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Sounds like exactly what I use my Cove STD for. That suspension design pedals great, no bobbing and the head angle is about 65deg. It climbs as well as you have the legs for, I can get up most stuff on it. BUT, it's heavy... mine is 40lbs and it wears me down over a day. It's not a full on DH bike, similar to the VP-Free, but I've used it for lift assisted DH and kept up with the big bikes no bother... in fact it's faster in the tighter stuff. Mine's built up heavy with Diabolous and coil Totems.
I used a Kona Stab for the Passeportes Du Sleil last year and can attest to the fact that it's totally rubbish for pedalling uphill.
If you really need 180mm of travel and slack angles, try a Patriot. Not so good for full-on DH. but really not far behind if you're just playing on Alpine slopes. And it'll pedal uphill all day if your legs and heart will take it.
The Intense Uzzi will do exactly what you want, pic of mine taken on a 38km route with a lot of climbing. As long as you change the tyres for doing trail riding it will do what you need. I even have a granny ring fitted to mine.
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It's not light (c37lbs) but can't say I notice the extra weight. The newer version is lighter.
I used a Kona Stab for the Passeportes Du Sleil
anyone who even tries to pedal a stab uphill deserves a medal in my book 🙂
anyone who even tries to pedal a stab uphill deserves a medal in my book
It has to be said that the downhills were a lot of fun, but the climbs were tragically difficult, especially with the obligatory road cassette fitted. And full armour. And a full-face helmet. On a really hot day.
I lost 3kg in the day and was peeing something which was bright orange and seemingly semi-solid. Still, we finished in a good time (in the pub by 3.30pm) and good fun was had by all.
I'll not be using the Stab this year though.......
Uzzi VP makes a pretty good attempt at both things. You can faff around with the dropouts to raise/lower & steepen/slacken the BB & HA respectively.
Mine comes in at 35lb, with an all day spec on it, that can still cope with some fairly serious DH ragging. (did a day at Inners the other week without any changes and was hitting all the big drops and jumps fine). Change of tyres to 2.5 twin plys and you're good to hit anything. Bit draggy uphill like that, but still manageable.
Personally I wouldn't actually want a full DH bike in the UK as uplifts are too few and far between. It's always faster and less effort to ride up if the bike will let you, and how fast you go back down is more about mindset than anything else.
I love that Bike of Si progressive bikes,the long seat tube allows good seat height adjustment,some clever linkage design too..
feel free to ignore me, because i'm an idiot.
if you're not racing Dh, you don't need a Dh bike.
even if you [i]are[/i] racing Dh, unless you're really fast, and hitting things really hard, you don't need a Dh bike.
so awhiles what bike would you suggest for
moelfre
aston
cwmcarn
caersws
nant gertherin (sp?)
just uplifts not races?
these are just suggestions:
something with a granny ring, that allows correct saddle height for pedalling, with about 160mm travel.
specialized enduro / sx trail? giant reign? Santa Cruz Nomad / Butcher? one of those intense things? - something like that.
consider that the world's fastest plumber won the last 2 sheffield races on a 29er Xc bike...
if you're not racing Dh, you don't need a Dh bike.even if you are racing Dh, unless you're really fast, and hitting things really hard, you don't need a Dh bike.
I agree.
Masses of travel and fat stanchions does not make a downhill bike.
its all in the angles, and due to the stupid angles on proper DH "sleds" you cant use the bloody things for ANYTHING else.
if you can, its a FR bike at worst, maybe just a FAT all mountain bike.
Giant Maestro system pedals amazingly well.
If you want a DH bike, buy the Glory DH
If you want more travel than you know what to do with on a trail bike, buy the straight Glory, or the faith.
the angles are totally different iirc
i wanted to play uplifts, and be able to hack most DH tracks, but am not fussed about keeping up, and would also like to be able to wind up the hills.
so bought my patriot 66.
can be set up to pedal like a trail bike.
slackened off and used as a "miniDH" bike.
wouldnt consider calling it a DH bike though.
incidently, most DH races have a hardtail class, and you wont seem many forks longer than pikes.
Specialized SX Trail is probably the bike for this kind of riding. No need for a full on DH bike unless your actually racing every other weekend. None of them pedal particularly well compared to say a Nomad. Its horses for courses. Theres a whole raft of new 180mm travel bikes that'll be better suited for it, new Genius LT looks a very interesting proposition.
PeteG55Specialized SX Trail is probably the bike for this kind of riding.
