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I have a mate who buys chains from Temu for like £8 - can't remember if they are KMC or Shimano.
I've pointed out that they are probably fake and his reply is - 'of course they aren't, they are all made in China'
He hasn't died yet
Not used Temu, have used AliExpress for cheap lights etc.
I see it as Amazon for the patient.
The same knock offs, for less money but with a couple of weeks wait rather than next day.
I have a mate who buys chains from Temu for like £8 - can't remember if they are KMC or Shimano.
I've pointed out that they are probably fake and his reply is - 'of course they aren't, they are all made in China'
He hasn't died yet
I got some fake SPD cleats from eBay. They lasted 3 rides before they'd not engage. I reckon they were made in China as are real Shimano ones probably.
Have been very tempted by the AliExpress Avid Shorty Ultimates for my old singlespeed, half the price that they're going for in the UK, and since still charging the full £200 RRP for a set of cantis which haven't changed design in about 15 years feels a bit like taking the piss* I don't feel so bad.
Almost tempted by the rip-off Cane Creek ee-brakes as well just for the weight saving, it's not like I brake very hard on the road bike anyway 😎
* although they are the only brakes bar the TRP CX 8.4 that don't squeak on this bike for some reason 🙄
I very occasionally have a browse through Temu and Ali Express tat. I've bought a Celestron branded mobile phone eye-piece clamp for my telescope that arrived in Celestron branded packaging, looks and works exactly like it should and cost about 40% less than if I'd bought it locally. I've bought Garmin mounts which have so far been brilliant. One of those wee kits for threading internal cables and a pile of medic alert bracelets for a few pounds that have all been great. Those last two items from Temu did catch me out though. As I put them in my basket, a window popped up showing me an item that I'd previously looked at. It was a wheel building jig. I clicked on it to have another look, not realising that what I was doing was automatically adding it to my current purchase. I didn't click on buy or anything. Only discovered I'd bought it when it turned up on my doorstep.
For £29, it's actually a really sturdy, well made bit of kit. Just needs a wee bit of lateral thinking to get it to fit a Boost 29'er. Still niggles that I got caught that way though.
From the other thread about Giant bikes and forced labour - if "reputable" brands have to resort to shady practices, how do you think Temu etc. manage to slash prices even further?? It cannot be due to cheap, forced labour alone.
Thievery, obvs.
...have to resort to shady practices...
"Have to" ? Do they have to?
There's a bit of crowing on this topic and on the other thread, but I can't help thinking everyone with a superior "take" is just playing catch with bricks in a greenhouse.
The point being that pretty much everyone in the West, who buys products of just about any sort is engaging with the output of questionable labour practices. we're having this discussion on the interwebs, the products that enable that are equally as questionable in their origins...
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another, Just because a "reputable" brand's logo is on the side and you paid twice as much, doesn't mean you weren't (unwittingly or otherwise) contributing to some flavour of modern slavery...
Nobody is making "better" choices than anyone else, we're basically all unthinking bastards...
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Camels, eyes of needles, etc, etc...
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another,
Well.. you can? Buy a Starling or Cotic partially or mainly-UK made frame or buy a carbon FS frame equivalent for 25% less from a brand who sub-contracts to somewhere far away. The ethics come into lower likelihood of shadiness and the reward in using your capitalist vote to support brands who are less supportive of the whole consumer product churn thing. Temu and Shein are the pinnacle of the churn. A local frame builder is the sort of option we have at the other end.
Vote with your money or don't care, whatever, but let's not pretend we don't have any choice.
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Some truth in that for sure. The other way to think about it is, why the churn? Why am I looking to save money to enable me to keep spending, why do I want/need a new bike every couple of years? I don't.. I feel that way because I'm bored or need something that consumerism isn't the answer to anyway. I might think I need all this tech that in turn can make a bike less long-term viable or durable but that's just an aspect of the consumerism BS we're sold. It's not us that gain from that.
Buy less often, buy well, buy things that last longer. Ownership cost is lower when it lasts longer. Accept some compromises in what we own perhaps because there's gains elsewhere.
