Not seeking controversy or debate over the merits of 1x or 2x, but a long weekend on my 10 year old 2x hardtail has convinced me, rightly or wrongly, I would be happiest sticking with 2x for 'touring' MTB duties. I would love something faster though, or at least have a replacement lined up if my Superfly eventually dies...
I've googled it a few times and it really does seem like there's nothing off the shelf any more, I think I saw a range of carbon hardtails that had the tell-tail little plate on the side of the seat tube which I presume was for a front mech, but I can't remember which brand or find the page again 🙄
Alternative is a Cutthroat build with Rebas or SIDs and a 2x with a 10-45 cassette, but I understand you have to play silly buggers with Cutthroats to get a 2x chainset in there, and I haven't yet figured out if you could find a rear mech with a suitable range...
Genuinely surprised there isn't still a (niche) market for it with folk doing Ultras etc. where you might be tarmac and aero bars one minute and grovelling up steep climbs the next...
Anything I've missed?
Cotic Solaris can take a front mech. It needs to be side swing type.
My 2012 Kona Raijin Ti HT is still running the 2 x 10 XT drivetrain I bought when new , it's perfect for local duties 👍
Yeah I would be happy just to upgrade the Superfly a bit, just nice to know there is a backup option!
The Solaris looks great, probably a smidge slacker than the Superfly, not sure what difference that makes, would have liked to save some weight going carbon or Ti but at least I would have the reassurance of steel. Could offset the weight difference with some SIDs, my ancient Rebas probably aren't the lightest 😂
I’d have thought the lack of companies making/releasing MTB front mechs aimed at the enthusiast market would be the issue, a brief google looks like they only go as far as deore m6000 spec, so no frame builders are gonna go to the expense of putting the mounts in
I’d have thought the lack of companies making/releasing MTB front mechs aimed at the enthusiast market would be the issue, a brief google looks like they only go as far as deore m6000 spec, so no frame builders are gonna go to the expense of putting the mounts in
Shimano still list 2x front XT derailleurs. The reason there aren't bikes available with 2x is that eliminating the front derailleur allows wider rear tyres and shorter rear chainstays, plus better chain retention. 2x is a niche market. (I still run 2x on most of my bikes, but I understand why 1x is now the norm.)
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M6025-L.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M6025-H.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M6025-D.html
Custom Ti. Spec whatever you want. My B+ hardtail runs 2x no problem.
Sorry, wrong links. Here are the XT ones.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M8100-M.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M8100-E.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-SG/products/components/pdp.P-FD-M8100-D.html
Custom Ti. Spec whatever you want. My B+ hardtail runs 2x no problem
Yeah... I was getting kind of excited at the prices of some of the full build hardtails I was seeing, you get sooo much for your money compared to gravel bikes!
Looks like frame only might be a safe bet for now at least.
Forget the front mech, get a classified powershift hub instead. Surprised tomhoward didn't suggest it already 😀
Forget the front mech, get a classified powershift hub instead. Surprised tomhoward didn't suggest it already 😀
Fairly certain that would end up costing the same as a new bike 😂
Custom Ti. Spec whatever you want. My B+ hardtail runs 2x no problem.
Sounds expensive!
I have a vague idea that the On-One Whippet may (or perhaps may have been) 2x capable but probably worth double checking.
Kinesis FF 29 lists as front mech compatible
Ive a cutthroad with 2*11 ?. Grx800 front and rear mech although I run a. Dropper plate at the front to accommodate the smaller rings
11-36 and a 28:38 xtr front.
But like you I fear the replacement of rings etc for a double so I snapped up 3 sets of xtr double ring take offs off eBay mega cheap
Kinesis FF 29 lists as front mech compatible
Got excited there, Kinesis always seems to be about my budget 😂
Bit of a different breed of frame from what I'm looking for sadly, looks lovely though.
On-one Whippet
We have a winner! 🤩 Identical geometry too, shame full builds are sold out, the carbon rigid fork would have been handy also...
Best do my research, looks like it has a fitting for braze on front mechs, didn't realise such a thing existed for MTBs...
I had a carbon forked Whippet and it was decent enough. Deserve a better build than On One give them though.
I had a carbon forked Whippet and it was decent enough. Deserve a better build than On One give them though.
The weird economics of Planet X mean it almost seems more cost effective buying a complete build and selling everything (because what Facebook Marketplace really needs is another 2kg set of bargain 29er wheels 🙄) except the frame and fork.
Moot point as they're out of stock of my size for now...
