[Closed] Are Mountain bikings green credentials dead?

Meh, I think cycling's green credentials are pretty weak really, probably worse than a lot of sports in fact, e-bikes and trail centre culture don't help of course but that's the way society is headed...

MTB has only had a smidge of greenwash by (tenuous) association with cycle commuting (or journeys by car replaced by bike).

MTB has always had the requirement of needing a bike to be manufactured when a pair of boots alone would have got you in into the same countryside. MTBing has always had significant numbers of participants driving to do it. It was never all that.

Sure, there are plenty of environmentally worse things to do, but don't kid yourself we were ever special. Ebike and Range Rover bashing is a red herring - it's likely your old bike and sierra in the late 90's were a shit load worse.

Yep, trail centres and ebikes can get in the sea with superboost....I might take up drag racing, seems greener..

“the huge planet killing car”

That’s the issue. Someone needs to be brave enough to legislate against the ridiculous expansion of private cars, especially the idiotic buying of SUVs of all sizes to replace cars of a similar footprint which use less fuel, create fewer particulates from tyres and brakes and actually ride and handle better, all by not being pointlessly tall.

I ride my ebike from home/work 99% of the time, so there’s less environmental impact from that than if you drive to and from a ride on a normal bike.

Remind that bit about “the petrol it took me to get to the start”

Yeah I don’t think MTBing has any green credentials particularly, and certainly not if you drive somewhere to ride. That said, what else are you going to do for fitness? A lot of other sports have a higher carbon footprint no doubt.

This article is interesting. https://www.bikeradar.com/features/long-reads/cycling-environmental-impact/

I offset my weekend MTBing by commuting on bike. I wouldn’t do the latter if I didn’t have the skills/fitness/knowledge from the former 🙂

Tosh, so ebikes don't have a higher cost of maintenance/parts usage? And Rangerovers are clearly good for the planet? I'll get my coat...wasted.

Confusing title.
What green creds do you think MTB ever had?

Oh forgot about the planned obselesance, I'll just throw my bike into a skip on the way home as I can't get a "wingnut"* for it.

*Insert any overpriced carbon component you like here.

It's all relative.

Mountainbiking itself is...what? It's not a thing in itself. It's used to sell stuff like everything else.

It's easy to point at an SUV from a more average car, but both really need to stop existing along with lots of other huge changes in farming, diet, heating etc, to turn things around.

I think you are going down the route that there is one mtbing, one cycling. Like it's an organised religion with a head over various churches.

Cycling is vast, varied and means very different things to different people. For mtbing for one person it maybe riding the sdw ona single speed, for another it's building trails in a small bit of woodland, another it's dirt jumping another it big natural dayout in the all another is bike parks another it more touring / backpacking.

@thegeneralist I had assumed any activity that meant you spent your "average" Saturday cycling instead of buying,driving,eating or in some way consuming was in some way "green" ...I know it's a tired phrase

Back in the day, we rode whatever was there for us - everyone left from their doorstep and away trips weren't an every ride occurence. The sport has grown and evolved and diverged so much that some people have no concept of what a ride is without driving to a man-made trail centre and just following a line of arrows and then driving home - there are plenty who still do doorstep rides, but there are an incredibly small number who only do doorstep rides.

The sport has evolved, people's time has evolved (as well as their disposable income) - so the idea of driving somewhere to go ride their bike isn't a consideration any more - it is now the norm.

We aren't green in anyway, but whilst riding our bikes, it is a pretty green and sustainable effort as it is human-powered, but everything involved in the sport now kind of cancels that out - the manufacture of kit, the supply (due to the sheer volume being supplied across the globe), the demand, the getting to the ride and the removal of unused kit (not a huge amount can be recycled - but there are some people makes in-roads with that nowadays).

As above there isn't one cycling or mountain biking

Ebikes have a bigger impact than acoustic bikes. But in suspect there is overlap. 4 acoustic bikes probably had more impact than 1 ebike

Travel to trails has answers had an impact. I use to think that about rock climbing and surfing has loads of diving around looking for the best spot.

