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The phrase I always dread is "just do whatever needs doing" - that can go either way, depending on whether the person has a realistic idea of what condition their bike is in and what repairs really cost.
closely followed by "I've fitted everything it just needs tuning"
Is it ever appropriate to advise a service? I suppose for cheaper bikes they're not really justifiable?
Thinking about when taking a car into a garage for a problem, if something unknown is discovered as part of their work they'll contact the customer to discuss. Mostly bike issues should be pretty easy to spot though as so much simpler so uncommon for later issues to be found I guess. Don't suppose many shops would want to give an unsafe bike back to a customer - well I once got one back without the stem bolts tightened but that's incompetence!
The cost of the "traditional" free first service on bikes will wipe out much of the profit on a cheap bike. Of course you do have the customer back in the shop so you can do the "need anything else sir/madam?" sales line.
"The cost of the "traditional" free first service on bikes will wipe out much of the profit on a cheap bike. Of course you do have the customer back in the shop so you can do the "need anything else sir/madam?" sales line."
Not really....if the first free service takes more than 15 minutes you better employ better bike builders as your sticking crap out the door first time round ( barring mechanical failure - bathtub model and all that)
Adds Mudshark to the 'List' 🙄
CaptainFlashheart - MemberSome shops give discounts and some will throw in freebies; worth asking really.
Be sure to ask next time you're at a supermarket. Or your local corner shop for a pint of milk. After all, they're only there to give you a discount and some freebies. You deserve it, just for asking, no matter what. They're not there to provide a service, and woe betide that anyone should be allowed to actually make a living out of it....
FFS.
Say's the guy who always bangs on about the cheesiness that is 'just give the chaps so doughnuts and biscuits, they always then 'sort' me out, wot wot' 🙄
Rorschach - am I missing something?
it takes me about 5-10 mins in the cold and wet to do. Should take less for a pro bike mechanic.
the customer may be back in a few weeks looking for a new bike.
The fact is they won't though.
Even with most my bikes tubeless I probably still get through an average of a tube a month. So by your logic I'd be needing/getting 12 free tube fittings. I buy one bike a year, if that, and usualy 2nd hand!
Surely most people who bring tubes into shops are not like us - we have to fix punctures on the side of the road/trail or we're stuck. These people are mostly cycling commuters, I imagine, and casual users. I told a mate when he bought a bike off me he should get some spare tubes and a pump but told me he'd just get his wife to pick him up if he punctured.
Anyway, shops fixing tubes for free isn't the way forward I'm sure.
trail_rat - Member
Not really....if the first free service takes more than 15 minutes you better employ better bike builders as your sticking crap out the door first time round ( barring mechanical failure - bathtub model and all that)
I always suspect the first free service at Halfords is a nightmare, and frequently used just a month after purchase 😉
More so given they chuck in GT-85 with about every purchase possible and tell the customers to use it to lube up everything, so end up destroying all the bearings 😀 (well the BSOs Halfords sell probably don't even have bearings anyway).
OK I get it nowYour LBS should fit inner tubes for free and carry out minor repairs for free. That will get loads of customers into the shop. You can then teach them to repair their bike so they can buy their new bits online. You can then advise them on what new bike will work for them and perhaps offer set up advice and a test ride. They will then ask how much the bike is and then be deeply offended that you want feel full retail and buy that online as well
I really can't see why that won't work
I think this is spot on really.
Every time this subject comes up I'm surprised by how many people think LBS people should do things for free or at a serious discount all the time. People who I very much doubt think they should do the same in their own line of work.
Stop expecting gleaming customer service just because you've walked in a shops door! This is not America. 😛
Tricky one, I suppose it depends on how much he's spent over the years in store, if he's just some walk in chancer then that's the right call - do one, be on your way. But if he's a regular hell we do it on the trails often enough helping out muppets who are slowing up the ride, we don't charge them.
We've even helped change kite bladders and they take a lot more frigging about with but then the bladders are a lot more expensive than six quid.
I wouldn't expect ANY shop to fit a tube for free. It can get fiddly and what if theres a problem with the rim tape, rim dent etc. Where do you stop and say 'ok I need to charge you'?
You'd end up spending alot of your day working for free and potential customers walking in and out because no ones free/everyones tied up.
What I do object to is RRP/high prices/assumption that if you walk in you MUST buy something. Just because I look at and try on some knee pads doesn't mean I'll spend 50quid+.
I bet alot of bikeshop sales come from browsing with no initial intent.
If I try a helmet on does it automatically mean I'll go and buy it online? No.
Staff should be there to help facilitate questions/answers - help if someone wants to purchase not fit things for free nor pressure either.
Just for contrast - my LBS does plenty of work for free, if I pop in for a chat and the mechanic isn't busy it's bike up in the stand, gears adjusted, chain wear checked, wheels checked for play/spoke tightenss and my taste in bar tape/bottle colour coordination critiqued while I pop over the shop for the "CFH approved hobnob and donut payment"
Even though I don't spend a fortune in there (by stw-illionaire standards) I do spend regularly and most things get a bit of discount.
