[Closed] Are 650b and 29er that much better than 26er or not really ??

Renton you've owned more bikes than me. Like women there will always be a better looker out there. But you need to settle down dude and have trail babies.

When your Mondeo goes wrong when will you be getting rid of that? Stop dude. Savour life.

renton: How tall are you?

If u r not in a hurry to buy u r welcome to try mine out, it will b ready to roll early February.

I'm in Monifieth, Angus - so not that far....

I've ridden the same bike with 650b and 26" wheels, as well as several other "newer" 650b versions of 26" that I've liked.

All have been faster than the 26" version for the kind of riding I do.

For me, speed is the thing that interests me, rather than playfulness, "fun feel" or whatever, so as has been said, its about picking what best suits your needs/wants. But don't get sucked into the usual "no different", "lizard rulers of the bike industry" hype. Fact is, 650 IS different in the way it rides.

hora - Member
Renton you've owned more bikes than me.

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For hard tails 29" makes a lot of sense, although for shorter riders it can cause fitting issues, trek seem to offer some of their bikes (same model)in 650/29 depending on frame size.

For full suspension 650 makes a lot of sense

I am happy with my carbon fibre 29'er for trail riding, its very fast, surprisingly capable on rough ground and also very fun to ride. When you get used to the larger wheel, you learn to really exploit the momentum

I've borrowed a 650 carbon fibre hard tail with similar spec for a week, rode on my usual trails and the only thing I found was it slower than my 29'er whilst not being any more 'fun' to ride

My full sus 29r makes a lot of sense, why pigeon hole stuff?

On a 29 it felt like a pavement, on the 26 a tricky slippy rooty section.

so now a trail that was challenging is not - what was the point of that ?

so now a trail that was challenging is not - what was the point of that ?

If it helps, I've also ridden that trail on a 29er (ht) and in the wet I still find it quite tricky.

Hmm perhaps that says more about my riding than the bike.

I've got a Salsa Horsethief fs 29er.
I've ridden other bikes, 26 ht and fs, 69er, fat bikes etc, all similar spec levels.

The Salsa is the best. I ride around the 7 stanes, Laggan, local stuff like the Pentland Hills etc. It's fast, comfy, gets over obstacles the best and I do my best riding on it. It can manual, jump and turn just fine.

I've ridden my 29er FS over 3,500KMs on all sorts of trails. It's 130mm/110mm. I also have a 26inch NukeProof Mega. They're both fun, the Mega is probably better suited to about 10% of the stuff we ride (mainly outside the UK), the 29er has been brilliant everywhere else. The high water mark of how hard they can be ridden is me. The best upgrade I had was a second visit to Tony Doyle.

Going from 26 to 29 is pretty easy. Going the other way takes a while. They do ride differently, and it's well worth demo-ing a few to see if they work for you. For a trail bike, I think my Pyga is brilliant. Is it because it has big wheels? No Idea.

Still I've just ordered a Bird Aeris so I can have two bikes quite similar. So you probably shouldn't heed any of my advice!

I had a 26 before my current bike and was aware of the potential marketing hype. I read a lot of reviews before I chose a 2014 Specialized Enduro 29 ( these are currently reduced from £2600 and can be had for £1800. I ride a lot with my son who's 19 & fit as a fiddle I'm 49 and overweight. He tells me slow down as he struggles to keep up whereas before we were evenly matched. I can't persuade you what to buy but don't discount 29ers.

As mentioned before Rose bikes, YT Industries and Canyon all offer Value for money but there are a lot of 2014 bikes on sale at the moment.

There's no way a 29 can be made to feel like a 26, just like a 65 deg HA can't be made to feel like a 70 deg HA.

What 29" have you ridden that were made to feel (handle?) like 26"? Give a 29" a 380mm BB height and it'll start to handle a lot like a 26" as long as wheelbase and angles are comparable. Say 2 degrees slacker HA on the 26".

Of course the 29" will still have lower rolling resistance but that's another story.

For hard tails 29" makes a lot of sense

Agreed. I was so impressed by mine that I had a hunch a full-sus 29er would be even more awesome on my local trails (quite bumpy).

Turns out I was right, happily.

FWIW I might prefer 650b if I lived somewhere that the riding was mostly tight and twisty or mega techy.

I sold my 5 Spot last year. Bought a 650b. Thaaaaaaaat's right. I made the change. I like the change and I'm sticking with the change. Pow! Back of the net.

What did you go for coogan and how does it compare to the five spot ?

Have you considered a red bike?
I heard they're really fast.
Or maybe a blue bike.
I heard they can entice you to ride more.

I've just swapped from a 26 inch Ibis mojo HD (the frame + shock is for sale if anyone wants it) to a 650b Orbea Rallon.