Be a mighty chilly day in hell before I recommend anything related to hub gears.
The issue with modern hardtails really is the Gravel market... It has just totally decimated modern hardtail availability... As such, the variety is lacking and the market is pretty much geared towards entry level trail hardtails that will serve as a gateway to someone getting onto a full sus trail bike sooner than later.
Back when 10spd was current, I mostly ran a 24/36 chainset with an 11-36 cassette, which gave an overall ratio of 491%, and I never felt that range lacking... Some were running 24/38 with 11-36 and that gave 518% which was more than enough... Modern 1x groupsets have that covered though, and without the ratio duplicates! Hence why as soon as you're past 9spd, you just don't see front derailleurs on MTB's any more in reality... Especially given that most people for whom two chainrings and a closer ratio cassette would be more beneficial than a single ring with a wider spaced cassette, want drop bars and skinnier tyres anyway... Hence the prevalence of Gravel bikes these days!
Especially given that most people for whom two chainrings and a closer ratio cassette would be more beneficial than a single ring with a wider spaced cassette, want drop bars and skinnier tyres anyway...
Yeah totally, I was a massive gravel convert and running the biggest/lowest range I could achieve on 2x (could probably have messed around going 'off-manual' to get more range at the back) but I just love how forgiving the 29er is for the big long days when I don't need or want the faster handling or roadie characteristics of a gravel bike. See thols2 'niche market' comment above.
Modern 1x groupsets have that covered though, and without the ratio duplicates!
Ratio duplicates aren't inherently a bad thing though, if nothing else they're just a small price to pay for being able to pick and choose combos with the best chainline/chain wrap for smoothest and quietest pedalling. But these are the sort of subjective issues I promised I wouldn't start debating at the top of the thread 😂
Also, in 'I had to ask therefore probably can't afford it': custom 32" aluminium frame hand built right here in Scotland 🤩 Stick a front mech on it and I've got my dream MTB-tourer right there.
Awaits price with baited breath...
Awaits price with baited breath...
They were at the recent Bespoked Cycle Show with that bike although as with everything at Bespoked, there's never a price shown because everything is so custom. The bike did look very nice though!
Singular were there with a custom 32" as well, I'm sure you could get one of them with front mech capabilities.
I can’t see a price, which is worrying. But does anyone know what they cost?
I can’t see a price, which is worrying. But does anyone know what they cost?
I emailed Hrok, will post up here. I guess you're also into the realms of custom or niche forks which won't help costs.
On the flip side I would gladly sell the gravel bike for one of those which might help offset the cost a smidge.
On the basis that the titanium Singular Albatross 'rolling package' is £3500, I'm going to guess that the Hrok comes in at £1500. Custom 853 gravel was £1200 when I bought my Rourke but that didn't have any bells or whistles (e.g. internal routing or fancy dropouts).
If you're after a tourer have a look at the Brother Cycles Big Bro. It's steel, so not the lightest, but has steel & carbon fork options.
Takes a front mech. and has clearance for 48/36/26 trekking kit.
https://www.brothercycles.com/shop/frames/big-bro/
Great to see someone doing custom ally rather than the usual steel in the UK.
I'd happily go with that if I was after a replacement bike packing machine, or hardtail I can't find off the shelf.
The value of Chinese Ti custom is very hard to overlook though...
To be honest, I'm not convinced that that you can't stick a front mech. on most frames with a cylindrical seat tube. You wouldn't be able to run the absolute widest tyres of course, but that's also true for a mech. capable frame when you have a front mech. fitted.
My MkIV Swift doesn't have a front mech. cable stop, but the band-on cable stop I have has been flawless. The only concession to mech. compatibility was a 3 cable option in the modular cable guides pack but there are plenty of effective adhesive cable guides otherwise that wouldn't be too unsightly.
It's not ideal of course & a bit of a bodge, but if you find an otherwise great frame and/or can't afford to go custom if might be something to think about
To be honest, I'm not convinced that that you can't stick a front mech. on most frames with a cylindrical seat tube. You wouldn't be able to run the absolute widest tyres of course, but that's also true for a mech. capable frame when you have a front mech. fitted.
^^this^^ basically, but also:
Especially given that most people for whom two chainrings and a closer ratio cassette would be more beneficial than a single ring with a wider spaced cassette, want drop bars and skinnier tyres anyway...
Can’t argue with that^^.
I like my 2x gravel bike and it has supplanted my rigid 29er in many respects, which is of course now 1x and simply a local hack about and winter fun machine.