Agree. It's been ridden to a top five finish at a DH World Champs, so I think that shows it's DH credentials, the seat angle isn't stupidly slack so you can peddle it, and it actually pedals very well (though the slack ha limits it on climbs).
My 2007 one, with coil totems and shock weighs under 36lbs with 2x2 ply tyres. Considerably less with single ply. Shame spesh aren't bringing any into the uk this year.
GaVgAs - MemberThanks for the responses folks,I agree your never going to find a proper dh bike the pedals as well/efficently as a [b]140 travel xc bike[/b]
WUT
kimbers - Memberso awhiles what bike would you suggest for
moelfre aston cwmcarn caersws nant gertherin (sp?)just uplifts not races?
I'd take my Hemlock personally. Though I don't like it getting mauled in uplift trucks.
what bike would you suggest for
moelfre
aston
cwmcarn
caersws
nant gertherin (sp?)just uplifts not races?
I'll say it again - Intense Uzzi. Although an SX is another very good option.
i rode my 50lb demo9 round the glentress black etc...
i rode my 50lb demo9 round the glentress black etc...
But I rode it fixed/rigid and in your sister's jeans. So I'm considerably more niche than you.
I'll say it again - Intense Uzzi
+1
My VP-Free goes around the trails at Cannock almost as easily as my 6" travel bike. If you can find a used one in good nick it's more than enough for any DH the UK has to offer.
Another +vote for a Marin Quake, bit heavy at 43lbs but it will go up hill if you spin, however you do notice the weight on anything but downhill.
if you're not racing Dh, you don't need a Dh bike.even if you are racing Dh, unless you're really fast, and hitting things really hard, you don't need a Dh bike.
Of course you don't NEED a DH bike. The same way you don't need an XC whippet to ride around an XC course, you can go round in your BMX if you want. It's just that the XC bike will be set up to get round the thing more efficiently and quicker.
I don't get your second point at all though. Every race I've ever entered, I've had two goals: to go as fast as possible and not to crash. So suggesting that people who race DH, but aren't really fast (I seldom finish in the top 25% so I class myself in that group), don't need a DH bike is a bit odd. Can you explain to me how people like me are going to improve their finishing positions on a Nomad compared to DH bike?
It's got naff all to do with "hitting things really hard". The more things you hit hard when you're racing, the slower you go. It's all about line choice, control and speed - but they are interlinked.
DH frames are designed for just that, being able to control a bike at speed on rough terrain. Therefore, the following characteristics, which are designed to be DH specific (rather than worrying about whether it's good for going back up the hill, on a Nomad etc) are all beneficial to me:
stiffness
slack head angle
long chainstays
bottom bracket height
long wheelbase
suspension design
and of course, when you DO hit things hard on a bike, you want it to be as robust as possible (unless you like replacing £2.5k frames on a monthly basis), and DH bikes generally offer a higher degree of strength than bikes deisgned for other disciplines.
consider that the world's fastest plumber won the last 2 sheffield races on a 29er Xc bike
He can go quicker than the rest of the field on pretty much any bike because he is extremely strong, amazingly smooth and has a brain that tunes into good lines quicker than Charlie Sheen. Most of us have less than 10% of the bike handling skills that he does. It's like saying you can win at snooker playing with your opposite hand just because O'Sullivan does it.
its all in the angles, and due to the stupid angles on proper DH "sleds" you cant use the bloody things for ANYTHING else.
Stupid angles? Yeah, the designers really missed a trick there by sticking DH specific geometry on a DH specific bike. Someone should have a word with them.
Sorry to state the obvious, but why would you buy a £5k DH race bike for anything else? It's not designed for anything else, it's a DH bike. Would you buy a trials bike and complain it's rubbish for enduro events because you can't sit down?
I used to race DH on an old FSR. It got me down every course I ever visited. But to suggest that DH bikes have no purpose unless you are racing DH hard and fast is a bit silly.
I still take AM and FR bikes to some uplift days because some courses are more fun on those bikes (and in some cases even quicker). I took a 7" freeride bike to Whistler last time I went and left the DH bike at home.
But I'd still never turn up at Fort Bill with a AM/FR bike when I've got something else in the shed that will get me down quicker and with less chance of losing control at 40mph.
I have a Cove Shocker and it pedals ok - for a DH bike. Rode the Mega course on it but switched to my Hustler for the actual event.
Having riden Cwm Carn uplift on a Hustler, G-Spot and a Shocker my thoughts would be that the G-Spot (a FR/AM/Trail bike) would suit the OPs 'situation'.
Not too restrictive on the XC stuff but still very capable on the DH stuff.
