63/64 is as slack as slack as I see fit for UK riding
Which part of the UK are you talking about? I use mine as an all day bike for massive rides in the Lakes and Scotland and I find the slack head angle never hinders up or down, it just feels like a normal bike.
I strongly advise you to demo one because it simply can't be assessed accurately on paper or visually.
I would be very cautious if going custom as the Geometron works because of the sum of all the angles together.
Looking at 4'9"/145cm up to about 5'5"/ 165cm. Super low ST/Stanadover for 125/150mm dropper posts, no compromises on rear travel or suspension. Plenty of Flexibility/adjustment - wheelsize/front fork spec/travel and to an extent reach,Headlines
145mm-160mm rear travel,
160mm to 180mm front travel
350mm ST
668mm standover (27.5 wheels/2..35 tyres) lower with 26" or 26/27.5
Now that sounds intriguing, I'd love to know more.
Now that sounds intriguing, I'd love to know more
Me too. My wife is 5" and is riding an 11 year old Titus Racer-X in XXsmall, but she has decided that she wants a new bike.
Druin I am disappointed to be honest. The Dune is going to be a fantastic bike but I had my heart set on a geometron tbh! Ah life. I just can't wait as getting some coaching etc for the new season. The Dune is incredibly beautiful to look at though!
I've repeatedly considered a Spitfire Chief. They just need to offer custom reaches and I'd go for one - I'm built odd - 6 foot but most of it's in my legs, so whilst I like a long bike - my taste would be towards size small Nicolai Geometron but with a long head tube and an 18/19 inch seattube.... because of my build and the fact that I prefer a more upright, chest out moto position on a bike - too streched out does my **** neck in on long descents and encourages me to look at my wheels instead of entry/exit points/down the track. A 475mm reach combined with a 25mm P-Dent stem would be a perfect fit for me and my style of riding.
Have you looked at the 2017 geometry - they've shortened the seat tubes, so the XL is only 19.3". I know I could run a 170mm dropper with room to spare on the 2017 L and I'm a couple of inches shorter than you. The head tubes are short but in practice that just means you have to use higher bars and more spacers and deduct a bit off the reach compared to a bike with a taller head tube and the same reach figure on the chart.
With most bars the grips end up in line with the steerer tube with a 35mm stem so I don't see much benefit to going shorter (unless you're rolling the bars forward because you prefer the angles), as a negative effective stem length makes the bike more nervous as you hit things that cause a deceleration (due to the rider weighing more than the bike).
I have one bike with ~450mm reach and 5mm effective stem length (35mm actual) and another bike with ~430mm reach and 15mm effective stem length (50mm actual). I too am longer legged than most and prefer a more upright body position (my hardtail with ~450mm reach used to have ~465mm reach and a 50mm actual stem and it was too long for me).
I've been amazed at how a 64 deg head angle can work on flatter twistier slower trails - it was unsurprisingly awesome on fast gnarr too. I don't think bushing bind is likely to be an issue when you consider the direction of the forces initiating most suspension movement (if there is any binding it could reduce pedal and pump bob whilst being active from impacts). The problem I do see from ever slackening head angles relates to loading the tyres evenly in tight quick turns, especially with trees getting in the way, on trails where longer chainstays start to push the wheelbase to impractical lengths.
Have an interesting project on the go at the moment for a proper kids/youngster/smaller person bike, well specced and built light (fit for purpose) but fully featured and capable with no compromises.Looking at 4'9"/145cm up to about 5'5"/ 165cm. Super low ST/Stanadover for 125/150mm dropper posts, no compromises on rear travel or suspension. Plenty of Flexibility/adjustment - wheelsize/front fork spec/travel and to an extent reach,
Headlines
145mm-160mm rear travel,
160mm to 180mm front travel
350mm ST
668mm standover (27.5 wheels/2..35 tyres) lower with 26" or 26/27.5Trail to DH use.
Chainline, you've definately earned yourself some cash there in the medium term future as the missus is 5 foot 1/2 or whatever. 668mm standover on such a long travel bike is pretty nuts! I'm pretty impressed by the level of commitment being shown to varied riders/builds.
I'll put the geo up. I need to mod the drawing slightly for public use!
It will only be possible to run a non-piggy back shock. We've discussed it and given the nature of the riders in terms of likely weights can't see a piggy back being necessary. using a piggy back would add 25mm to standover.
I'd have thought with the latest shocks from Fox it wouldn't be needed anyway. Looking forward to the drawings.
Chris doesn't think it needs it.
Current drawing for the Not-So-Long.couple of tweaks to do with features but pretty much good to go.
