Anyone ridden the Mojo Nicolai yet?

Brilliant. They looked at the Geometron and decided to make it longer.

Keep looking at the Geometron frame/fork package as my route to 650b - have a 26" Ion 16 that I love.....slightly worries that the Geometron would rob me of some of the regular bike's versatility. But it interests me more than pretty much any other frame out there right now... probably come down to a decision between the Geometron and standard Ion 16 27.5 in the end (when I eventually have the money.... always the fatal flaw)

Chainline - This setup allows you to set the bike up for either the alps or uplifted trips but then easily return it to being a normal everyday trail bike.

I'm a big fan of this bike but cant help feeling that its all a bit Bugatti Vayron when all a lot of us really need is a pimped out Vauxhall Corsa.

I've only taken the Geometron for a spin round a dark carpark but I'm not sure it could ever be called a "normal everyday trail bike" despite being normal than people think.

As mentioned above, as much as I like it, its well out of my price / skill range so I'm continuing my experiments with a long(ish) 130mm rear 65 HA 29er.

I get the same impression the podge, it seems to be designed to be ridden really fast and hard, and I wonder if for the average ( or sub average in my case!) MTBer it wouldn't be ridden at the level were its advantages would come to the forefront.

I can only say thePodge/Wookseter that your concern is not echoed by most users. Many of whom have ditched their second bike to just use the GeoMetron as an all rounder. It truly is, in my opinion of course. Most of the Demo's I have done have been on mixed terrain like at Cannock chase to demonstrate that point as the majority of people don't want as single purpose bike.

It's advantages come to the forefront whatever level you are. A point noted by one chap the other day I was riding with who said it was a bike that would really flatter a lesser rider as well as allow a fast rider to go faster. Basically it's incredibly forgiving at the limit, who's ever limit that is.

I am anything but a fast/good rider I assure you, but I like to push my limit without thinking that If I go too far I'll get bitten.

One thing thepodge is that a carpark test definitely doesn't do it justice for feel, the dynamic ride is very important.

Overall it just so happens that you can ride it really hard and fast if you are that kind of rider but I don't think it feels dead at slower speeds. Everyone is different though, hence the need to test it,

The standard bike is lively and playful and I feel pretty neutral handling.The head angle is much more for the feel of the steering and cornering not for stability, which I think many get hung up on.

The modified bike I rode, yes, its definitely for bigger stuff. The longer swingarm also makes it feel slightly different, but I'm confident when we put the short shock back in (Chris was riding a bike like this over the winter) it returns to feeling like the std bike.

Honorablegeorge, the 'they' was me....I asked for it, with a view to a dual purpose bike. I'm not getting any younger and do like to get out to the alps and places like that. A week of trail bashing is a little easier with a bit more travel...but I did not want to be restricted to that. So we talked about how we could get both worlds with minimum work in the same bike. The answer is a slightly longer swingarm (5mm) to allow the longer shock length, longer travel, but maintain all of the same geometry e.g. BB height, HA/SA etc.

I suspect, given the way things have progressed over the last year that there won't be a standard Ion in the future unless you order it especially; after riding the GeoMetron, all of the staff are riding various incarnations of other bikes, with different travel etc but using GeoMetron geometry principles...and I think the vast majority of sales have switched to the Geometron incarnation....

It's also possible to just buy the additional swingarm and swop between longer version and standard version. It isn't a hugely difficult job, but I think Mojo will also offer it as a service. It's a lot cheaper than having a spare downhill bike!

95% of my year I'll be using the standard bike (all be it with a slacker HA as I like how it corners/steers)

Popped into Mojo lunctime to get some bushes, spotted this in reception, so ****ing cool.

[img] [/img]| http://thumbsnap.com/YygsKqpo [/img]

Chainline - Member

Honorablegeorge, the 'they' was me....I asked for it, with a view to a dual purpose bike. I'm not getting any younger and do like to get out to the alps and places like that. A week of trail bashing is a little easier with a bit more travel...but I did not want to be restricted to that. So we talked about how we could get both worlds with minimum work in the same bike. The answer is a slightly longer swingarm (5mm) to allow the longer shock length, longer travel, but maintain all of the same geometry e.g. BB height, HA/SA etc.

