
yes juan thats for sure
wash it - thats your job she says ..... BUT i can live with that because she uses her bike loads - so i have to wash/maintain it loads - means i get off with doing less in the house occasionally.
There is one advantage to this lack of ladies out on the trails.
I find my eye-line wandering to the rider in front of me if it's a lady.
This can be exactly [i]not[/i] what's needed on technical single track or on a decent as I need to be looking ahead not at what's perched on the saddle 3m infront of me!
Doing something better than someone else typically does make people feel good even, again, if it's only a very slight effect in some
and that's what I'm attacking as needless and childish. Basing your own wellbeing and happiness on comparisons with others invites failure, as for most of us there will always be fitter, handsomer, richer and more able people around. Far better to concentrate on what you [b]can[/b] achieve and hopefully improve!
Hey, don't get me wrong - I'm nowhere near as daring as some men I know (although I plan to see HH the Jedi to see if I can change that).
I agree with the post about nature, nature wants women to survive to give birth and bring up young, whereas males were (are still?) designed to rut and display, donate sperm and perhaps hang around a bit to protect...
I used to do a bit of ride leadering for novices and I noticed that people either "get" mountain biking or they don't. You could actually see the moment when someone "got" it, it was fantastic to see the expression on their face.
Men generally seem to like/do sports and hobbies whereas women don't seem to. The advertising departments of the cycling magazines will tell you they are aiming for C+ males.
BTW, I am, according to the last two exes, 'obsessed' with cycling...
and that's what I'm attacking as needless and childish
That's just human nature I'm afraid. I could just as easily say that all your lusting after women's arses is needless and immature but since it's fun and generally accepted as being human nature, that'd seem like a silly argument to me.
As to the suggestion that competition leads to discontent, I think that's pretty silly too - obviously taken to extreme it is but then most people are well enough balanced for that not to be an issue. Depressive/obsessive types maybe less so.
Just because you're not going to be taking home an Olympic gold, doesn't mean that winning at that level is the only goal that you can target. Getting fitter and being the first to the top of a hill can be perfectly rewarding without having to be a childish or in your face competitive thing.
That's just human nature I'm afraid.
simplistic. It's also human nature to be able to out think raw instinct and shape our perceptions. Only one person can be first - everyone can share the fun of getting there.
I could just as easily say that all your lusting after women's arses is needless and immature
except there's no downside - one can enjoy pure aesthetic pleasure without striving
lusting after women's arses is needless and immature but since it's fun
I don't know about anyone else, but as a hetrosexual male I find myself scratching my head over this strange observation.
As an aside, competition is very good in all walks of life at every level, especially school as it prepares you for adult life.
If not, you'll fall into the wet-liberal approach that insists that no one should fail.
Cue wet-liberal school's approach:
"How about sponsoring me on our school sponsored walk Mister?"
"Sure" I said. "How far and where?"
"Several laps of the 400m running track"
"What! No thanks".
IF that is the same Karin.........
I think that I went for a ride with her a few weeks back........
I was IMPRESSED
simonfbarnes - Member
and that's what I'm attacking as needless and childish
well at least you're talking from first hand knowledge on those two human traits.........
re the competetive side of things, there are different ways to look at it. I am not particularly competetive in terms of "ooh I'm faster/ better than you", but I am VERY competetive against myself - I like the challenge of riding something I haven't done before. It's one of the reasons I like the solos - I don't see them as a race, I see them as a personal challenge to do the most I can do within that 24hrs.
Don't knock Barnes
This country needs Barnes more than he needs it.
but I am VERY competetive against myself
I would argue that was the wrong term in that context. Perhaps 'ambitious'?
simonfbarnes - Member
simplistic. It's also human nature to be able to out think raw instinct and shape our perceptions. Only one person can be first - everyone can share the fun of getting there
Just as everyone can share the fun of competition even if they don't win...
except there's no downside
Plenty of women don't like dirty old men... 😉
I don't think Simon's got the jist of competitiveness at all.
I personally have set times on most every ride I do and as the weather gets dryer, the fitness improves I have to be bettering those times every ride.
That's just my competitive nature.
Not coming last at a race can be just as competitive as trying for the podium.
But really, this has deviated away from the OP.
No, I think competitive is right. I see it like “right last time you got up to x rock, get 5 feet past it” or “last time you were in big sprocket, move down one”. It’s a competition against myself definitely.
