I s'pose there is a lot more 'wrap' on the front.Even with centre track and a snubber the gates bikes I've built all slipped like a bugger if not tensioned enough.It was a few years ago though.I wonder if they've changed the design a bit.
Ta
ChainlineComes in at a hair under 15.4kg/33.8lb
Ooff! That'll be a nice work out going up hill then...... 😉
Max torque, yep, probably an extra 30kcals on a typical 2hr trail ride. I'l have an extra hobnob, carry 0.5l less water and only one spare tube
Looks great! Is everyone running 35mm or shorter stems on these?
Chiefgrooveguru, yes, I run a 30mm in my std bike but wider bars and short offset forks. The GPI had 35m and std offset forks, 780mm bar.
Most people running a 35mm stem. Don't recommend any longer Unless a particular reason/desire ultimately it's personal preference though.
I find this very interesting what JP (who has a lot of experience) has to say and how Jack responds too.
A different way of getting across some aspects I have been trying to convey before a demo on the Geometron or when answering questions after (sometimes natural) conclusions drawn based on potential rider's experiences when seeing headline or out of context angles. The Geometron is most definitely a package, not just a frame. It allows you to be more dynamic in the bike not less you can feel the suspension working with you and thus the trail, you get feedback from the frame and suspension, but that's very different to just feeling the trail....can't wait to see it on the WC DH circuit.
http://www.alinecoaching.co.uk/news/jack-reading-on-nicolai-2016
Can anyone tell me if the rear travel is adjustable on the geometron? There look to be chips and the spec sheet says High/low position but travel is just listed as 155mm. I'm currently running 150mm pikes that i'm happy with and it would save a good chunk of cash if i could keep them.
Also the website states "We also tailored the anti-squat to be just enough when you are in the gears used for technical climbs. In this way, the anti-squat falls away reducing the feeling of 'hang-up' on the bump edge as you shift into higher gears. This involved us specifying a higher main pivot in the first instance and allows a range of 30T, 32T or 34T chainrings and an individual ride height depending on your riding focus" What are the implications of running a 24/38T double crank?
The travel can sort of be adjusted, in that you can ask mojo to reduce or increase the stroke I believe. There's no chip on mine.
Regarding the gearing, worth checking with mojo or chainline but I would anticipate that you would have more anti-squat in the smaller ring and less in the bigger ring. Chris at mojo was running something like a 36 ring to have minimal anti squat. If you go for the full demo option you could probably test out how it feels.
You feel like your arms have had a workout just watching the video clip in that link Chainline posted.
Also the website states "We also tailored the anti-squat to be just enough when you are in the gears used for technical climbs. In this way, the anti-squat falls away reducing the feeling of 'hang-up' on the bump edge as you shift into higher gears. This involved us specifying a higher main pivot in the first instance and allows a range of 30T, 32T or 34T chainrings and an individual ride height depending on your riding focus" What are the implications of running a 24/38T double crank?
If you run a double then it'll have minimal anti-squat (anti-squat makes a bike pedal efficiently) in the 38 but very little kickback. When in the 24 it'll stand up tall and possibly jack a bit when pedalling and won't absorb the bumps too well when climbing. Personally I wouldn't run a double on it - it's too carefully optimised around 32-36 chain rings.
Looks pretty sick, I like.
Loving this thread, I'd already pretty much decided on a Liteville-601 as my next bike but these Geometron's look fascinating and have thrown a spanner in the works....will the DH-team be running 'short' travel rear suspension like the bikes on this thread or going for the usual 200mm+?
Is the idea of Jack Reading going for stiffer suspension based on the theory that the geometry of said bike can do the job meaning less reliance on compliant suspension?....or is he simply aping Aaron Gwin's setup in the hope something will stick and it'll work for him?...honest answer please!
I think the team are planning to develope a Geometron inspired DH bike, not specifically run Geometrons DH and most top DH riders run really stiff suspension don't they?
Not much time at the mo, I'll answer later. The DH team will run Geometrons. tweaked mainly in CS length since the production bike was centred around the best compromise for all round use.
The suspension will obviously be to each riders taste, tuned by Mojo.
The Geo is the same as the production bike to my knowledge.
Riklegge, unless you have a special, you will have a chip or trail key next to the the rear mount of the shock and oval insert. IT allows you to increase or decrease the BB height and HA by approx 6mm/0.5deg
You can change the travel as described by using modified shocks. The DH team will use 180-190 rear travel.
The set up will be different to other DH bikes I think because the linkage is progressive not linear as most DH linkages are.
The Geometron wont work so well with a double its true. The bigger the front ring the better the anti squat or the further down the block the anti squat is present. Big grunty pedallers are using a bigger front ring.
