The shop I ride for is doing more & more of them, not to the detriment of other bikes though, they tend to be people adding to what they already have.
I'm still resisting the urge to buy one, currently trying to blag instead, but I think whatever happens it absolutely will end up being the next bike I own.
I'm not unfit at all, but my riding is focussed on the fun bits, which generally is a gravity bias. on an ebike, I get more for my money, which means more fun. Doesn't mean I won't ride my other bikes less, or stop racing on them. it just means I will get the chance to ride more 🙂
Sounds like a win to me.
“1) they dont make riding up hills easy unless the assist is turned way up. (and that means range is lowered)
2) they do keep you fit, just not in the same way as above threshold efforts do.”
Maybe it’s just me but a lot of the time when I’m on my own having the assistance means I put far MORE effort into the climbs but they take much less time. So it turns my more steady state endurance exercise into high intensity interval training.
The Chief raising the bar here. That one is hard to top I must say - ebikes as hitherto unappreciated tools for HIIT. Getting your money's worth there and no mistake.
basic physics Dez
Chief's Ebike is no more than 17lb heavier than a similarly spec'd regular spesh Enduro. all that extra weight is concentrated around the BB/Downtube area so turning the bike is not all that much more effort at all and hopping/lifting it simply takes a little more pre-load and slightly different timing/weight shift.
You don't even need to be all that strong. Just a half decent rider.
[EDITY]the HIIT nonsense is just noob e-excitement. it'll wear off
“Chief’s reply is obtuse as usual. He’s saying he can climb faster for the same effort. (Same thing as making the climbs easier, worded differently)”
No, I’m saying I put MORE effort in because I know the climb will take so little time. Partly because I’m better in short bursts, partly because I’m finding it rewarding to go uphill that fast.
And regarding riding it when ill, the trails I was on are tight and wiggly, the sort of trails that suit smaller, lighter, shorter travel bikes. Everyone knows there comes a point when a trail bike or even XC bike is quicker downhill than a DH bike, when a trail is twistier, narrower, smoother and flatter. These are those sort of trails.
you're not putting more effort in though. you're putting DIFFERENT effort in.
doing climb at a lower HR means you're basically sticking to a more consistent HR (e.g. threshold) rather than pushing up towards MAX HR.
its not correct to say you're working harder because you're not. you're doing a different thing.
You can put in whatever effort you want. same as anyone with the power of free will can on any bike.
bottom line is the motor when assisting adds to the effort you do choose to put in.
You're talking complete bollocks about the bike struggling on flat tight twisty trails Chief. That's the rider. Not the bike. You're just not used to it yet. Other than no sat down position being available the main reason a DH bike (assuming a decent rider) is slower on those sort of trails is rolling resistance and slower acceleration. Neither really factor into riding a 2019 levo while assisted.
I have a local 2 mile loop of flat tight twisty rooty woodland singletrack with slight undulation. I've held the Kom for it for years (at just under 10min) done using a short lightweight hardtail. I can beat that time on my Emtb by almost 2 minutes puting in a similar effort.
You'll probably get the hang of it eventually.
I'm not sure about this weight issue. Damn sure my old Cannondale something weighed more than my ebike does and i did alright on that. It's not as fast downhill as the Remedy i have but if you are fortunate like me to be N+1 then it's another option. Not getting rid of either but haven't told the wife yet.
"you’re not putting more effort in though. you’re putting DIFFERENT effort in."
It's quite simple. I'm putting out more power for less time. And because the bike is putting out power too, the climb time is even shorter than if I just sprinted without assistance.
"You’re talking complete bollocks about the bike struggling on flat tight twisty trails Chief. That’s the rider. Not the bike. You’re just not used to it yet."
The rider was ill. Unwell. Sick. Comprendez?
I found that the added weight actually makes e-bikes much more planted on anything pointing downhill consequently I was quicker both up and down . Not sure about the twisty bits , I'm not sure I noticed much difference . Totally unscientific test not timed or using HRM so ignore it if you like .
"It’s quite simple. I’m putting out more power for less time. And because the bike is putting out power too, the climb time is even shorter than if I just sprinted without assistance."
OK i see what you mean. it can be misread easily.
yup you gun it because you can (I would on a climb that I hated before too), but that doesnt mean you put out effort equal to riding it on a normal bike. (nobody said that) i just said its different. Its a different type of power work and you're very likely not going above tempo or threshold HR zones where most people die on climbs. (and why ebikes are good for people who aren't allowed to exceed certain HR)
it just means that the benefits are different (not better, or worse, just different) than on an analog bike where the rider would experience higher HR zones.
so as the other posted said about HIIT.. no actually. its less HIIT like than an analog rider would be. because you're not going and down the HR zones and as you say, your HR would be up high for less time too.