It's a [i]proper[/i] LBS though, in a small town/village which still has a local high street atmosphere, all the staff live round the area and always see them out and about.
Guess I'm just lucky to have them, some of the other shops/staff above sound rank to be honest.
Spot on hora bar pricing.
We sell most stuff at RRP, are able to discount a fair bit due to being a chain.
Most staff are on minimum wage or close.
People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to CRC, Amazon etc. I suppose the market will sort itself out, its just frustrating to hear "well I suppose I have t buy these brake pads for today's ride even though they are cheaper online".
Why not offer - £50 puncture repair kit, saddle bag, mini pump, patches, levers, 2 tubes and someone to show you how to swap a tube.
you can sell this with every bike, or people walking in off the street.
Difference between crc and rrp, pay rrp now and we'll credit difference on all purchases to your account upto £250 / year and you can have it off the next bike you buy?
and massively in debt but don't want to have to cut down on buying shiny things...People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to CRC, Amazon etc.
People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to
council tax,water rates, electricity bill, mobile phone bill, childcare/nursery bills, petrol prices. Etc.
CRC etc are a help not a cause. If a shop says they price match I'll use them as it means I can afford cycling kit.
I need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!
Evans charge a tenner (in London at least), plus the cost of the tube. It doubles to 20 for hub gears and anything else faffy.
They're clearly doomed and will soon disappear from the high street.
Maybe its different down england way but i still keep my oar on at a few shops ive worked in and what most of them express these days as a want over increased market share and more sales is another mechanic and more hours in the day. - waitin lists of a couple of weeks to get repairs done - in a small town ffs. Thats with 3 mechanics as well. Another has a 6week waiting list and is screamin to hire more mechanics but cant get them. They pay a decent mechanics wage as well- Sounds to me like their business model doesnt need adjustin to suit stw. Infact the two local shops that did bend over to meet stws expectations ( create a lifestyle meeting place , give silly discounts , free repairs , free demos, product nights ) went bust once the banks cut off their cash.
Some retailers do match online prices - Evans anyway - but building up credit in this way would be hard to manage. Maybe a default 10% to be used against later bike purchase would be doable? Or maybe any purchase over, say, £100 up to a max of 50% of the price?
Evans charge a tenner (in London at least), plus the cost of the tube. It doubles to 20 for hub gears and anything else faffy.
They charge £6 to change a tube and things like cut steerer/fit SFN is £11.
Generally (and this is all chains/specialist bikeshops) Paying your staff min. wage to sell bike products into the 000's is a poor show. Sorry.
Not sure what store managers are on now but I remember Evans used to pay store managers 25k. That to me was appalling.
Why's it appalling? If the shops get good enough people at the salaries offered then that's fine surely? Whilst they may be selling bikes (some) in the 000s the profit levels may not be considered high - especially in some rural areas.
A bike shop paying minimum wage selling cheap products. Or a shop selling bicycles that can be in their thousands, innertubes etc etc with margins.
Sorry - share the love. Pay abit better.
Price doesn't matter, profit does. Bike shops aren't the worst culprits for sure!
Generally (and this is all chains/specialist bikeshops) Paying your staff min. wage to sell bike products into the 000's is a poor show. Sorry.
You think they have the money? Just because abike sells at thousands someone is coining it in?
You say you shop at CRC. Do you not see how you are creating the situation?
You havent a clue.
I would say offer them a reduced price for the first time of fitting a tube. Also ask if they would like to be shown how to do it. If they say no, you know they probably won't come back very often.
If they say yes, you've potentially got a regular who has newly taken on the sport. Anything you can do to help them get started will result them coming back repeatedly. I know I would. Especially if it builds a social community within your shop. Customers are more likely to come back for fittings, kits and maybe bikes.
That's the one thing a LBS can offer that Halfords etc can't really offer, personal service.
Just because abike sells at thousands someone is coining it in?
Next you'll be telling me a 3k RRP has a £100 margin.
It'll have more margin for sure (although less than you'd imagine).
But margin doesn't = profit. By the time all the stores costs have come out, it might well be down to £100.
Why not offer - £50 puncture repair kit, saddle bag, mini pump, patches, levers, 2 tubes and someone to show you how to swap a tube.you can sell this with every bike, or people walking in off the street.
Do you honestly reckon there'd be many takers for this?
Can't really criticise you for this as I've also bought a Troy Lee lid (full face) from CRC at a massive discount. Mine still had the price tag (in dollars) from a US motorbike store stuck on the inside though so I'm pretty sure they have just bought up a huge job lot of old stock, most likely for pennies.CRC etc are a help not a cause. If a shop says they price match I'll use them as it means I can afford cycling kit.I need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!
