[Closed] Are we getting a bit to precious about weight?

BH - all a bit of a blur but it's a cracking location. And yes, my heels are locked together...!

I often surf with a Marine helicopter pilot. Top bloke and a nutter in big waves.

Right, back on topic.

Mol - a bike weights a fraction of what a rider does

True, but it's not that important. You, as the rider have to manhandle the bike around things and through things. In a car, the tyres and engine are doing the work - on a bike it's just you. You have to really work with what little traction your tyres give.

You've posted on here before that your riding isn't as good as your other sports, maybe that's the issue? Have you ever compared and contrasted similar bikes of different weights? And I don't mean some ultra compromised 17lb weenie machine...

Mol - yes I have. My wife's 17" Rockhopper that weighs about 28lbs and my 17" Stumpjumper which weighs 22-23lbs (not weighed it properly). Both are HT XC orientated machines; so plenty of opportunity to compare.

I doubt a lardy rider would be any quicker on the Stumpy than the Rockhopper. A fit rider will notice the difference and be more rapid.

As for riding - I'm used to being good at stuff and with MTBing, I've won an offroad tri (admittedly Sprint distance and fairly local) partly thanks to the MTB section - so while not at the level of surfing or running, it's still not bad. Can struggle riding with a mate of mine but he's an Elite rider and often podiums at big events. Another won a fairly big local race too. Luckily I thrash them both running...;-)

Does your stumpy feel nicer to ride than the rockhopper? I assume you've ridden both.

I don't think the lardiness of the rider is an issue. The competence is.

After all I've been schooled in both riding (up and down) and climbing by some right fat sacks of lard that the typical STW snobs wouldn't think could climb the stairs without wheezing.

There is a strong correlation between lardiness and unfitness, but there is NOT a causal link. Everyone knows a fat but fit person.

I don't know any fit fat people.

The Stumpy feels sharper and reacts quicker than the RH partly due to it's racier geometry but also better components. The weight makes a difference for sure but I think a lardy rider would need the added strength of the RH to avoid busting stuff.

Given that your bike has to be strong enough for its task, handle well, and be set up well - light is better.

Simples.

Re fit fat blokes, I was in a climbing wall in Manchester trying to climb up and over an archway, and back down the other side. A fair few holds although no super jugs, and it was very physical since you had to switch your feet around whilst being upside down hanging from the ceiling. I tried many times and got closer and closer. This proper short fat blobby guy with super jugs of his own came up and said 'oh it's not that hard' and did it in the most superb fluid graceful action. Tremendous, since rock climbing must be one of the sports where being proper lardy puts you at the biggest disadvantage.

Surf-Mat - Member

The Stumpy feels sharper and reacts quicker than the RH partly due to it's racier geometry but also better components.

Do you know this or have you just accepted "magazine wisdom"?

The weight makes a difference for sure but I think a lardy rider would need the added strength of the RH to avoid busting stuff.

The RH is unlikely to be any stronger, the SJ will be as it is using better tubing. Heavier does not necessarily mean stronger.

richmtb - Member

The Blur is feels faster going up (better shock) and a lot faster going down, better geometry and stiffer

Fixed that for ya! No need to thank me!

Cynic-al, are you saying now matter how much better a bike pedals, a lighter bike will always be faster up hill?

+1 on both of those points.

Al - what a stupid thing to write. I don't read MTB mags - haven't done for years. The difference in the bikes is subtle but definitely there - the Stumoy feels more like a road bike at times - twitchier but faster reacting. Gear shifts are snappier, brakes are better and it feels more efficient. Or was that just a sly attempt at a put down yet again?

I'm pretty sure Toras are stronger than Fox 90RLs, pretty sure alu bars are stronger than carbon ones, etc, etc. The RH feels "safer" jumping than the Stumpy.

Mol - he clearly had technique then. He's be quicker if he wasn't fat though.

I thought Stumpjumpers were mountain bikes? How on earth could you compare the two?

pretty sure alu bars are stronger than carbon ones

Not true.

Mol - he clearly had technique then. He's be quicker if he wasn't fat though

What he had was an incredible amount of strength. Which he might not have had if he'd been congenitally skinny. I think that the tendency to be brutally strong TENDS to come with a tendency to gain weight in fat - in active people. Not comparing athletes with couch potatoes here, but active people with other active people.

I'm more powerful than most other folk I know who have used power meters, and I have more muscle mass - but more fat too.

I thought Stumpjumpers were mountain bikes? How on earth could you compare the two?

And so is a Rockhopper. What are you getting at?

Mol - fair enough - most "Worlds Strongest Man" winners are packing a bit of fat (apart from the loony Polish guy) but I bet they can't run very far.

I'd rather be strong and toned though any day. High power to weight ratio comes in handy all the time.

Ok, we've solved the problem of weight-weeniesm now, but which is better, a hardtail or a full sus?

The simple point that you were comparing you SJ to a road bike. You didn't compare your RH to a road bike did you?