I'm running 32 on mine and its got strong antisquat in 1, 2, 3 and a magic 4, then it tails off.
THE GPI has less anti squat but seems to remain well controlled after the test at the weekend. Muddy as, no slipping, it was rick solid and silent. Nice in fact. Rear suspension responsivness is incredible with such a light rear wheel.
Lots of interest in the bike and quite a few did the pick up test, went for a ride on it, came back surprised and took contact details, all good. Most were surprised how light it felt.
Another video on Jacks facebook page.
Cheers, with 180-190mm of rear travel (doesn't the new Intense have something like 240mm!?) they'll be responsive that's for sure!
Interesting stuff, all sports need free thinkers/mavericks like Chris Porter, some of his ideas haven't caught on but I think this one will....as others on this thread have said it's got me eyeing up slacksets for my own bike so it's not just potential Geometron owners that have had their interest piqued by the numbers being offered by Nicolai/Mojo.
My Trance runs the SX version numbers of 160mm/140mm front/rear and has a head angle of 66 degrees, intrigued as to what taking it out to 64 degrees would do....little winter project I reckon!
Looking at the leverage curves, more downhill bikes nowadays are progressive than are linear. Most are around 8" / 203mm rear travel, a few have significantly more. The main difference with the Geometron is the vastly longer reach. Will the Geometron DH bikes be running dual crown 200mm forks?
The Geometron wont work so well with a double its true. The bigger the front ring the better the anti squat or the further down the block the anti squat is present. Big grunty pedallers are using a bigger front ring.
Other way around - you always get more anti-squat with a smaller chain ring.
chiefgrooveguru - MemberOther way around - you always get more anti-squat with a smaller chain ring.
He said better, rather than more.
Geometron owners:
What size are you riding Long/Longer/Longest/Custom?
How tall are you?
6 foot 2 longest
Northwind, Chiefgrooveguru is right. Serves me right for rushing this morning and trying to do two things at once; work (nothing at all to do with bikes) and answer questions on the way out the door..I have to be thinking straight to do kinematics, or fluid dynamics...but that's work!
32-36t is the optimum chainring range for the GeoMetron bike, 32 providing the most anti-squat in the lower gears, 36t the least. You can feel it drop off significantly as you move down the block/up the gears (smaller teeth).
The GPI doesn't have as much anti squat as the GeoMetron. it runs a 39t front sprocket and 34t rear.
With the new cassettes (I have a goatlink on my xtr rear mech) you can run up to 45t low gear on the rear cassette, thats pretty damn low gearing.
Chiefgrooveguru, I was led to believe most current DH rigs weren't designed to be progressive in a way that is optimised to work with an air shock , they were more linear. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I also haven't checked.
The standard Ion 16 or 20 linkages are progressive but somewhat more linear than a Geometron linkage if Chris doesn't speak to me with forked tongue. Its definitely what my backside tells me when riding it compared to my previous std Ion's. I wouldn't go so far as to say baggy but the Ion is less controlled n the early and mid stroke positions, particularly around the sag point, would be a fair statement.
I have requested Antonio of linkage blogspot do an analysis of the Geometron and GPI, I'd be interested to see it. I run a Mac so don't have it.
The DH bike will have the CS/SS optimised to use the longer shocks and allow more travel. Yes they are already running Fox 40's currently at 180mm as Chris has done with the option of adjustable offset clamps.
I don't know if they will run the full 200mm up front or even go that far at the rear.
Building specific CS/SS allows the geometry of the current bike to be preserved.
GPI at the weekend..
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Blimey that's slacker than a slack thing! 😯
Won't the super slack head angle effectively shorten the reach and therefore negate the longer TT to a certain extent?
Duir- I'm 5'6" and ride the long.
Geometron on Cannock Chase Donkey Trail 😆
Whilst I don't sell any, as mentioned, I've talked and ridden with a fair few owners and generally speaking below 5'8" I'd recommend Long/S 620 ETT, 485mm reach, 5'9" to 6" maybe 6"1" M/longest 640 ETT, 508mm reach I think, maybe 6ft, deffo 6'1" and above 660mm ETT, 525mm reach
Mojo would start with Longest at 6ft, my opinion is definitely have a proper test ride on longer(M) and longest(L) at that size to see what works best.
As ever some caveats in that, the Geometron sits low at the front with that slack Ha and the ETT can be deceiving a little, I'd say it could feel a bit longer, quite a lot of surprise when sitting for the first time how low the front is with a 180mm fork. Most people I have ridden with settle on 20-30m of spacers with a 20mm bar rise again depending on riding style, more inherently aggressive riders have got away with more spacers.