At the same time 2x increasingly seems to be the “marginal” choice on gravel bikes now, most new ones seem to be 1x as a default and you have to actively opt for 2x. Give it another 5 years and the front mech might be a roadie and hybrids only sort of thing…
"Marginal" is a good choice of word, for me it's the "marginal" benefits of 2x that I'm still committed to, for the (relative terms here 🙄) fast and long trips I'm doing/ hoping to do on the bike.
I guess though that buying one of the rapid looking 1x XC bikes I keep seeing (latest being a lovely Cannondale Scalpel HT) I could probably make peace with losing the marginal benefits of 2x for the sake of the probably much more noticeable gains of a 3kg lighter bike 😂
Maybe the best idea is to look for a carbon framed XC hardtail with a round seat tube, as suggested above. They mostly all come with the big flared seat tube/BB junction now though.
Back in bodging mode, would one of these allow the fitting of current e-type mechs.?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/shimano-xtr-fdm980e-bottom-bracket-plate-5m5-5000/
Yeah those e-type mechs could be a winner, just need to wrap my head around all the various spacings and clearances, I haven't really moved on from 68mm BBs and 135mm OLD 😂
Finding some new old stock frames still hanging around as well which still have round seat tubes.
Stout/Hrok got back in touch, he doesn't have a formal price structure yet, basically as s rolling package for a 32" frame (e.g. frame forks and wheels) it would be cheaper than an equivalent Ti Singular, although I think he's reserving the right to charge more as he refines his builds. Basically out of my price range sadly ☹️
FWIW I've already seen one article suggesting that we'll "need' a new hub size for 32" wheels.
One step at a time. The marketeers need to let everyone buy 148mm boost 32er first, and then they will need a new 152mm hub size so everyone has to go and re-buy all the stuff again.
I'm just waiting for 36er, and skipping the tweener size. By then everyone will only be needing a granny ring, so a mech won't be of much use.
The weird economics of Planet X mean it almost seems more cost effective buying a complete build and selling everything (because what Facebook Marketplace really needs is another 2kg set of bargain 29er wheels 🙄) except the frame and fork.
It used to be that (1) the frames could be bought at a good price so long as you waited for a "deal" (aka normal pricing) and (2) there were up-speccing options for the more popular models. Definitely not the current model. I did look a while back.
I am looking back to the era of the 456, which is getting on for 20 years back now 😬
FWIW I've already seen one article suggesting that we'll "need' a new hub size for 32" wheels.
As neither boost nor superboost will be enough.
Super-king-size-mega-boost?
There's something to be said for 2* I notice the cassette gaps on the gravel bike Vs the odd pedal on my sons' road bikes.
Sadly off-road I think if not now, then in 5 years you will be shouting at the incoming spring tide. 😞
It's not cheap, but I'm guessing (perhaps wrongly) that those 2 holes above the BB are for front mech. mounting.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/xtc-advanced-sl-29-frameset-2025
You're absolutely right, those look like e-type derailleur mounts 🤩
I'd looked at those frames as well, maybe just didn't spot those mounts on my phone screen.
That's probably custom aluminium 32er money right enough, but at least my existing wheels and forks would work with it...
I agree with the OP, I think a variation on the GRX 2x11 would make a far better 'XC' group set than 1x12.
I've actually got a NOS XTR chain set sat in a box waiting for a suitable build! The trouble is still finding a frame though.
I aesthetically dislike the bodge of long rigid forks in suspension corrected frames. But the only one that bucks this trend I know of is the Charge Cooker 0, but that lacks any mounts at all, even a derailleur hanger! I'd like to try a Stooge Dirt Tracker to see how it feels for long days in the saddle
The reason there aren't bikes available with 2x is that eliminating the front derailleur allows wider rear tyres and shorter rear chainstays, plus better chain retention. 2x is a niche market. (I still run 2x on most of my bikes, but I understand why 1x is now the norm.)
Sort-of. It definitely applies to FS bikes, because you need to mount the swingarm somewhere around where the cage of the front mech sits. I'm unconvinced by the arguments made around aligning the chainring and the pivot point, physics doesn't care if you're putting 50% more force through a lever 33% shorter (i.e. a mid vs granny ring), it does care about the vector of that force (i.e. the angle from the chainring to the cassette. I suspect we possibly ended up with the right answer (desire for a more downward chain angle) but with the wrong reasoning. The same (but to a lesser extent, you could design around it) applies to carbon HT's, why go to the compromise of having to have a round seat-tube and less material around/above the BB if you don't have to.