But riding from home surely is a reasonable use of resources.

The act and the technology has an environmental impact, the connection to the environment you do it in and it's affect on your world view and wider behaviours night offset it, for a percentage of the MTB population.

The greenwash of MTBs is just by association with commuting and cycling for transport.

the petrol it took me to get to the start

This is where the carbon footprint lies.

I worked out last time someone asked this that one car driven from Southern England to Glentress emits more carbon than a spangly new carbon bikes manufacturing. E.bike probably more, but still likely to be considerably less than the carbon footprint of the journeys it spends on a boot rack.

Back in the day, we rode whatever was there for us – everyone left from their doorstep

I think that's stretching it somewhat. Even back in the 90s I was turning up for Monday night pub rides* and was in the minority that rode to the start and we had trips to Wales, Yorkshire etc a couple of times a year.

*not the MNPR, just a MNPR.

Obviously depends where you grew up and what age you were...from slightly clear memories, the young ones rode everywhere and there were only a very small number of older guys riding mountain bikes and a few of them drove to ride starts, but they were all in the minority - that was up until about 1996 when it started to change, but very early 00s it was definitely the opposite...it is now the norm (and I'm guilty of it for about half my rides nowadays).

I'm the worst kind of cyclist, I'm a recreational cyclist. Could be worse, I could be spending my time running on an electric treadmill in a lit air conditioned gym.

So, I'm 48. I can smash out that climb on a HT all day. I'm not sure the plump old grey haired lady drinking a Costa coffee (she seemed very nice) could do it without. 1. The coffee. 2. The E(vil) bike. 3. The big car. No offence but I don't see Alex Honnold climbing el cap on an electric winch when he's old n grey...

Obviously depends where you grew up and what age you were

I think that's what scientists would call a longitudinal cohort study.

Ask anyone who started riding MTB as a kid/teenager and they'll tell you that "everyone" rode from home to the woods in the early days. Their definition of when those early days were will vary quite a bit though.

My story is different to yours probably because I started with a cycling club so the group was 15-50 rather than a group of kids.

People these days also eat less sandwiches made by their mum and have later bedtimes. Both of which also result in a higher carbon footprint than when they were younger.

You should push her off next time you see her

@thegeneralist I had assumed any activity that meant you spent your “average” Saturday cycling instead of buying,driving,eating or in some way consuming was in some way “green” …I know it’s a tired phrase

So, should the comparison for the old guys you saw not be to what they would do if they weren’t MTBing, rather than to how it used to be when you were young? Perhaps they are riding e bikes rather than motorbikes? Perhaps they would alternatively be just going for a nice drive in the country all day as my grandparents used to do? Perhaps they would go and join a local flying club and burn fuel for fun? Perhaps they would buy a jetski? Or just stay at home burning wet wood on a fire pit? Or jump on a plane to sit in air conditioning beside a heated pool in between playing golf in the al garve or florida?

I’m not trying to defend mtbing as green but it’s definitely not the worst thing they could do with their day.

Meh, I think cycling’s green credentials are pretty weak really, probably worse than a lot of sports

Because it’s a sport in this country, not a primary mode of transport.

It’s nearly always been ‘greener’ for me as typically commute to work by bicycle, shop by bicycle, exercise by bicycle, ride from door to MTB/gravel/tour/explore except for when I’ll take the bike farther afield by car which is maybe two or three times.

I’m sure others have a similar cycle-centric lifestyle and typically shun driving/motorised vehicles for whatever reasons, but I’d wager they are a minority (in the UK at least).

MTB doesnt have any more green credentials than windsurfing, flying model planes, or any of a bazillion other things that we do for fun that are entirely unnecessary. Every single thing any of us does has an environmental impact, its just a matter of how far along the spectrum it is.

Although I'm amazed at it, I shouldn't be surprised that people drank the kool aid.