I suspect, given the way things have progressed over the last year that there won't be a standard Ion in the future unless you order it especially; after riding the GeoMetron, all of the staff are riding various incarnations of other bikes, with different travel etc but using GeoMetron geometry principles...and I think the vast majority of sales have switched to the Geometron incarnation..

Cool... just the idea of someone taking such a long bike and askign for it to be made longer tickled me.

Yeah - if I do take the plunge, it'll be a case of phonign Mojo and getting their recommendations on sizing, and having a fork and frame/shock sent to me - not in the UK, so demo not really practical, and I'm unlikely to get much for my 26" Ion frame/forks/wheels, so it'll be an expensive upgrade.... I've always gone the trigger's broom route in the past, bit by bit as opposed to the big hit all at once.

What you say is encouraging though - so many folks liking the bike makes me less wary of just going for it.

[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/jack-readings-nicolai-geometron-dh-lourdes-dh-world-cup-2016.html ]Nicolai Geometron DH - Lourdes World Cup bike check[/url]

Absolutely awesome!!!

I've had a geometron since early december, in longest.
I'am 6'2 with orangutan arms so I've been told.
Its set up with the 180 fork and x2. did the deal with the mavic xl wheels as well. Its the first new bit of kit in 13 years I've splashed out on, normally second hand buying all the way.

I bloody love this bike, I can quite happily go out and do a gentle flowy xc ride with the girlfriend. But then go and ride a trail center ie afan, FOD, Brecfa. the bike climbs like a bloody goat, it is the oddest sensation when your going up hill and the bike just cruises up slippy muddy rooty tracks. Its certainly a bike you winch your way up. No problems with this talk of being to long to get round corners etc. The other week i rode the trails at FOD, then put the full face on and did the uplift in the afternoon. Then the following week went and rode at revolution bike park with a DH team, scared the crap out of me. I couldn't have asked for a different bike. Adjust a few settings on the shock and fork, away you go.

To be honest the bike makes you feel more confident, so hence I'm riding alot faster and smoother than I ever have. crashing more as well.

Also have to say I'm your average joe rider, full time job ride at the weekends when I can. Certainly not the best rider in my group of friends. Massively happy with the bike at the moment. But one of the main buying points was the backup from chris/mojo. They cant do enough to help, if thats before buying the bike or any small questions about setup after.

Love the idea that as chainline is doing you can play about with head angle, wheelbase in the future and not have to buy a new bike/frame.

Set it up for what ever riding you are doing and it will excel at any.

Nice summary Paul, nail on head for me.

This isn't helping. I'm at the "maybe if I sell the DH bike" stage right now. And I can do a cycle-to-work for the wheels and other bits. Meaning I only need to find about two grand.

There is one in the classifieds at a reduced price

Yeah, it's a "long" though, which is only about three feet longer than my current bike - I think for 6'1" I'd need "longer" for full effect. 🙂

honourablegeorge mail me, email in profile...and you will want Longest at 6'1"...I may be able to help you...

Thanks CL, reply sent.

*stares in awe at 520 reach*

I have a custom geometron that is a longest with a lower top tube and custom colours/decals. I am 6' and it feels spot on so at 6'1 definitely longest.

I would agree the geometron excels when ridden on the limit but that's a bit of a polarity because when on the limit it still feels totally stable and in control. However it's also a bike I can jump on for a spin too on those not so pinned days. It really does feel like a normal long slack bike to me but it's wierd how well it climbs which makes no sense on paper.

I am Lakes based and mainly ride big mountain days for which the geometron seems ideal.

Glad you're still liking it duir

Nailed the setup on this now after some testing, absolutely loving it, so much confidence, pedalling a treat, feels lively and you can just push the front so hard without fear. Most surprising is how you can attack steep tight stuff.