Theres no doubt about it the Rallon absolutely flies on rough downhills that would have had the Mojo Hd feeling a bit rough. I very much doubt that is solely down to the larger wheel size,but its probably a contributory factor, I expect its a combination of everything. What I cant detect though is any downside to the larger wheels, apart from the cost of buying new wheels ,forks etc.

My 29ner is easier to ride faster on faster tracks (and the road), it's black. My 26 HT is more fun in the naggery bits, it's white but it might all be down to geometry.
Ps my yellow bike is the most fun to look at and silver the smartest...

I would have to go 650b,don't think I would notice the 1.5" extra..........correct me if I'm wrong STW ers

Ta, the difference between 26 and 27.5 is 25 mm, not 1.5 inches.

mattjg - Member
If it helps, I've also ridden that trail on a 29er (ht) and in the wet I still find it quite tricky.

Hmm perhaps that says more about my riding than the bike.

I crashed on that trail the other day on a 26 HT. Clearly the bike is wrong. Not the fact it was sloppy, I picked the wrong line and overbalanced crashing down off the side 😉

But seriously, ridden it for years on a 26, FS and HT and it's a right laugh. If it was smooth and simple I just wouldn't ride it. Not sure 29ers smooth that one out though. The main advantage is probably just in rolling through the ditch into the car park 😉

Anyway, I ride weekend warrior stuff, mostly with people on 26s and a couple of 650b. Then I ride evening rides, more xc or less "gnar" trails, and half the people there ride 29ers and I'm on my 26. The only disadvantage I feel I have is when we hit a bit of flat steep fireroad climb and the 29ers cruise up the hill past me. Once we hit the twisty trails the field is levelled again.

Just become a 650 convert. Swapped my 10yr old(gave to son)Kona Dawg for a RM Altitude(cheap one!)and there is definitely a difference. Whether it is the wheel size or just the package as a whole it definitely is faster, smoother and going to get me into trouble(injured)soon 🙄
I suspect my Blue Pig may become redundant.....

Just went out on a 29, a 650b and a 26 today. Recently bought a 650b frame as well, prefer the 26. I found cornering much easier than even the 650b bike and any difference in roll over could be negated by just attacking the trail more confidently.

Still, maybe it just takes a while to adjust to the wheel size?

Recently changed to 650b and I,m a lot more confident on tecky slow stuff on the downs!
First ride of 2015 today and I got loads of KOMs 🙂

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I have the full range... bmx, 24'' retro dh, 26'' ht and fs with 650b (27.5'' is incorrect) wheels to go in them and 29er ht and fs.
650b is incorrect. Should your 29ers be called 700c?

I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .

Swapped my 10yr old(gave to son)Kona Dawg for a RM Altitude(cheap one!)and there is definitely a difference

Wheel size definately doesn't make up for travel though does it - check out 1.12 to 1.18.

First bike is a 650b with 160mm of travel, 2nd is 650b with 140 front 125 rear, second is 29er with 110mm on the rear.

Is it me or does the 29er looks no where near as composed?

I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .

If you assume that a 26 wheel is actually 26" in diameter (it isn't, unless you use tiny tyres), then a 29 wheel is actually 28.5".

@renton I bough a Pivot Mach 6 and I bloody love it. How does it compare, well I do think it's better than my 5 Spot (and I loved that bike, in fact both I had) but difficult to say it's better because of yada yada as there is almost 5 years of difference in terms of age, design etc, not a fair comparison. One was alu and the Pivot is carbon fibre, so it's lighter, stiffer etc.

But over all I'm faster on the Pivot, it does carry its speed better and its an absolute hoot to ride. The reason I looked at the Mach 6 is its a DW link like he 5 spot and I'm a big fan of DW links.

But, as always, you gotta test test test! I I tested it, fell for it, bought it.

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I think the point being made here is that 29er wheels actually are 29inch whereas 27.5 wheels actually come up at just over 27.1 .
If you assume that a 26 wheel is actually 26" in diameter (it isn't, unless you use tiny tyres), then a 29 wheel is actually 28.5".

A 29er wheel with a 2.25 tyre on it will actually measure 29 inches .

To be fair renton, it sounds like you need a road bike. Less faff, no driving to trails, just ride straight from, your door. Much cheaper and they last alot longer aswell. A road bike is the bike half of mountain bikers actually need.

A 29er wheel with a 2.25 tyre on it will actually measure 29 inches

The 27.5 wheels with Trail King 2.2 tyres on my full-sus measure 28". The 26 wheels on my hardtail with Rubber Queen 2.2 (same tyre, different name) measure 27".