They've never been great. I've mostly driven to ride mountain bikes since I moved South in the late 90s and that would apply to most of my riding friends. I try and achieve some balance - with other transport and lifestyle choices (rail commute (pre Covid), very little flying, local journeys by foot and bike etc, no Range Rover) but I'm not daft enough to believe that this makes it "green".

As a kid/teen I would always have ridden from the door BUT I had heaps more time on my hands, the roads were a fraction as busy as they are now (and sleepy Suffolk vs. psycho driver Hampshire) and it was a lot less built up and a lot safer to ride around than my current urban sprawl.

Mountain biking probably isn't much worse than many other sports for the carbon footprint of travelling by car to do a sport. Driving to the golf/tennis/football/rugby club - the away matches etc.

The kit element of it though bothers me - it's clearly good for the industry for everything to wear out every 5 minutes and for standards to regularly go obsolete but its crap for the planet and for those of us who have bikes we're happy with and just want to go ride them. With all the advances in technology and performance the longevity of things like drivetrains has gone in the toilet compared to even 15-20 years ago.

Suppose it depends on what age you consider you are no longer a kid...I was a teenager but the kids ranged from early teens (me and others up to mid-twenties). As well as riding with my mates in the woods, I was also riding to the next counties to go ride in the hills; I was also in the local CTC club and went out with the 'oldies' - who would regular tell me I needed to do more miles to burn the energy out my legs...I was regularly doing over 300 miles a week, so my riding really was riding to every where to ride my bike - I did that up until my late 20s when I got my first car...

So yeah, I'm using the term kids, but I'm not referring to just the young teenagers, quite an age gap...and the guys who were older and some were driving ranged from mid-twenties to early 40s...we did have a good range people who were riding from various backgrounds i.e. kids, 20s, 30s, early 40s and then the real oldies in the local CTC club...

Perhaps foolishly, I'm thinking that is kind of similar to many other people who were mountain biking in the late 80s/90s and into the 00s...it won;'t be identical, but it will be similar for many others.

*edit: except for when I’ll take the bike farther afield by car which is maybe two or three times a year.

Well I dont have a car, in fact im a non driver and for a while, amongst people I knew, I was referred to as Andy Bike.
Shop, commute, day out etc etc, bike only,and for 30 plus years. When I go Ebike, im probably still in green credits.

Are mountain bikings green cred dead, without a doubt, for the reasons above people taking the car out to wherever for a days so's ride.(and lets not get into those who fly to different countries just to go cycling in them 😉 )
Ebikes 😕 Or E(vil) bikes, oh how off putting in a denial sort of way that term is in light of such arguments such as these. Completely new, to the masses that is, 2019 about :?. But its only there as transportation to replace a car for most journeys. Fresh air, light exercise.
I dont see it as the riders fault, more the industry's. Turned it from a pastime or method of transportation into a sport. Theyre inclusion of ebikes into mtb's is just them looking to capitalize further.

I don’t think mtb has ever been green in any way.
To be green the cycle journey has to replace a journey by car bus train etc.
You can use an mtb to do that journey, but that’s about it.
Going out to play on a bike, in whatever way isn’t green except for comparison with something worse (going for a drive for fun etc)

Because it’s a sport in this country, not a primary mode of transport.

for most of us its a pastime not a sport.

It can be very green. Ride an old bike and only replace worn out parts when necessary and always ride it from the door.
It can be very not green. Take e-bike 100 miles in a inefficient brand new car to go for a ride
And all those cases in between.

I am more in the first category but that is just by accident as I always ride from home and have never in my life but my bike in a car to go and ride somewhere as I am happy riding where I live.

Cycling a means of transport is very green even if using an ebike.

Driving to use a bike for a non essential leisure activity has never been green. There's worse things in life though and all journeys are different.

Leisure, however, is important and riding an e-bike around a trail centre is fun. A balance needs to be found and more trails made available locally, especially near cities.