Then if after doing a few DH events they feel that DHs for them buy something DH specific.
why not just get a dh bike and man up? I rode the SDW in a day on my 45lb Gemini. Granted not a DH bike by modern standards (was in it's day) but it doesn't pedal for toffee 🙂
For me it has to be an Intense Uzzi. Perfect for the UK and more than capable in the Alps. It'll do all you ask and it'll pedal up again if you need to.
Foes RS7 apparently loads of US rider use them in stead of nomads and designed as a race specific 7" DH bike.
I race mine DH and love it. With the air shock the pedalling efficiency is excellent.
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one_happy_hippyFoes RS7 apparently loads of US rider use them in stead of nomads and designed as a race specific 7" DH bike.
They peddle really efficiently, but a super slack seat angle and head angle (it's more like 64 than the 66 foes say) means it would be a pig to do any distance / climbing. Also, even an full bling build will struggle to get under 38lbs without silly components.
The OP will never get all that moon on his stick.
The RS7 is an AWESOME bike. I had a full day on one and it was outstanding. really came into it's own when things slowed down and got really technical.
Foes designed it as a short travel DH bike, so the geo is all spot on, but just doesn't have the extra bulk and monster turning cicle of a bigger bike.
Short travel DH bikes may well be the way to go for most UK DH courses, but there just isn't a great deal of choice around at the moment. most people tend to make do with a FR bike instead.
They peddle really efficiently, but a super slack seat angle and head angle (it's more like 64 than the 66 foes say) means it would be a pig to do any distance / climbing.
It's a [b]DH race bike[/b], why would you buy it to do any distance or climbing?
peterfile - MemberI don't get your second point at all though. Every race I've ever entered, I've had two goals: to go as fast as possible and not to crash. So suggesting that people who race DH, but aren't really fast (I seldom finish in the top 25% so I class myself in that group), don't need a DH bike is a bit odd. Can you explain to me how people like me are going to improve their finishing positions on a Nomad compared to DH bike?
easy:
i race Dh, and i try to go as fast as i can - but i'm not that good/quick, and i usually finish in the bottom 3rd of the field.
Dh bikes usually have around 200mm of travel, that's loads. if i set the spring rates so that the bike feels 'nice', with sensible amounts of sag, then i rarely if ever use all that travel.
if i set the spring rates so that i use 200mm of travel, then the bike just feels very soft and wallowy.
i can only speak for myself, but i'm faster/happier on a bike with less travel.
i did point out that i'm an idiot, and very slow on a bike,
peterfileIt's a DH race bike, why would you buy it to do any distance or climbing?
I wouldn't. But if you read the thread you will see that the op is confused between something like a Nomad with a 180mm fork and an actual DH bike. He's also stated that he intends the bike for 15 mile rides. So cram it.
Dh bikes usually have around 200mm of travel, that's loads. if i set the spring rates so that the bike feels 'nice', with sensible amounts of sag, then i rarely if ever use all that travel.if i set the spring rates so that i use 200mm of travel, then the bike just feels very soft and wallowy.
i can only speak for myself, but i'm faster/happier on a bike with less travel.
i did point out that i'm an idiot, and very slow on a bike,
but travel is just one ingredient to a good DH frame.
I would far rather have less travel and DH specific geometry than loads of travel and AM geometry.
Agreed, if you are regularly bottoming out 8/9" of travel in a DH race then you probably hitting things you shouldn't be 🙂
I wouldn't. But if you read the thread you will see that the op is confused between something like a Nomad with a 180mm fork and an actual DH bike. He's also stated that he intends the bike for 15 mile rides. So cram it.
So cram it? Charming.
If YOU read the thread you would see that the last 2 pages of advice is that you shouldn't really be buying a DH bike for any sort of riding other than DH.
New Patriot? Haven't looked through all the replies, but has anyone mentioned the new Orange Patriot? I think there's one on its way. If so, it should fit the bill. I have an '09 Patriot and it's superb, and fitted with 180mm 36s or Boxxers it would make a great easily-pedalled mini-dh bike. Failing that, 224 or its successor - I've seen folk pedal them uphill for miles, they disappear in a cloud of dust as soon as the dh starts.
peterfileSo cram it? Charming.
If YOU read the thread you would see that the last 2 pages of advice is that you shouldn't really be buying a DH bike for any sort of riding other than DH.
[b]IF YOU[/b]......nevermind.