I personally have set times on most every ride I do and as the weather gets dryer, the fitness improves I have to be bettering those times every ride
eeeek - edges away from the scary man 🙁
I have no idea how long anything takes me, but suspect taking longer is better as it prolongs the fun :o)
I don't think Simon's got the jist of competitiveness at all.
I'm content to prefer cooperation!
Which possibly makes your thoughts and ideas about competition a little pointless if you don't understand the meaning of the word!
I have 4 bikes and I when I am not riding them I am thinking about them.
I have two female friends and about 15 male friends who are the same.
I got into mountain biking because I used to follow my older brother around like a little sheep, not wanting to miss out on the fun that he and his mates seemed to have and so when they all got mountain bikes, so did I.
If your lady is showing an interest in the sport, then of course, get her to have a go! But if she's only doing it because she wants to spend more time with you then she's unlikely to enjoy it.
Like many others on here, I don't think it is simply an issue of gender. I'd also say that having a competetive nature and mountain biking aren't intrinsically linked. An appreciation for the outdoors is probably a bit of a prerequisite though.
For myself, (Prob relevant to add that I'm 26 and female) I've always been into the outdoors but only discovered mountain biking in the last few years. I enjoy it for its own sake, want to learn a little more about the maintenance side and improve my technical ability but never intend or expect to be more than a casual enthusiast.
P.S. Hello all, btw, I'm new 🙂
Which possibly makes your thoughts and ideas about competition a little pointless if you don't understand the meaning of the word!
I know what it means - I just don't happen to find it useful in biking
and BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, cluelessness about a subject has never been a barrier to entering the discussions on STW 🙂
To say anyone is non-competitive is complete baloney!
That day, you are the very bi-product of the very best, the strongest, the most forceful, the most competitive, simply the most able & capable sperm that your father could produce.
You started off being highly competitive, you will, without knowing it, continue to be so every day of your life, in so many ways, until your dying day.
So it's a false account of your life if you believe, in error, that you are not competitive. Just being you is testament to that fact - you are a living testament, a marvel of evolution itself!
That day, you are the very bi-product of the very best, the strongest, the most forceful, the most competitive, simply the most able & capable sperm that your father could produce.
but I am not the sperm, I merely carry copies of its genes
You started off being highly competitive, you will, without knowing it, continue to be so every day of your life, in so many ways, until your dying day.
I'm not arguing that we aren't competetive creatures, only that I consider it better set aside for cooperation in mountain biking. We need not be slaves to our instincts.
So it's a false account of your life if you believe, in error, that you are not competitive.
I believe I'm better qualified than you to comment on my own motivations, and I prefer a model of activity based on personal, not relative achievement. I strive to do the best I can do, regardless of what others may.
I strive to do the best I can do
Your perception of what the best you can do is will be shaped by what you see is possible. Just look at gymnastics/all sorts of other sports where what was considered amazing even 10 years ago is now pretty standard.
Competition helps most people actually do the best they can do. Obviously you're the exception that proves the rule.
One male, one female.
Are we in fact seeing one person, two ID's here on STW?Come clean Simon & Cinamon, your cover is blown!
LOL at Ti29er 😆
Simon and I have 'known' each other for years on here through various [s]arguments[/s] discussions. 🙄 I do actually agree with most of what he says, dunno if it's an age thing or what.
I just feel strongly that more people are not encouraged to participate in sport generally, both male and female.
Having struggled with massive self-esteem issues for most of my life, sport has been my saviour. Always felt worthless, useless, lacking in self-confidence, frightened of failure so wouldn't attempt anything - too many demons in my head.
There was someone in my head always saying "you're being stupid, you will fail" and I had to fight against that, still do sometimes.
Took up running and at the age of 40, I ran a cross-country marathon. It completely changed me as a person, I stopped feeling rubbish about myself despite not having achieved a sub-4 which I was quite capable of. Had to give up running and took up mtb'ing instead.
You don't need to be competitive to get enjoyment out of participating in a sport!
What really frustrates me now is that I have never reached my full potential. Sport can have such a a positive impact on your life. Old wounds have been reopened and tears are splattering the keyboard so will sign off.
Your perception of what the best you can do is will be shaped by what you see is possible.
but I don't confuse example with competition
Competition helps most people actually do the best they can do
I'd like to see some evidence for this as I suspect it's plain wrong. I try to do well at photography, running and participating in rides, writing reports and documenting rides and hopefully not falling off my bike too much. None of these things involves competition. I never watch competitive sport as it makes me feel inadequate and I'd rather be doing something less passive.