I seriously doubt any LBS has the purchasing power to match CRC so you can't really expect them to match bargains like this though.
Sorry - share the love. Pay abit better.
And fit inner tubes free too! It's the way forward, I tell thee!
In all seriousness Al, I've worked in retail in various guises and you have my sympathy. Some of the mis-informed crap out there is unbelievable.
I had one 'gent' quote retail law at me regarding refunds because, apparently, his sister was a lawyer and had told him. I replied telling him that she wasn't a very good lawyer as I too knew retail law, and she was completely wrong.
hora - MemberI need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!
Yup- and you seem happy with the downsides, ie not getting to see it or try it before it arrives, risk of postal delays or loss, no immediate shop backup etc. So that's cool, that's the flipside.
Unless of course you tried one on in a shop, in which case you're a ****.
Next you'll be telling me a 3k RRP has a £100 margin.
It'll have more margin for sure (although less than you'd imagine).
But margin doesn't = profit. By the time all the stores costs have come out, it might well be down to £100.
On top of this, how many shops can afford to have a £3k bike as regular stock? It's a lot of outlay for something that's quite specific re. sizing and spec. In a smaller shop there's also a good chance it'd need to be discounted to sell unless it's been ordered in, as the customer base hunting for that particular product in the shop's area will be very slim.
Ultimately that means the shop will have bought the bike in at top top trade price, because it won't have got any sort of quantity deal, and sold at rock-bottom retail, substantially eating into any sort of profit.
The profit/margin stuff reminds me of the property renovation shows that were on during the housing boom.
Couple would buy a house spend every spare hour renovating it and then sell it for a great profit. Except once you added in their costs and materials it was bugger all and equated to an hourly rate in pence and they would have made more by leaving it for 6 months and selling it again.
Northwind there are downsides but Im in no rush. Sale bin shopping allows me to afford bikes when nursery fees are £700+ a month.
Sale bin shopping is fine but itll never get shop workers paid more - in fact less, if their jobs survive.
it's a lost cause Al, you know the STW collective bike shop and importers would pay their staff really well, sell kit at trade or less (or just what ever someone wants to pay), stock 3 of everything in every size, ship their imports in secret to avoid import duty and have no mechanics but entire racks of tools that the masses could just use then a magic fairy to fix all their mistakes.
The closing down sale would be a good event
If you only make £100 on a 3k bike and are underpaid then is this a sensible job/ business model? What sets a LBS apart from CRC? Most LBS's haven't worked this out and do the same old thing expecting improved results. Customer service and advice has to come in somewhere so as with much of retail you have to do a little work for free in the short term for longer term gains. It is quite telling that everyone in a LBS here has said they don't do anything for free. It is kind of required short term for a bricks and mortar shop. If there is really no money in a LBS and you do it for the love then embrace anyone cycling and spread the love 😀 .... but the guy in the OP did sound like a nobber so was probably not the person to invest your time and passion in 😀
as with much of retail you have to do a little work for free in the short term for longer term gains
Really? What other retail businesses do work for free in the hope of further business later? If anything it's the opposite - the secondhand bookshop I frequent now gives me a small (un-asked-for) discount because I've spent so much there.
drug dealers?What other retail businesses do work for free in the hope of further business later?
Lots of retail outlets use some kind of loss leader model to generate income later. Halfords for example can sell components under trade price from time to time to get customers looking their way for stuff in future which is perhaps at more "normal" prices but a LBS might have to offer services for the same effect where it is more economical than doing so in goods.... Not saying you have to work for free all the time but if part of what sets a LBS apart from CRC is a friendly face and excellent customer service then a bit of extra help surely goes a long way. Otherwise what does your LBS offer that you can't get at CRC? A LBS can't compete on price so it must compete in other areas.
It sounds like the customer in the OP had a poor way of going about it but if someone came in and bought a tube and asked nicely for some help to learn how to change it would you all still say "I don't work for free" rather than come up with a compromise towards helping out?
Been watching this thread with interest......
As someone who's spent, well, all my life really, learning to do mechanical stuff before getting a job as an LBS mechanic last year I think I can see both sides. I understand why customers think it should be free to fit a tube. It's usually a peice of piss, isn't it?
It honestly took me 4-5 months before I was comfortable with charging LBS labour rates without feeling embarrassed.
But I GET why people need me to fix their bikes. I understand that some people are not mechanically minded, that they don't have the time or the space or for whatever reason they want me to fix their bike.
I've invested a lot of my own time, and money, to get to where I am now. I don't do substandard work. I don't do unnecessary work. I do what i would do on my own bikes, or I don't do it at all.
And that's what my customers are paying for, (alongside the convenience of not doing it themselves and not having to buy all the tools etc), and I have no problem at all with charging them the going rate for it.
And I think you've got to work on this side of the fence before you fully understand, or, if possible, go through the same transition I did. It's an eye opener, I can assure you. I've fixed stuff you wouldn't believe the state of....
🙂