For example, in Manchester, there's definitely potential for a specific trail around the water parks and Mersey, that can be reached on bike easily. Has never happened.

I think cycling’s green credentials are pretty weak really

Always been my view. Unless you can ride from the door, and use it for replacing car journeys commuting etc, I think anyone thinking any bike is "green" is a bit naive, especially as materials have got more exotic and we've got into annual model refreshes etc.

MTBing isn’t green. I don’t think it ever has been. For as long as I’ve been MTBing we’ve often driven to places for a ride.

I do have a rule for this - the rides must be twice as long (time wise) as the car journey or it doesn’t happen.

There are things you can do to make it better:

[img] [/img]

I routinely commute about 6000-7000km a year by bicycle, but that’s no MTBing. That’s just commuting and my choice is to do it by bike. MTBing is for fun. It’s no more or less harmful than golf.

Oh forgot about the planned obselesance, I’ll just throw my bike into a skip on the way home as I can’t get a “wingnut”* for it.

Bicycles have always been consumable items. The idea that some-how there was some golden era of frame-component compatibility and longevity is a fantasy. It may have existed for a couple of years in a tiny portion of the bicycle industry in the late nighties and early naughties, but that was probably entirely by accident, not design  From Raleigh's 1930's propriety BB sizing all the way to Super-boost the industries model has always been consumable not compatible .

In objective terms, the green credentials of MTB 30 years ago and today are probably pretty much the same.

lets not forget the amount of CO2 you are going to be breathing out by doing exercise.

I worked out last time someone asked this that one car driven from Southern England to Glentress emits more carbon than a spangly new carbon bikes manufacturing

Thats some complex thing you did, if you did it right.

On driving to ride, a better comparison would be made if the mtbers entire journeys are compared to a non bikers. I occasionally drive to ride but because I am a "cyclist" I ride to work, often ride to the shops etc. Basically I ride as much as I can because I like doing it. I expect many are like me(although I may be the minority amongst MTBers) so whilst my hobby may not be green its overall effect on my life may well be.

No activity like this is green really but as said above it's better than some other pass-times or ways to spend your spare money.

I don't feel too good about the overseas manufacturing, shipping product around the world etc that the bike industry is based on, to be honest. I'm not a big fan of the product direction either - the presentation of carbon as aspirational level, the complexity and obsolescence, plus batteries for uses that were non-powered before. Enjoy e-MTBs.. but I only see e-bikes as truly positive when they're a transport alternative. E-MTBs aren't a major negative in the grand scheme of things yet they could take off-road cycling in the wrong direction in terms of resource impact - you could also keep one running for a long time and it work out as a low impact purchase so it's not all about the product itself.
All this complexity favours big brands and big factories and goes towards products that can have shorter shelf lives, if only through marketing, but also through lack of parts 5 years down the line (entry level e-bikes... battery or controller spares in 5 years time? France's product support law is a good thing).
Hey ho, man shouts at cloud etc. All a symptom of a mature industry and general technology levels we have. 2 wheels are still good, if they make people happier and healthier that's worth so much.

We should look at our lifestyles overall. If you fly on holiday every year (with or without a bike) and drive everywhere (inc places to ride) then you are part of the small percentage of people in the world who can do that, choose to do it or continue doing it, and have a higher than average CO2 impact. The ability to make a change at a personal level is with a minority and we're it. Some of it comes with the life we find ourselves in, some of it may well be a lack of willingness or self-interest and selfishness, plus that useful defence of scepticism maybe.

Ebike and Range Rover bashing is a red herring – it’s likely your old bike and sierra in the late 90’s were a shit load worse.

In terms of cleanliness of manufacturing generally at the time, probably. Car emissions, maybe. The difference is that now there's much wider understanding (vs late 90s maybe, vs early 90s more so) the Range Rover and SUVs like it are responsible for high levels of fuel use, emissions and new car churn that goes with aspirational car ownership is a lot of materials and resources use. Yet people still carry on buying them and car brands keep making them bigger.