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2746/32537040340_99dcc1fd02_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2746/32537040340_99dcc1fd02_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/RzbQw9 ]Mojo G16 notsolong[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pilot/ ]Phil[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Bookmarked
G13 is looking really appealing. Does anyone (ahem, Chainline) know if the 2016 are boost or 142 dropouts? And are they swappable like Banshees? And lastly are there any differences between mojo and nicolai G13s as per the G16s? Lot of info on this thread to wade through!
Chainline, is there any plans for an intermediate size between the new xs above, and standard "long"? It would be interesting to have something with eg 38/39 seat tube to allow piggyback shock and also allow a suitable dropper post to be raised to the appropriate height...
I was lucky enough to have a little test ride on Multispeedstu's geometron yesterday at bike park wales
After riding my transition bandit 29er all day quite happily I could not believe how stable and planted the geometron felt, making my bike feel quite twitchy in comparison.
the fork sucked up everything , The rear shock was super plush.
i didnt notice the extra weight , smaller wheels or anything negative about such a long wheelbase on the trail when pointing down. it did feel quite a beast on the flat trying to keep up with my over enthusiastic riding partner but I could live with that for the benefits when going downhill.
Chainline. do you know if its possible to test ride a g13 side by side with the g16 for comparison
?
@davosaurusrex the 2016 G13's are boost. As far as i know you can't run different dropouts as the brake side had no changeable part. It's only the drive side that bolts on as it's also the mech hanger.
Cheers RR. I had a spin up and down the lane on Gotama's G13 today. Bloody massive. Industrial. Not light. Far too much bike for my local trails. Just awesome, the frame is a proper work of art and the fit is superb. And Surrey trails aren't so far if I get up there a bit more often....
Need to catch up with Gotama in the next few weeks with a bit of luck and have a proper go, can't wait to point one down some of the steep trails we rode today. Also need to wait for an ex demo extra long to become available and hope my slightly battered stumpjumper keeps going a bit longer.
I think 463mm would be a tad to long for someone around 5 foot 1ish. My missus looks too streched out with a 400mm and an 80mm stem as it is. I think 435 to 445 plus a 30mm stem would be about perfect - I'd be a bit worried that was too long tbh.
463 is the same reach as my XL stumpy! I think the steep seat tube angle offsets it a bit on the geometron though, at least whilst seated
Tom_w1987, I think the Geomatrons run with a much shorter stem though 30mm?
sofaking.
Just emailed you with chainline and Mojo Pauls email addy.
Both of them will help you out with any questions.
Tom_w1987, I think the Geomatrons run with a much shorter stem though 30mm?
She could do with about an inch less reach, so 425mm to 435mm with a 30mm stem would be ideal.
You have to try them, the reach numbers mean nothing in comparison to other brands. Throw in the very short stem and steep seat angle and you get a very normal feeling seated or standing riding position to what you would imagine.
Aaargh, standards! Help me out here please - the G13 has boost spacing but a 73mm BB shell. From reading another post on here does this mean that you have to run a spacer on the drive side to correct the chainline and a boost crankset is still required to account for this? And is a spacer required on the non-driveside for chainstay/heel clearance?
My daughter has been riding her Five Diva Long since she was 11 and 4'9". With 720mm bars and 35mm stem. A Nicolai of the same length but with a shorter ST since she was 9 and shorter than that in height.
She is now 5'1" and prefers the bars rolled forward and the saddle back 10mm, it's running a -2angleset.
She knows no different and isn't coloured by numbers on a drawing. People talk about how huge they are and then ride them and wonder what the fuss was about, but that has been said many times on here. The most common reaction is "that feels pretty normal" then when they get back on their own bike, "ooh, that feels weird" I think it is much to do with how open minded you are and the confidence bias of existing geometry through seeing everyone else do the same thing on paper.
Duir is right on that front, and almost all bikes are designed for 50-70mm stem, still. 30-35mm is a GeoMetron stem.
The differences here are often 5cm, the length of your pinkie finger! Same with WB...
We shall see, but when I see her descend and corner I see her looking high and cramped.
Lots of people 5'7" and under riding GeoMetron Long/S and loving it, they feel safe, its forgiving, low and planted, that's not just a BB height it's an overall centre of gravity, the person has the single biggest effect on that on a bike.
I ride a bike that dwarfs an XL from any other brand bar Pole and I'm 178cm on a good day.
I'm very confident this bike isn't too long in reach or ETT for the size It will be pitched at.
We shall see though. My daughter, some small peeps and kids will get to rip around on it...
Will she get on it and go "oh no dad, it's too slack, how will I get it through technical terrain, will it climb" No, she will do what she always does, say "cool, hanks Dad" and ride it without thinking about it
I got on my mate's brand new large Dune (490 reach I think) straight after spinning around on Gotama's G13 and it felt far too small!