My reply to this
one_happy_hippyFoes RS7 apparently loads of US rider use them in stead of nomads..
was to highlight that the RS7 would not make a suitable Nomad replacement as it is a DH bike not an AM bike. Quite obvious to me, but maybe not the OP. We are saying the same thing, but you elected to tell me that the Foes was a [b]DH RACE BIKE IN BOLD!![/b] which I obviously knew, and hence you came across like and arsehole. 🙂
Damn clicking too much fail.
What you want is an RS7 with the new Suntour 180-1400mm adjustable fork. Meant to be awesome bit of kit - my mate works at Greyville and says the quality is right up there. Im going to put one on mine for the Mega if and when I get to do it along with an adjustable post.. 140mm for climbing will steepen the head angle and 180mm for DH. Perfect. IIRC the RS7 has front mech routing too.
From just pedalling it back up fire tracks I recon with an adjustable post and some 140-180mm forks on and a decent light build you could get a wicked 36lbs all mountain / DH bike built.
Mine:-
[b]DH Build[/b]
Just shy of 40lbs with Boxxer teams / easton finishing kit / Easton Havoc DH wheels and not trying too hard. No Ti bolts, no carbon bars etc. DH build mind nothing else.
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I'm sorry jimjam, it wasn't my intention to come across as an arsehole.
It's just that this thread is wearing slightly, since it seems to have been 2 pages full of claims that DH bikes are not actually any use for DH, surprise at the fact DH race bikes aren't any good at climbing, or that you might as well buy a road bike unless your surname is Peat.
one_happy_hippy that is awesome! don't suppose you fancy swapping for a day if you're ever up near Wharncliffe? 😀
Although, you do realise that you would have been better off buying a Nomad for DH though? 😆
peterfile
this thread is wearing slightly,
Agreed.
one_happy_hippy - MemberWhat you want is an RS7 with the new Suntour 180-1400mm adjustable fork. Meant to be awesome bit of kit
It must be awesome alright....lol...s****...sorry.
Your RS7 is very nice by the way. I wouldn't ruin it with a dropper post and single crown forks etc but hey.
If you're considering freemince bikes, this looks quite good...
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55596 ]Cube Hanzz Pro[/url]
You're in Cumbria aren't you? There was one looking all sexy in the shop at Whinlatter when I popped in a couple of months ago.
peterfile: fyi - this is my 'Dh' bike:
[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAUxlCbOAouKPrxFDBsuYZT1RYI4j7Ym3GSnkonyfkYPT7gVuOgg [/img]
long low and slack, but only 160mm travel, and a granny ring, i even rode it around kirroughtree and it really wasn't that bad - infact it was a hoot!
long low and slack
that's always top of my shopping list before travel. I do agree that it seems pointless carrying around 9" (oooh errrr!) for most UK riding, but it just seeems that proper DH geometry and general design is harder to come by on shorter travel bikes.
I sold my current DH bike's predecessor and bought a Bullit, which I kitted out as a mini DH rig. but then i sold it because it just wasn't that great as a DH bike and it wasn't that great at general trail stuff.
So I just bought another full on DH bike and will use my HT and shorter travel bikes for everything else.
It must be awesome alright....lol...s****...sorry.Your RS7 is very nice by the way. I wouldn't ruin it with a dropper post and single crown forks etc but hey
Cheers!
Would only be for the mega where it needs to climb as well. Foes build a lot of the RS7's up with totems - though I think a 180mm Fox 36 would be good too.
The Suntour is very good value for money for what it is. 140mm-180mm remotely adjustable travel for half the price of a Fox 36 talas.
Bare in mind that these arnt the old crappy suntours you may remember now made in the same factory as many big names - all ally internals - no plastic parts and have been getting pretty good reviews I think it came 2nd place to a 36 in one review and as its half the price its damn good value. Ok it isant as good as the Fox but is the fox going to be worth twice as much?
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/suntour-suspension-2011.html ]Suntour on Pinkbike[/url]
My friend and I used to ride DH bikes as our 'all day' bikes, back when light weight and long travel wasn't something you'd hear in the same sentence, let alone decribe a bike with.
His was a 222 with a 5th coil and Boxxer, with a double and bash gaurd on using an adaptor for the mech and cable stop.
Yes it was slow and labourious up hill, bit when we did Highstreet on them, coming down off Lodepot (i think) was insane. Plenty of times we pushed or climbed slowly then plummeted, Walna scar also comes to mind.
This was ok when we were younger and fitter, but due to changes in circumstance and the fact is, it was hard work meant we changed our bikes for something more usable more of the time.
You can use any bike for just about anything as long as you can live with the inevitable compromise.
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