I dont see it as the riders fault, more the industry’s. Turned it from a pastime or method of transportation into a sport. They're inclusion of ebikes into mtb’s is just them looking to capitalize further.

Interesting angle. Thinking about that re SUV purchases and wondering if the consumer psychology is the same in MTB (some similarity perhaps). Products sell based on consumer demand so it's a loop that brands and customers both feed into. You can make your own choices, whether to consume new stuff every couple of years or make a product last. Buy a Focus 1.4 or a Range Rover Urban. I know, some would say standards now prevent making bikes last, etc. I don't agree there either ; ) Bikes were fun in the 80s and if nothing had changed we'd be equally happy. We don't need 'better', we choose to want/have it and that's how churn happens.
Edit to add, I think the pass-time to sport thing is just human nature, blokes gonna race.

Are you sure you didn't get the arse as you got overtaken by some ebikers having fun whilst you were wheezing up a hill?
It's just a hobby pissing around in the woods, nothing more.

lets not forget the amount of CO2 you are going to be breathing out by doing exercise.

Yeah and nobody takes into account the amount Vegetarians and vegans fart due to their diet. Yet they blame cows for contributing to global warming.

A bit like the dinosaurs, mostly being herbivores. We may not know for sure what the prehistoric world looked like, but we sure know what it smelled like 😉

aspirational car ownership is a lot of materials and resources use. Yet people still carry on buying them and car brands keep making them bigger. Fk car companies.

I hear ya, but none of that would happen if people didn’t want to buy them.
People are the problem.

The idea that some-how there was some golden era of frame-component compatibility and longevity is a fantasy.

Not really a fantasy, more a choice. I am still riding a bike with;

68 threaded BB and using a square taper BB.
1 inch threaded headset.
1 inch quill stem, 25.4 bars
100 x 9 fork / hub
120 x 10 rear. Okay it is a track frame but even today that is the size used.

All of that stuff has been around for at least 40 years and would be seen as the common standard.

I routinely commute about 6000-7000km a year by bicycle, but that’s no MTBing. That’s just commuting and my choice is to do it by bike.

Are they totally separate and unrelated? Within my group of friends and workmates most of the cycle commuters also cycle recreationally. Does one encourage the other? There is a significant overlap

Oh forgot about the planned obselesance, I’ll just throw my bike into a skip on the way home as I can’t get a “wingnut”* for it.

Or you could donate it to a charity that will recycle it,
Someone like https://www.resurrectionbikes.org.uk/ in Harrogate who always welcome your old bike

I never used to ride my MTB from the door, I always drove. 9 months ago I got an ebike, now some of my rides are from my door.

Most still involve the car - one of those awful suv things

I hear ya, but none of that would happen if people didn’t want to buy them.
People are the problem.

I edited out the 'fk car companies' bit after saying it was a 2 way thing later in the post : ) People certainly are the problem. Ego. Of the people who run car companies and the people buying crazy oversize vehicles or status symbols which have that sort of impact. Just buy a Rolex..

In objective terms, the green credentials of MTB 30 years ago and today are probably pretty much the same.

I think in terms of bikes things have changed. Mainly in that 30 years ago I had an MTB that covered all off road usage and quite a lot of road. I'm now on a gravel bike and FS for roughly the same trails. Of course I could still have just one off road bike. But my feeling is lots of people now have multiple off road bikes. My N at 2 makes my N 1 perhaps one more than it needs to be. But I get the feeling on here that 2 is quite a small N.

Ebikes have a bigger impact than acoustic Normal bikes

FTFY.