Dave... The shimano chainset on my bike is non-boost and works perfectly. I have a 32t Absolute black oval on there fwiw. Bottom bracket spacers are set up as per shimano instructions for a 73mm shell ie nothing odd with respect to spacers. And I am pretty certain Toby runs a non-boost hope chainset on his G13.
Nice one, thanks Steve. And thanks again for yesterday, will try to get another Surrey pass sooner rather than later. We rode a load of the steep off-camber trails directly off the side of the Pitch viewpoint, bet your bike is awesome down there!
No worries. Those trails are great fun and the bike does ride really well down them. Let me know, away for a week from 11th March but generally around at weekends other than that. Can always do back to back runs so you can get a direct comparison between the G13 and your Stumpy.
Sofa king, apologies, forgot to answer, yes it's possible to test both side by side, Get in touch with Mojo and I'm siren Toby will sort you out. If he can't let me know, I might be able to help as i have both in Longest/L size. It's easy to set them up as either a M or L cockpit/reach setup.
Thanks for responding chainline. i understand people have lives outside of forums and bikes 😉
Hi Guys,
I received my 2017 G16 Longest as expected on Friday February 3rd. It only took three days to get to Arizona. The shipping was rather expensive at 170 GBP (212 USD), but it did include comprehensive packaging (miles of tape and bubble wrap) and "overnight" shipping. Everything arrived in perfect condition.
The following shipping info is for potential US customers.
On Tuesday it flew from the UK to NY via TNT carrier. It was then put on hold for customs clearance. TNT required my Social Security Number for some reason. The customs fee was only $60, which I paid to TNT. The frame was quickly released by customs, and TNT transferred it to the next carrier. Unfortunately, TNT did not automatically provide a tracking number for FedEx, but I got this information from FedEx and I was able to stop the package from going out on the truck Friday morning. I did this so I would not have to sit around all day waiting for the FedEx truck. They might have left it at the front door, where anyone could come along and steal it. It was a simple matter of driving down to the local FedEx office and picking up the package after 9am.
Assembly:
The day I received it, I got a stainless wire brush and Scotch Brite pad and cleaned up the oxidation around the welds.
Next, I fitted the RWC BB cups which come with a coating of Loctite on the threads. The left side cup with right hand threads fit just fine, but the right side cup with left hand threads was super tight. It took more torque to thread it in than the recommended tightening torque of 40 Nm. I suppose either the threads on the BB shell or the threads on the cup were a little too tight.
Before ordering the frame, I had concerns about achieving the desired chain line, especially with a direct mount chain ring.
To give me the most flexibility, I used a RaceFace 83mm crankset with their removable spider. I'm glad I did. With this combination, the middle chain ring position lines up with the second smallest cog, which is far from ideal in my opinion. It seems intuitive to me that you would want the chain ring to line up with the middle of the cassette.
When I assembled the crank set, I used the spindle spacers to center the crank arms, so they are the same distance from the down tube.
Then, I used 4mm spacers on the inner chain ring position, which lined up the chain ring within 1mm of the middle rear cog on the cassette.
With this alignment, the chain ring just clears the yoke by about 1mm. If I want to bring the chain ring in any more, or use a bigger chain ring, I would have to machine some clearance into the side of the yoke.
The problem with the inner chain ring is the selection of sizes is very limited, with only 28T or 30T in oval rings. I have designed a simple adapter to go from the 64BCD of the inner position to 94BCD (SRAM), which will allow the use of Absolute Black oval chain rings in 30T-32T-34T.
In order to use the middle chain ring position, I would need a special adapter, 12-13mm wide, which I can make, but I will not do that unless there is no better option.
With the chain ring where I want it, there is no room to mount the chain guide. I will try riding without it, but if it becomes necessary, I can machine a few mm off of the mounts to make it work.
The rear brake post mount is for 180mm rotors. I am using a 203mm rotor, so I made a custom spacer to raise up the caliper.
My next post will include fitment results and riding impressions.
Cheers,
Scott
Glad it arrived safe and someone did a good job of the packing 😉
Did you have all the other parts ready to build it straight away? Will be interested to see what you think as I am assuming you didn't come to Wales for a testride.
It took about 4 months from the time of order to delivery, so yes, I had every part collecting dust, awaiting the arrival of the frame.
No, I did not take a test ride. It was the wrong time of the year and I couldn't justify the expense unless it was combined with a vacation.
I had never seen a Nicolai in person. I made my purchasing decision based on photos, specifications and my conversations with Nicolai and Mojo.