[url=[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1444/25953993113_c5e614310b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1444/25953993113_c5e614310b_b.jp g"/> [/img]

Modified Mojo Nicolai GeoMetron Longest

That looks ace, CL

I owe you some measurements too, will get those this weekend, had a bloody mental week.

Chainline, what are the crucial numbers then?

It has a lower TT/ST than previously. The revised Longer frame has a 450mm ST, the Longest a 470mm and a new XL model 490mm, the same as the previous Longest. The Long is unchanged.

This bike has a 450mm swingarm, to allow for a 222 x 70 shock. This allows me to run 175mm of travel at the rear with a nice curve.

the rear shock is tuned to replicate the feel of the 155mm bike in terms of pedalling and pop. It has been very successful and we can set it up easily to feel more like a DH rear or like the standard bike with much more pop and a livelier feel.

The fork is tuned to match the rear.

The swingarm allows this change without any changes to the overall geometry or BB height.

This bike is -1deg compared to standard

I am loving it, fantastic grip and confidence, turn is great, even on the brakes, the suspension matches superbly it's just there and does its job.

Oh chainline, why did you have to post this!!

I've been wondering about a longer swingarm and a bit more slacker head angle after swinging a leg over the geometron DH bike.

The option is there Paul J. You can order a frame set up like this.

There are various options to set the front up with different trail/HA combinations which change the feel.

I love the longer swingarm...

Geeky fact which may or may not be of interest, but if you draw a line through the pivot on the downtube and pivot between that link and the seatstay pivot by the shock, and then another line through the pivots at either end of the chainstay, the point where those two lines intersect is the virtual pivot point aka instant centre.

If you then draw a line between the rear tyre contact patch and the virtual pivot point, the steeper the angle of that line (vs the horizontal), the greater the brake anti-rise. The greater the brake anti-rise, the more the rear suspension stiffens when braking (but the less the bike rocks forwards under braking, so zero anti-rise isn't necessarily ideal).

So a longer chainstay will give you more braking grip (as well that the other effects).

I had to read that about 3 times 😉

It's easier with a picture. 😉

Skip to the 1 minute mark on this.

That's why single pivot bikes always have less active suspension under braking and also why short link four bar bikes (VPP, DW, KS, Maestro, Zero etc) tend to be more like single pivots than four bar in their braking behaviour.

Linkage blogspot did a good analysis of the geometron characteristics recently. The std bike not this incarnation, but this I would expect since it was designed by someone with a very specific goal in mind in relation to the shock used, rather than compromising across shocks.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/nicolai-geometron-2016.html?m=1

This bloody thread just will not go away. I've just been sitting on the hardtail in the garage bemoaning my rigid rear end and wishing I could ride like a monster truck again.

And then this appears,
[img] [/img]

sharkattack. Oh this can indeed be ridden like a precision monster truck 😆

This is a good article on Mojo and the development of the GeoMetron, pretty interesting website too.

http://radventure.cc/mojo-nicolai-geometron/

Is this just an advert/marketing thread now?

Is this just an advert/marketing thread now?

I suppose it is mainly of interest to people who own one, or are considering buying one, with the occasional person just objecting to the whole thing.

Wrecker, No, I hope its a source of advice. I have been involved with some of the development aspects of the bike, ride both the GPI and standard versions, am and will continue to test new combinations of angles/setup and providing feedback to both Mojo and Nicolai on peoples experience.

It is a thread about this bike, it's history and future I hope. As such articles written about that are hopefully of interest.

I have found it very interesting and informative. Not my cup of tea but I can still appreciate designs which are actually pushing something different and using real world feedback to develop a product even though a lot of people think it's pretty out there.

It's a great thread. I'm looking forward to more pics of the most extreme trail bike available atop Lower Cliff 😛

Scruff, I can probably provide that. it's still a close by trail centre I can take my girls to an ride with them that stands up to weather. I also know it quite well so it's a good benchmark for testing, although I use FoD and Staunton for that a lot lately as you can get quite a lot of varied gnarr in for a short if steep pedal back up the hill and the surfaces are mostly natural.