So, I’m 48. I can smash out that climb on a HT all day. I’m not sure the plump old grey haired lady drinking a Costa coffee (she seemed very nice) could do it without. 1. The coffee. 2. The E(vil) bike. 3. The big car. No offence but I don’t see Alex Honnold climbing el cap on an electric winch when he’s old n grey…

So, I’m 46. 5 years ago, I could smash out that climb on a HT all day. I am sure that the now plump me with 30% remaining heart function could not. 1. I like coffee. 2. To get out and increase my feelings of wellbeing, an E(vil) bike is largely a necessity. 3. I don’t have a big car. No offence but I want to keep getting out in the open country now, I won’t get to be old an grey, so I want to make the most of the few remaining years I have left.

If you're talking about trail centres, MTBing's "green" credentials are up there with golf. Yes, there's a large area of land with grass and trees and stuff which is better than a large area of land with a shopping centre on it but other than that, people drive to it from all over and ponce around on it for a bit.

As a sport, cycling has a horrendous carbon footprint - flying teams and equipment across the world to ride around/down a man made trail or (far worse) road cycling where a convoy of vehicles drives several hundred km each day.

As a general pastime though, riding from the door or putting the bike on a train or doing some bikepacking - it's pretty low impact in the grand scheme of things.

Ebikes have a bigger impact than acoustic Normal bikes

FTFY.

And when ebikes at trail centres outnumber ‘normal’ bikes, you’ll be labelling an outdated curiosity as ‘normal’ . Imagine referring to a diesel car as a ‘normal car’ (as opposed to an electric car) when electric cars are the norm?

an outdated curiosity

aka one of man's greatest inventions, certainly within transport, and that's not saying the e-bike isn't a great development of that invention. Sport vs car alternative uses etc aside.

And when ebikes at trail centres outnumber ‘normal’ bikes, you’ll be labelling an outdated curiosity as ‘normal’ . Imagine referring to a diesel car as a ‘normal car’ (as opposed to an electric car) when electric cars are the norm?

Hardly.

‘outdated curiosity’ was rhetorical to a degree. But the question remains? ie if/when ebikes become the norm in cycling/a cycle sport then wouldn’t it be redundant/anachronistic to refer to pushbikes as ‘normal’?

Tosh, so ebikes don’t have a higher cost of maintenance/parts usage? And Rangerovers are clearly good for the planet?

I think you are very confused here. Range rovers are in no way seen as a requirement for MTBing. There are plenty of them owned by non MTBers, after all. And the extra overhead of an e bike is a drop in the ocean compared to any car you'd buy to drive anywhere, and even smaller compared to the rest of your life.

How are you seeing all these Range Rovers in trail centre car parks if you aren't driving to the trail centre yourself? 😉

MTB doesnt have any more green credentials than windsurfing, flying model planes, or any of a bazillion other things that we do for fun that are entirely unnecessary.

So exercise and fun are entirely unnecessary!? I'd suggest you become a buddist but perhaps that's got too much unnecessary philosophy, maybe caveman be more your thing?

I'm not sure MTBing ever really had any "environmental credentials" as such.

It was always just a happy coincidence that bicycles are less terrible for the environment than cars or motorcycles or many other, wheeled hobby/pastime/sports. At best you could claim participants, organizers and companies associated with MTBing were "environmentally agnostic"...

Now we've got the Eeeebs, they're not exactly better environmentally, but they still probably meet the 'less terrible than a car' measure so... I suppose the response is a resounding "Meh!".

People who mostly didn't care, have continued to mostly not care.

I wouldn't look at an MTB rider and assume they were environmentally concerned or aware by default...

Perhaps someone using a cargo/utility type bike/ebike for everyday journeys instead of defaulting to a car, but that wasn't the question was it...

when ebikes at trail centres outnumber ‘normal’ bikes

I would suggest that the vast majority of E bikes worldwide ( come to think of it most bikes ) or even in the UK will never get near a trail Center, this forum is hardly typical of folks who ride bikes is it 🤔 so can’t really be used as a reliable measure.