After completing assembly on my 2017 G16 Longest, I rolled it out of the workshop for a test ride. My first impression was "oh no, what have I done", but I didn't panic. The slack front end with the front wheel way out there was peculiar to say the least. I rode it around the house to get a feel for it, and after a few minutes I was comfortable enough that I was not concerned about hitting the trails.
My first trail ride was an 18 mile desert loop, which I would rate as novice level terrain. The biggest problem I had was the many pedal strikes, due to the much lower BB compared to my old bike. I have been averaging 6 or more pedal strikes per ride, but I suspect this number will go down as I train my brain to avoid the strikes.
The other odd thing is the 800mm bars. I think I can get used to the width over time. If not, I can cut them down a bit.
It was easy to get accustomed to how the bike handles. I knew the slack front end would provide more stability, and it does. There are almost no corrections made while cornering, compared to the older style steep front ends with long stems. Turning and wheelbase are the biggest concerns that many have about the slack rake angle, especially hair pin turns or switchbacks. This bike turns better than my old bike and tight turns have not been a problem at all. After several rides now, I have not found a single situation where I thought the rake angle caused any difficulties while riding. The slackness is all positive for me.
This bike also climbs extremely well. With the long swing arm (chain stay), oval chain ring and new Magic Mary tire, it climbs much better than my old bike.
I like how it handles while standing, either coasting or pedaling.
It climbs great while seated or standing.
After several rides now, I can say that this bike is a good to excellent trail bike, although somewhat over qualified for average trails. It really shines on the fast trails. The faster you go the better it handles. I can't wait to take it to the bike parks next summer.
At 183cm tall, the Longest fit is quite good for me. I have my seat moved back about 10mm from the neutral position, and my bars are high rise with 40mm of stem spacers. Because of this I believe I would also be comfortable with the Extra Longest.
Happy trails,
Scott
Sounds like a lot of faff to get the chainline sorted.
Any Pics Scott? I thought the Bike was a specific 1X set up, did you get a mech hanger brazen on by Nicolai?
It's odd you are having such a hassle with chainline. On my longest I fitted XTR cranks with one spacer as standard, an 11 speed cassette and it works flawlessly, even back pedalling in the lowest gear does not drop the chain. I would not be too concerned with where the chain appears to be relative to the cranks and cassette and just go on how it feels.
I've been following this thread for a while now and have found it really helpful - even though I haven't contributed anything! So cheers guys...
Thought I'd share my G16 build with you - it might be sacrilege to you guys at Mojo as it's a Rockshox build, but I'm absolutely loving it and it enabled me to simply swap over my parts from a previous build. Currently running a 160mm Pike on the front and would ideally like a 170 (have tried to find a company that produces/would be willing to machine me a 10mm integrated crown race spacer to test the geometry benefits before I drop hundreds on a new fork), but so far to no avail - if anyone knows of anywhere, or has an alternative suggestion please let me know!
As has been said repeatedly, I haven't really found any negatives to the 'radical' geometry, she's a big beast and certainly no xc whippet, but for a bike with its intentions, I've never ridden anything that climbs as well. Point it downhill and it's simply outstanding; it can be set up to give a lively ride or ludicrously planted and stable - the chassis doesn't limit this in any way. As for cornering, I'm getting increasingly irritated with people telling me you need short chainstays to corner well - everyone needs to slap a Geometron into a tight corner at a good lean angle and think again.
[img] http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/14437619/ [/img]
[img] http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/14437617/ [/img]
scottarizona - MemberIt seems intuitive to me that you would want the chain ring to line up with the middle of the cassette.
It's not actually so important- as long as it's reasonably near the middle it should work fine (the middle 3 rings are pretty equiavlent to the chainlines you get from a double chainset).
There's an argument for it being better to have the chainline off to the left, to bias it onto the lower gears.
Webbe's bike
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
^ good work the Podge!
Nice Bike Webbe!
If we are sharing pictures...My ion GPI 🙂
[img] 
[/img]
Webbe, to sort out the angles you want to test just get yourself a cane creek angleset, throw in the -1.5 cup and you'll be golden, trust me 😉 The EC56 lower cup will give you about 11mm of lift at the front on your bike to give it a 170mm position, the -1.5 angle will deliver the 'correct' front end as per a 2016 bike which it looks like yours is from the head tube (can't see the integrated guide on the gusset)
Scot, keep riding, the more you use it the better it will get, the fun on 'average' trails comes from increasing confidence in the front end grip and pushing the speed, the flat/shallow gradient cornering is fantastic, I just love carving it like a snowboard in the turns.
I'm slightly puzzled by the chainline process, I'll chat with CP about it. No other feedback to that effect, but you should also find yourself in the higher gears more often with the anti squat properties.
Cheers for sorting that Podge - I'll try to post correctly next time...
Chainline - that sounds ideal. I'll look into it.