The point being you can't really kid yourself into believing one purchasing choice is substantially more ethical than another
Some purchases (or simply not purchasing at all) are most definitely more ethical, and can also be cheaper (or even free). And then there are the quality and safety issues. To pretend that all purchases are “equal” in terms of ethics is just a cop out (an understandable one).
In terms of the OP, forget about Ti rotor bolts from a dubious source. Stick with steel if you’re money conscious.
Much clutching of pearls, not bought any bike gear but have bought a fair bit of wood working related stuff (guides, rails, router bits, plates) and it has by and large been more than OK.
if "reputable" brands have to resort to shady practices, how do you think Temu etc. manage to slash prices even further?? It cannot be due to cheap, forced labour alone.
By cutting out the middleman? I hate to think how much extra I had to pay the UK middleman for my Basso frameset despite them being a literal impediment in my being able to buy the frame in the first place, they were telling me it didn't exist until I emailed the manufacturer myself 🙄
I can't help feeling like there's a a bit of a Dichotomy here, in order to have the sort of money it would take to consistently make uncompromising ethical purchasing decisions, you probably have to have some ethical gaps in the way you earned that money to begin with.
Or, live in a DINK household.
I’ve met the makers of the last 3 frames I’ve bought, and their families. Feels nicer than giving money to faceless companies.
Mr Pinnacle
Seems he quit. Mr Trek is doing very well.
i bought some no name hydro discs for my commuter from some Chinese site. cant remember which, but they are pretty good. instructions were rubbish and brake levers were wrong way round, but still pretty good for £19 a pair, and after 3 moths of nearly daily use feel confident in using them. Teeth and morals still intact.
Or, live in a DINK household.
Hmmm, even those come at a variety of income points…
Personally I think the trick is just learning to live with the cognitive dissonance of knowing you are not living the most ethical existence, even if you aspire to better. That is the reality of most people’s lives, yes partly driven by purely selfish personal choices, partly by the various influences acting upon us and partly because somethings just aren’t within people’s locus of control and never will be.
I’ve met the makers of the last 3 frames I’ve bought, and their families. Feels nicer than giving money to faceless companies.
Would that we could all shake the hand of everyone that produces our bike frames, look them in the eye, shake their hand, glance over the mill certs and CoCs for the tubing, welding consumables and paint used in the expensive artisanal dandyhorse frame they’re selling us, try their missus’ Shepard’s pie and ruffle their eldest’s hair before magnanimously handing over the cash. And then do the same for every part we bolt to it… But I think we all know the two big S’s are just as fond of far-eastern labour, as are just about everyone producing most other parts.
Sadly throwing money at Stanton and Hope still won’t fully insulate the well heeled you from the evils of the global supply chain, but I guess it’s a reasonable start. I still don’t think it entitles you to sneer at those without the spare disposable income to avoid engaging with those evil “faceless companies”.
Some truth in that for sure. The other way to think about it is, why the churn? Why am I looking to save money to enable me to keep spending, why do I want/need a new bike every couple of years? I don't.. I feel that way because I'm bored or need something that consumerism isn't the answer to anyway. I might think I need all this tech that in turn can make a bike less long-term viable or durable but that's just an aspect of the consumerism BS we're sold. It's not us that gain from that.
Buy less often, buy well, buy things that last longer. Ownership cost is lower when it lasts longer. Accept some compromises in what we own perhaps because there's gains elsewhere.
My ticket is booked for way more exciting reasons than the odd purchase from AliEx.
I am amazed at how fast aliexpress is. I ordered a computer mount (Cycplus Z1). £11 on Amazon. Under £3 on Aliexpress delivered in 6 days.
Not yet, but i might use Aliexpress or Temu soon if I need something like a Nukeproof top guide. It's only a metal plate with holes, a couple of bolts and a pre-formed plastic blob. For £3 it is worth a punt versus what? Thirty odd quid elsewhere?
Came to say the same thing. Everyone is a locally sourcing angel until they are not.hmmm..don't see many posts like that when people mention Amflow/DJI bikes.
Plus, Amazon and AliExpress are where lots of small businesses run their online shops from. Not just China based. But anyway, no-one cares. 😛