And in any case who cares what bike you ride or where so long as you enjoy it....
There are far worse things you could be doing to the environment 😉

Interesting points of view all round. I think my view or version of Mtbing is as individual as everyone else's. My last HT I owned from 2006 till 2019/20. I ran that for thousands and thousands of miles just replacing consumables. I bought my car new (1.4 Honda petrol) in 2007 and expect to use it for another 90k at least. I ride 2-3 times a week from the front door and drive to a ride 2-4 times a month out of that. I hope that in comparison to other things I could be doing its relatively "greenish". I'm also hoping that my lifestyle which involves a career in forestry/tree surgery and outdoor hobbies like Mtbing, running and walking will keep me from being a burden on the NHS, something I consider again to minimise my drain on resources and the knock on effect that has. I think we are all different in how we view what we do, I just guess the version of Mtbing I see increasingly doesnt align with what it is to me.

Where i live, to get to any decent trail that isn't just a muddy slog around a field edge, i have to drive. However, that doesn't have to mean a huge carbon footprint:

[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ez078VWXMAILp3Q?format=jpg&name=large [/img]

My solar powered i3, with my 2012 bike, and yes, they are colour matched! (not on purpose, honest....)

Although the rise of trail centres, uplift venues and eMTBs has to make MTBing less environmentally friendly, it might be that for some riders these newer ways of MTBing replace pastimes which have a worse environmental impact.

You need to distinguish ATB from MTB really if you want to assess its green credentials. All Terrain Biking, which is essentially riding out your door and going anywhere you please, is pretty green comparatively speaking, whereas MTB never has been particularly. Of course the term ATB has been lost over the years as MTB sounds cooler, but there once was a distinction.

Thats some complex thing you did, if you did it right.

You can do it relatively simply, plenty of people have calculated a carbon footprint for a bike (I think this was actually in response to Pole or someone greenwashing why they were only making aluminium bikes not carbon so the numbers were being banded about).

Then the CO2 emitted by a car is simply a case of miles/gallon, then kg per gallon, then moles/kg, then moles CO2, then back into kg.

Yes I ignored the embedded energy in the car, tyres etc.

But at the end a new carbon superbike had about the same footprint as driving a few hundred miles.

I’m also hoping that my lifestyle which involves a career in forestry/tree surgery and outdoor hobbies like Mtbing, running and walking will keep me from being a burden on the NHS,

Someone can do everything right lifestyle-wise and still have their health turn to shit…

Obviously true, sudden heart attack or worse can happen to anyone. Doesn't mean that there is no point trying to live the healthiest life you can...

Or you could use the tax band CO2 value,for a minimal value although building a car uses energy too and getting the fuel out of the ground and to the garage etc etc

Someone can do everything right lifestyle-wise and still have their health turn to shit…

This is true. But there is also the effect/question of (1.) Looking after one’s health yet nonetheless being shot from the dark VS (2.) Deciding to buy a gun and play Russian Roulette with 1 empty chamber (rather than 1 bullet)

Now which of being seriously overweight, sedentary and/or smoking VS participating in dangerous sports = the greater burden on the National Health Service, is at least debatable.

I just guess the version of Mtbing I see increasingly doesnt align with what it is to me.

Is it a shocking revelation that MTBing isn't one thing, and that people do it all differently? Are you surprised that MTBing means something different to people who do Red Bull Rampage to those who do bikepacking ultramarathons?

Still can't fathom the point of this thread. Some people are more eco than others, we already know this.

Or you could use the tax band CO2 value,for a minimal value although building a car uses energy too and getting the fuel out of the ground and to the garage etc etc

The point was to prove that the carbon footprint of a mountain bike was negligible compared to other aspects of its use. And it proved that.

Of course you could add layers and layers of working out what fraction of the cars embedded footprint, the mechanics lifestyle, the effect of increased traffic density, the gregs breakfast on the m6 and whatever else. But youd be piling onto something that had already passed the nominal threshold.