My take on the whole wheel size argument is that 29ers for taller riders & long distance mile munching, 650b for more smiles than miles.

My take on the whole wheel size argument is that 29ers for taller riders & long distance mile munching, 650b for more smiles than miles.

I'd call you wrong then! On anything other then tame arsing about my 29" FS is more fun (IMO).

I've never ridden one, but it's pretty clear to see that 650b is just the same as 26". If you don't enjoy riding your current 26" bike, then you won't enjoy the 650b version either.

It's actually not at all though.

29" are totally different though. But if you're just bombing round trail centres allday, then I doesn't make any difference.

Yes it does.

It's actually not at all though.

What sort of differences do the 650b wheels make do you think?

mikewsmith - Member
Swapped my 10yr old(gave to son)Kona Dawg for a RM Altitude(cheap one!)and there is definitely a difference

I'd hope so, I remember demoing one of those dawgs back then and I was less than impressed then, stuff moves on in 10 year shocker

Can't see why it should be a "shocker" that the RM is better than a 10yr old bike, be a bit disappointed if it wasn't.
The OP question is whether 650/29 is better than 26, didn't specify any age of bike. Therefore imo I have found 650 to be better. Whether it is just the wheels or the overall package I am not qualified to comment. I just ride......
I have also tested 29er Treks and Orange 5/29 and prefer the RM.

Wheel size definately doesn't make up for travel though does it - check out 1.12 to 1.18.

First bike is a 650b with 160mm of travel, 2nd is 650b with 140 front 125 rear, second is 29er with 110mm on the rear.

Is it me or does the 29er looks no where near as composed?

I think it looks composed enough, but it is noticeably that it disappears as soon as they do anything "big" then pops up again as the trail gets easier. Could just be marketing though.

What sort of differences do the 650b wheels make do you think?

Same as the 700c wheels.

There are some things in engineering where there is a step change in behaviour, like the Reynolds transition from laminar to turbulent flow, or subsonic to supersonic speed, but the handling of a bike due to its wheel size is not one of those things.

Wheel size linearly affects angle of attack, shape of contact patch, rotational inertia and trail (distance between projected steering axis and centre of contact patch). Assuming identical tyre profiles then 27.5 is a bit more like 26 than like 29 but it definitely feels different to either.

The other factor is bottom bracket vs axle height. Bottom bracket rise causes inherent instability whilst BB drop gives stability). 29ers always have significant drop. 26ers with BB above ~345mm have rise. 27.5 always have some drop. This difference can make 27.5 feel more like 29 than 26.

I think it looks composed enough, but it is noticeably that it disappears as soon as they do anything "big" then pops up again as the trail gets easier. Could just be marketing though.

Personally and I know it's totally subjective but I think it's quite obvious, the rider seems to be getting more feedback and both the front and rear seem to hang up on one of the square edged hits more.

Most likely just my imagination.

I'd love to see some repeated high speed camera footage of similar specced bikes with different wheel sizes/travel being ridden by a rider back to back through various sections.

Can't see why it should be a "shocker" that the RM is better than a 10yr old bike, be a bit disappointed if it wasn't.

My experience of owning a FS 29er, and riding loads of others, is that you have to spend a fair whack of cash in order to dial out the 29er 'feeling' and make the best of the advantages. There's no getting away from the fact that big wheels are heavier, longer forks are flexier etc etc. Also depends on whether you judge a bike on pure speed. Of course a 29er will be fawster on bumpy flat ground. Of course a long travel 29er will plough through DH chunder better than the same travel bike with shorter wheels. I jumped on a mates Banshee Prime once and went straight into some 'gnar' and I didn't even have to think about line choice. Pretty boring really. None of this makes me want to own another 29er though. Might as well just drive a car 😉

mikewsmith - Member
Can't see why it should be a "shocker" that the RM is better than a 10yr old bike, be a bit disappointed if it wasn't.

Sarcasm

i thought it was 2015 now, why are we arguing about the same things we were in 2013?

the people who have never ridden the wheel size still hate it.

the people who don't want to ride anything but 26" still hate the other sizes

the early adopters of 29/27.5" are still desperately defending their choice

there's only one way to tell and that's to ride all the choices and decide for yourself

It is 2015, and yet [b]you[/b] keep adding to these threads.

You can't complain about the repeating conversation when you seem to enjoy stirring with the same old stick yourself.

It is 2015, and yet you keep adding to these threads.

You can't complain about the repeating conversation when you seem to enjoy stirring with the same old stick yourself.

i thought it was 2015 now, why are we arguing about the same things we were in 2013?

looks like a question followed by a statement to me?

but thanks for caring 😆 i honestly thought no one took any notice of what i post