[i]This is a good article on Mojo and the development of the GeoMetron, pretty interesting website too.
http://radventure.cc/mojo-nicolai-geometron/ [/i]

Cheers Phil, we're pleased with how it's turned out

Good review from Seb, sums up most owners views I think. I have a few things I'd add but nothing new there

Finally frame ordered 🙂

Finally frame ordered 😀

Pics when you've built it jes. look forward to your feedback

Will do 🙂

Frame has arrived, that was quick 🙂

Hopefully picking up wheels today, shock purchased a while back, bit stuck on forks as was looking at the revel but its still not out yet.

Decisions...... decisions <:o)

You bought frame only. Jez, I didn't think Chris was doing that. Interesting.

I had been waiting a few weeks for a quote from LBS who were dealing with mojo, chased and still haven't heard anything 😕 LBS issue I suspect as they are bit eratic.
Grew impatient so went with the ION GPI version direct from Nicolai in the end, they had a few frames with 15% off, delivered in 3 days.
See if I can tell any difference in the ride once built to the one I tested a FoD.
The primary driver for the purchase though is pinion gearbox, and it was a added benefit that the ride felt very similiar to my Intense SS1 which has quite a steep seatube angle.

Not sure how much the ION version differs to mojo incarnation?

Hope that clears things up 🙂

I got the impression that mojo dealt direct not through lbs and in one of the interviews they do mention that buying the frame from nicolai direct does defeat the object but I'm sure even at 75% of the package it'll still be awesome

Ion version is exactly the same as Nicolai version. The main change is the use of the 180mm fork but a high A2C fork/spacer or angleset can deliver the same angles. My GPI is a Nicolai (There isn't a Mojo version) is just running a 180mm fork and -1 angleset. The 180 runs at 570 A2c.

The std angles (63.5deg in low) are with a 559mm a2c 170mm fork.

It is possible to go through LBS now. LBS can contact Mojo and discuss becoming a dealer. Leisure Lakes have done this and now provide a build and demo's too.

I am still doing demo's if desired and not squillions of miles away, although even those too if its a good riding spot 😆

My bike is available to demo or I can get hold of a demo of the other sizes/setups via Chris.

My bike set up is currently 180mm front /175mm rear (222 x 70mm shock, 450mm swingarm), 61 HA, 77 SA, 1345mm WB, 526mm reach and 656mm ETT with a 30mm stem.

This is currently on the Leisure Lakes site. It looks obscenely nice.

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Nearly a geometron and designed by Phil aka chainline

Playing in the backyard today...

[URL= http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/kbrembo/IMG_9870_zpsqrmkwwq6.jp g" target="_blank">http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/kbrembo/IMG_9870_zpsqrmkwwq6.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

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And a few weeks ago in Torridon

[URL= http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/kbrembo/1-IMG_5447_zpsc3b7bcmr.jp g" target="_blank">http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/kbrembo/1-IMG_5447_zpsc3b7bcmr.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Interesting Kbrembo - how is it with the Boss rather than Fox suspension?

That blue looks really nice

I spent a lot of hours agonising over that colour combo. And its lovely wth BOS too. Geometry is very close to GeoMetron.

Chainline,
What is the best source for gates belts for ION GPI? I do not how but I snapped one on my bike.

Those geometry numbers on your new monster truck look very familiar chainline!
[img][URL= http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j406/oharadarren/image_zpszawuusl7.jpe g" target="_blank">http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j406/oharadarren/image_zpszawuusl7.jpe g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

SImilar duir, slacker and longer travel at the back, longer swingarm.

Opinions below based on 30km of riding by an unrepentant hardtail rider

I rode Chainline's Nicolai Geometron Pinion bike last night for a couple of hours.