The argument given was that Pole bikes were sticking with aluminium as it was recyclable and had a lower carbon footprint. My point was simply to probe that you could throw a carbon bike in an incinerator after it was done with, and the biggest component of its carbon footprint would still have been driving to an enduro race.

hobbies like Mtbing, running

Pretty much everyone I know around my age and older who run (or ran) on a regular basis is ruined. Knackered backs, knees, ankles etc. Running should only happen if it involves chasing or being chased.

@molgrips the point of the thread is obvious isnt it? I thought this was a forum where people provoked conversation. Can't say anything about it is a shocking revelation either. Just that in the places that I visit and the riding I do things seem to have changed rapidly lately. They seem to have changed in a way that seems much less sustainable in general. Not hard to understand.

I tend to mountain bike from the house or we usually holiday in the UK at or close to a trail centre/mountain biking area just come back from a week in Pickering. Only choose trail centres as the youngest is only 9 and though he's been doing red trails since he was six, all the kids prefer trail centres to natural riding at the moment but that's changing.

When they were younger and we were spending time trying to get them to develop we were driving a long way at weekends for the kids to progress without getting bored. I did find it hard driving from Macc to Coed y Brenin to ride the Minatuar trail or when we have a forest 3 miles from the house and the peak on our doorstep but the trails for young kids weren't there.

But things are changing my eldest has done the Macc forest classic loop of few times recently (with an uplift to the Cat and Fiddle) and our next holiday in Dartmoor so there will be more natural riding. In the summer we choose somewhere we can ride from the door so last year in was the Massif Central

And in any case who cares what bike you ride or where so long as you enjoy it….
There are far worse things you could be doing to the environment 😉</>

I care about my footprint on the environment. Unpopular view and statement maybe, but nonetheless it’s part of my decision process about where to live and ride/exercise. The enjoyment of something (at least for me) is dependent on a number of factors and enjoyment itself is rarely the sole deciding factor of whether or not I pursue something.

Before E-bikes it was 27.5”/29”: standards change and we’re encouraged to keep up, which often means changing bikes when there is usable life left in an existing bike, or getting an n+1, neither of which is particularly green. That’s the problem with capitalism...

Doesn’t mean that there is no point trying to live the healthiest life you can…

Totally agree. That was my approach. Obviously in the case of our sport/hobby there is the counter impact of injury and in your case your job too.

I think that in the case of green credentials, I’m not sure that MTB was ever that great - especially in the case in the lure of the shiny, shiny. Consumerism and materialism has a lot to answer for.

I’m probably not the best person to challenge on that, partly because I keep my bikes for a long time, but also because I do reuse my used components to build bikes for my kids and others. One of the things I love to do most is to fix and build all kinds of bikes to either get get people out and about for leisure or indeed commuting etc.

The act of MTB (actually riding the bike) could be seen as green so removing all the non green stuff around it (i.e. driving bike somewhere) would keep it green.
But it may be better to look at what it is the alternative for. If the person was riding their bike at a train centre for their fun and exercise what would they be doing instead and is that better or worse from a green point of view.

I never considered MTBing as having any green credentials and I never heard anyone suggesting it either. Cycling for transport, yes, but not MTB.

As for recent changes, I'd say in the last few years the amount of trails being built by riders in the woods has exploded, and near me it all seems to be local riders, who have likely ridden in.

I have never considered mountain biking green and ebikes are even worse given the process involved to make the batteries.

i find, in general, the whole green agenda hugely hypocritical and usually fronted by people relying on the do as I say not as I do. Extinction rebellion set up a camp last weekend to moan about the council. They traveled from all over the country, set up their tents made from oil without any sense of irony in what they were doing

I wonder if it's more or less green than other 'lifestyle' sports like say, surfing?

I bet more people have to drive further to surf, but on the other hand bikes would produce more CO2 during manufacture.

i find, in general, the whole green agenda hugely hypocritical

It's more complex than that. Firstly, they are definitely right - we are ****ing up the environment regardless of whether or not they've driven to a protest. Secondly you could consider that the positive effect of the eco movement in general outweighs the environmental cost of carrying it out.