This thread wasn't meant to start a war! /whatisitgoodfor
My point was really that as eBikes are still pretty expensive, although falling in cost all the time, buying one is most likely to be seen as an alternative to buying an expensive pedal powered bike. ie, if you're not rich enough to buy a £3k bike (or more) then currently you can't afford an (new)eBike, no matter how much you want one! Hence my suspicion that eBikes were probably displacing sales of high end conventional bikes. The alternative theory is that there are enough people completely new to the sport, who are rich enough to splash >£3k on their first bike and just buy and ebike. IME that doesn't fit with the general picture of MTB where most people on a nice bike will have started with something a lot cheaper, and only justified the (significant) extra cost once they 'got into it' so to speak?
Hence my suspicion that eBikes were probably displacing sales of high end conventional bikes.
The never-ending goal of the bicycle retail business is to sell you a bike that you weren't otherwise going to buy. If this means a disc-brake road bike to replace a servicable rim-brake model, a gravel bike to fill a niche that you perceive exists between your road and MTBs, a "modern geometry" MTB because your existing bike in the garage is now so out of date that you'd be laughed at were you to turn up at the trail head with it, or an expensive eBike because you can do loads of cool things on it that you can't do on your existing bike.
That's not to say that the above innovations are purely marketing exercises to part you with your money, but it's worth starting from this point of extreme cynicism and to assume that you may be being sold something that you do not need. Then you can make your own decisions as to what you *actually* need and what will make your own journey in cycling more enjoyable for you. It may well be an eBike (or any one of a number of alternatives), but I suspect that the retailers are loving the current burgeoning eBike market, much as ski shops did when carvers were first introduced and everyone, almost overnight, replaced their skis with new ones.
My guess is that at the moment, a certain part of the market are buying expensive eBikes to grow their bike collection, rather than replace / upgrade their existing traditional MTBs, but that these sales aren't necessarily completely cannibalising high-end sales, because of this need to augment rather than replace traditional bikes with eBikes. No evidence, though - just a hunch.
I fell off my Ebike a couple of times after 16 pints and 6 or 7 Joints.
Must be because the bike is heavier.
Comprendez?
nah no really mate.. .you'll have to speak louder I don't understand much Spanish
I don't want an ebike to replace my rigid Cannondale, Ridgeway rocket but I wouldn't mind one for commuting and shopping with a trailer.
However I would bloody love that Norco on the front page. E-fatbikes have to be brilliant!
And there’s always the XC Euros who will keep pedalling uphill alive for us.
I'm not so sure, about a decade ago in the alps I remember most of the locals bikes were pretty XC, us holidaymakers were getting uplifts or at least partial uplifts so were riding much burlier stuff.
I can see the logic if you're local, you want to be able to just go out for a ride without messing about. But I can also see that you might get a fair bit out of an ebike somewhere like that.
Remind me. Someone told me alps now overrun eigh Ebikes.
Where there’s money and limited leisure time they must seem attractive
Where there’s money and limited leisure time they must seem attractive
Or, where there's big climbs and you want to get away from chairlifts to ride a >150mm bike, get more runs in, etc. Applies to areas of the UK also.
But I can also see that you might get a fair bit out of an ebike somewhere like that.
Exactly. My comment about XC Euros wasn't that serious : ) I think I've seen greater % of keen XC whippets in Europe than the UK when away from the chairlift spots but that's only anecdotal observation from a few trips and terrain/location biased, not sure how the overall balance is in various countries.
Back to OP. Looking at sales numbers and hearing from a brand about how sales on non-E model fell alongside the E-bike equivalent I'd say the answer to the OP is yes, but the volume's dropping and E-bike sales are growing in their place - fast. That won't be represented by what we see on the trails yet but in terms of new bike sales I'd be biasing stock towards E-bikes if that were my job (as most retailers are).
Morning all, if I’m honest I don’t want to derail this thread in any way, but I think I need a very simplistic response to what might be an even more simple question and I think there are enough folk here that can do so to help!
I have a significant and sizeable tumour in my upper left thigh that has made walking and general transit very complex. I have no flexibility or power - my leg is redundant as a tool for pushing down or up. My mental health is on the floor as a result, and we are currently here at Centerparcs teaching our 4 and 7 year old girls how to ride, which is both amazing and terribley sad too.
If I was to buy a S/H Haibike or other ebike @ £1500 - £2K in the near future, would it enable me to ride with my girls at Bedgebury, say, just by the battery propulsion itself, and not my legs? I’m hugely embarrassed about having to ask this question, but want time with my girls doing something we all love, and knowing that selling my beloved Travers to afford what I think equates to ‘twist and go’ being a possible solution in the short term. Treat me gently folks!
Yes, you can pretty much just spin very lightly with the bike on max assist and the motor will do the vast majority of the work. Good luck, keep fighting!
I believe Somafunk has one that can be throttle operated (a converted regular bike) so you don’t have to use legs at all, but it’s a legal no no. You could clip in with your other foot on a legal ebike though. There’d be enough assistance to cope with that.
Bullheart - good luck. My few goes on a e-bike have matched what people above have said, you literally just have to rotate the cranks (with hardly any force) and full assistance will give you a 250w boost. Perhaps have a go in a shop - they all work the same way.