Sure Mat, but it takes all sorts 🙂

WSM is interesting actually, because the blokes do vary quite a bit, and the events they have to do reflect that.

I'd also rather be strong and toned. I have the potential to be a great cyclist, but it's quite hard for me to lose the lard.

The simple point that you were comparing you SJ to a road bike. You didn't compare your RH to a road bike did you?

No I wasn't! I was comparing a Stumpy to a Rockhopper - both hardtail mountain bikes with 27 gears and disk brakes. Pretty darn similar really. My Stumpy is super agile [b]a bit like[/b] a road bike (we also have an Allez) but that's as far as the comparison goes.

Mol - the body builder style guys always used to get wooped by the lardier guys but with the arrival of that Polish guy, there seems to be a few more similar types with veins popping out, fake perma tan and a keeness to full body wax.

That claim about the tendency of active fat people to be stronger than their slimmer active counter-parts is pure pub science.

Actually the 2 most sucessfull WSMs were both muscle men; Jón Páll Sigmarsson and Mariusz Pudzianowski. Bill Kazmair and Jouko Ahola were also not what I'd class as fat.

Backhander - both recentish winners though. I'd say it used to be won by lardier blokes more often than not - Maruisz P (what a name!) really seemed to change it all. Freaky physique.

Maybe, but that was before people learned the science, which is that fat has no strength. In days gone by, big blokes were just big blokes who had a bit of fat and a lot of muscle and of course were the stromgest around becaise of their muscle. We know that fat is useless and this has been proven year on year since the 80s. I doubt we'll see any more fatties win the WSM.

That claim about the tendency of active fat people to be stronger than their slimmer active counter-parts is pure pub science.

It's not science at all. It's a casual observation. But I bet there's some value in it.

Backhander - interesting and agree with all that.

Back on topic (ish) - I think some people rest of the "crutch" of bike lightness because it's easier to throw a few hundred quid at a bike to lighten it than concentrate on getting fitter and less lardy.

Odd thing to say. It's not a "crutch" at all. It's not like we are all chasing some kind of performance goal and need to make a certain time to validate ourselves, is it?

Light bikes feel nice.

Being skinny helps you ride fast.

The two things are unrelated. The idea that people lighten their bikes because they think it'll make they riding gods is a total fallacy.

I go a lot quicker up hills this year having lost a bit of weight. It is really noticeable for me, it makes riding a lot more enjoyable!

However... my bike this year is the lightest I've ever had, I like it more than all the others. Heavier bikes don't ride as nicely IMO. If I wasn't racing I'd have something with more travel and wider tyres, but would still make it as light as practically possible.

I am amused by how many people on Weight Weenies riding 17lb hardtails are 90kg+ though.

Rockhopper won't be any tougher than the Stumpy either, as has been observed, carbon bars are likely stronger than alu ones, I'd trust F90s over Toras too.

Maybe the weight of the RH just makes it feel stronger then?!

I shall now ride my Stumpy flat out into a large tree to test it out.

Maybe the weight of the RH just makes it feel stronger then?!

Correct, brain associates light weight with fragile.

Halfords special weighs more, but it'll fold up if you look at it strangely.

However... my bike this year is the lightest I've ever had, I like it more than all the others. Heavier bikes don't ride as nicely IMO. If I wasn't racing I'd have something with more travel and wider tyres, but would still make it as light as practically possible.

My new bike is heavier than my old one. And it rides a lot nicer. Of course if it weighed 4lbs less it might be nicer to ride, but as I've already trashed a light rear wheel on it, going the other way and putting some tougher wheels on it is probably a better option.

Mountain biking is a broad church, Weight weenieism is just one sect!

And I'm a firm believer in horses for courses.

There's a Mojo SL ridden by some Spanish bloke, it's about 18lbs or sommat, 100mm forks, Maxxlite 310 tyres, 90g flat bars with alu stem bolts and what not, completely daft spec, I wouldn't go that far.

Cynic-al, are you saying now matter how much better a bike pedals, a lighter bike will always be faster up hill?

Within reason, yes.

I'm pretty sure Toras are stronger than Fox 90RLs, pretty sure alu bars are stronger than carbon ones, etc, etc.

"pretty sure" what is that worth?

The RH feels "safer" jumping than the Stumpy.

How does that make it stronger?

Okay I will stick to known facts to avoid being picked apart.

The Stumpy is lighter and more expensive than the Rockhopper.

The Stumpy is lighter and more expensive than the Rockhopper

Is it though? 😉

phil.w - Member

SpokesCycles - Member
You're a fool if you think a heavy bike is better in any situation.

In a chainless race down a hill the heavier bike would accelerate quicker. Would it not be better in this situation?

A lighter bike is easier to move around and control, pump jump and therefore quicker/better/more enjoyable.

molgrips - Member
I have hardly ever (if ever) seen such a bloke on the start line of an Elite race tho. Anyone know any big elite racers?