The bike overall is amazing.
The rear suspension feels amazingly supple probably due to the very low unsprung weight.
I rode the Longer bike and it felt "normal" and would like to try the Longest bike.
The amount of front wheel (and overall grip) is freaky.
Cornering is something else, so planted!
It climbs surprisingly well for a 34(ish) pound bike. (that about right Phil?)

I wasn't super stoked on the gearbox for the following reasons (in no particular order):
1) Drag, it does feel a little draggy.
2) Shifter, it's not as good as a trigger shifter but it's not that much of an issue. You may feel differently.
3) You have to back off a lot in terms of pedal pressure to get it to shift. That was annoying.
4) There was a lot of lag as they gearing engaged, this was the big one for me. Apparently the bike I rode had a king rear hub, you can use a fixed rear hub that helps fix this issue.
5) Q factor, its wider. You might not care, it felt slightly odd to me, but I would get used to it I'm sure.

I'm wondering if I can sell a child or kidney to be able to afford one...(but with a normal drivetrain...)

you can use a fixed rear hub that helps fix this issue

I don't think Pinion like you doing that and a chain that doesn't stop when you stop pedaling may be a bit of a safety concern. I'd love to try a gearbox just so I knew what it was like, the idea seems such a good one...

Edit: or a belt rather than chain

Thanks BillOddie, I'm sure you can have a spin on the normal one when I've got the new one built up 😆

and yes its about 34.5lbs now I have tyres on it that don't self destruct at the sight of trail!

Man, that raw one above is lovely.

Hypothetically speaking, since you can order a Geometron inspired ION frame direct from Nicolai, could you also do that with the Helius TB 29er?

thepodge You could do that yes. There is also the GeoMetron 29er, potentially another version of that in the works..

Depending on timescale you might want to keep an eye on the std Nicolai range for 2017/Eurobike regarding the basis of geometry for all models...

But yes you could custom a TB29. Important to note that whist you would get the geometry, you wouldn't get a suspension curve set up to optimise pedalling/descending with a specific shock and shocks configured to balance each other and the bike in where they begin to provide support etc...an oft overlooked part of how this bike works.

However thats not to say that it will be the case should Nicolai move to this basic geometry across the range.

The 29 version of the GeoMetron does have a curve/setup to suit.

Thanks for the info.

I love the whole concept and execution of the Geometron but still think even in 29er mode that its too much bike for me and unfortunately its more money than I can justify. Translating some of the geometry across to a TB29 gives me a more trail orientated package and not having the suspension setup and other benefits reduces costs.

Having messed with my current suspension set up and found it lacking I think for me a dedicated suspension setup would be hugely beneficial but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

Part of that process thepodge is to help you find what you are looking for. You don't have to know in suspension terms but merely try different setups from someone who knows.

Mojo do that (maybe others do too) as a stand alone option.I don't know if thats the case for non fox stuff. You running Fox?

There is a shorter travel 29er in the works....

There is a shorter travel 29er in the works....

I asked about that recently and was told there was something on the way.

Just checked, two weeks til eurobike.

There is a shorter travel 29er in the works....

[img] [/img]

haha. Eurobike is end of August.

Short travel 29 is a Mojo project but may find it's way to Nicolai too.

There will be much testing, normalisation and benchmarking first to decide if it's 'better' than others.

Referring to thepodge's comment about too much bike, we debate this a lot, what is too much bike? If it pedals, feels lively, handles and delivers on all fronts for a similar weight to 'less bike' which is often the case now, is there a reason to choose less?

We have got my 180mm/175mm version to feel like the 155 version now, its the same weight. Do I always need it on my local, fairly flat, 30-40km xc singletrack ride with BillOddie, no. Does it handle awesomes and give me a huge grin, yes. Do I feel handicapped or extra tired compared to my rigid Jones, which in some ways would be conventionally considered more terrain and ride distance/vertical appropriate, no, not at all, they can both be fun, in many ways the 180mm bike is funner even on that stuff!

I guess its a bit like saying an M5 or M3 is too much car compared to the std model. I think you just get a precision instrument that works well within it's capabilities and if you want to go crazy you can.

Do I always need it on my local, fairly flat, 30-40km xc singletrack ride with BillOddie, no.

Are the Mojo 29ers anything to do with Chris's day at bike park wales where they faffed around with the various wheel sizes?

Either way, the mojo 29ers sound very interesting, both short and normal travel albeit I think I'd more likely be in the short camp. Are we talking this year or next?

Hummm, lots to think about there.

I'd be interested in a Mojo tuning session, I'll have to look it up on their site and see what it involves as everything I have will be at least 3 years old.

I'd be interested to know more about the shorter travel 29er, though slightly surprised its a Mojo development as Porter seems so against them. Still if he can sell them then why not?

As for the too much bike thing, I can see your point and I cant think of a logical reason right now why shorter should be better for me but it just feels wrong.

Gotama - Are the Mojo 29ers anything to do with Chris's day at bike park wales where they faffed around with the various wheel sizes?

Chris is still very much open minded. Right now he hasn't found the perfect set up with them but tecognises others prefer them. Not everyone lives and dies by the stop watch..

The long travel 155/160mm version is available now, to Order and test ride but only in the Longest size so if you believe what I ride at 5'10" (Longest) that size up, realistically though I think 6 footers for most people.
All dimensions are as per my bike so slightly longer chainstays but front fork is 160mm not 180mm.

The short travel one is likely towards end of year I guess.

Neither were anything to do with the wheel size thing at BPW. Chris was still finding time with Suspension tune but recognised that on certain tracks a 29er front wheel could be beneficial, less so the rear. So he has begin testing with a 29 front with various two tweaks to see if his 'feeling' translates into speed.

There is a mint, Ti anodised Long size GeoMetron frame, fork and shock available at Mojo ex demo at a very good price if anyone interested.
Msg me for details or call Chris at Mojo.

new trail bike :wink:. 32.3 lbs. Got a few mods to make to get it to 31.5lbs, wheels, bars, pedals to change..

its very slack indeed, quite long, but not very low, a British standard 340mm in fact. 180mm front/175mm rear. set up to pedal well and only give up the rear travel on really big hits.

[url= https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7578/28186508471_e4a3a7f15e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7578/28186508471_e4a3a7f15e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/JWKdXZ ]IMG_0043[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/ ]Phil[/url], on Flickr

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[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7334/28230541866_b105fff688_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7334/28230541866_b105fff688_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/K1CUys ]IMG_0044[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/ ]Phil[/url], on Flickr

Chris is still very much open minded. Right now he hasn't found the perfect set up with them but tecognises others prefer them. Not everyone lives and dies by the stop watch.

...

Neither were anything to do with the wheel size thing at BPW. Chris was still finding time with Suspension tune but recognised that on certain tracks a 29er front wheel could be beneficial, less so the rear. So he has begin testing with a 29 front with various two tweaks to see if his 'feeling' translates into speed.

Its funny though, because almost everyone in the vid found a fair chunk of extra time on the 29er, even those who didn't like them. And given the entire point of the initial development of the geo was to get to the bottom of the hill faster (his words is print when it first came out), its funny to see he is still dragging his heels 😆

Chainline, your breaking my heart! Ive go the longest geometron, and been riding with the one vision team. This makes me want to play about with that swing arm and the shock. considering how well the x2 works I can only see upping it to 175mm is a good thing!
Just when I thought the bank balance was safe.
I may have to give chris a call about the swing arm.

@chainline that is a sick puppy. I like.

Paul j - Member
Chainline, your breaking my heart

That's what he does. Tempts people. 🙂

That looks like an absolute steam roller of a bike!! 😆

32lbs?!

I need to figure out where the weight is in mine.

What wheels are you thinking about putting on?

One of those and one of the allegedly/rumoured/unconfirmed trail bikes would be a great combination.

Where is the short travel 29er? That said I like the idea of rear travel that only makes an appearance on really big hits albeit I would look a fool mincing round my local trails on that ^^^