As I became more used to the front and more and more trusting I went from slammed on ride number 1 to 15-20mm under now which is much more comfortable for pedalling.
All above goes out the window with long legs/short arms/body or vice versa or some other combo.
Custom top tube heights/seat tube heights are possible.
One of the guys who bought a 29er, from Switzerland I think, was sub 6ft but wanted another 20mm on the longest after a test day
So interested in the Geometron it will happen thought it would be last year but no joy so hopefully this one... Then I saw the 29er looks wise it's better IMHO but the proof will be in the riding....
Out of curiosity how much notice would be needed for the £200 test ride option.?
Well having just read this entire thread I can safely say I'm sold on it 100%.... The only question that remains is 650b or 29er if they ride the same then it's the 29er..but I would definitely go for the one which I feel is better, which is a no brainer really regardless of wheel size.... Now about that demo ride... How do I go about it.? I'll go for the freebie demo first as you never know...
squid you can either email me ( in profile ) to arrange something depending on where you are based, how far you want to travel, whether you want to ride somewhere you know and what size you are, or call Mojo and ask for Paul Shepperd to arrange a local to them demo ride
if you want to ride the 29er as well as the 27.5 then its probably best to do that near Mojo. Don't forget the 29er is only in the LONGEST size unless you go for a custom frame (additional cost).
I haven't ridden both. I've had enough feedback from those that have, to know that they don't ride the same.
Some more stuff on the DH version here
I've been enjoying the GPI version lately running with a 61deg HA as opposed to the 62deg of the std GeoMetron. There are some advantages I feel and so far no real disadvantages other than the need to firm up the rear damping a little to aid weight distribution and the fact you need to weight the front a little more to get the best out of it. Climbing is unaffected. It has a little more 'flop' effect, as you'd expect, on the flat at über low speed but once at walking pace that disappears and it doesn't wander uphill (SA is slightly steeper), that same effect aids turn in under braking whilst allowing you to keep the front loaded.
Switching back to the standard bike it's amazing how neutral it feels, just a fantastic all rounder, I still love it, can't wait to hit corners on it every time I go out 🙂
Interesting stuff..
Cheers for the reply, I know about the 29er size as I've already asked mojo and that the next slot for production is mid March...
I've a feeling I'm going to miss that one though, no rush though all good things.....
Ps:travelling not an issue mileage wise Scotland may be a bit too far but will see when I get round to arranging it....
It has a little more 'flop' effect, as you'd expect,
What does "flop" effect mean?
tooTATtoRIDEWheel flop refers to the way a bike tends to turn more than expected due to the front wheel "flopping" over when the handlebars are turned. Caused by the lowering of the front end as the bars are turned. It's a function of head angle and trail. slacker head angles and reduced offsets result in increased trail and thus an increase in 'flop'.
The rotational inertia of the front wheel reduces the effect, this is basically more speed. So at slower speeds there is a feeing of faster turn in or falling in. Not necessarily a bad thing but requiring effort to counteract at slower speeds but also contributing to easier turn in in many ways at higher speeds once a turn has been initiated which is slightly counter intuitive.
Thank you for this very helpful explanation. Much appreciated.
Been watching this thread for a while now with great interest. Really disappointed to see the costs increasing £250 across all the options though 🙁 I'd been considering the frame and fork option but at £3150 it really makes you wonder if it's justifiably that much better than some of the other offerings out there. Any idea what's driven the increase? Doesn't look like anythings changed?
Looks bloody ridiculous. Especially pictured at Cannock. Dem's angles are pretty well murgered out. I'm sure it suits some folk.
£ = supply:demand
GBP has weakened by 10% odd vs EUR, so that looks like an exchange rate correction.
Nice nominative determinism Mr Deer. 😉
I'm sure its worth the money and would still love to have one but its just too much cash for me
Chainline, are these frames (Geometron and GPI) optimised for air shocks? Or do they work equally well with coil shocks?
I think it is exchange rate correction. There are options you can choose or not that affect the price, for example the price includes a full frame bearing service and full suspension aftercare package including damage (not cosmetic)
@Wookster not materially, its about 3mm difference overall. I'm running a 35mm stem on that rather than my normal 30mm.
@tooFATtoRiDE You'd have to confirm that with Mojo, but optimised would be a good word to use. One of Mojo's staff uses a coil, and did at the demo so it clearly works with a coil. Whether it works as well I can't comment. Never tried it.
Angles work just fine at Cannock, or anywhere really. They angles aren't driven by stability..which is the common thought, it's about how they make the bike corner and the way they influence how you ride the bike, deliver reach and affect climbing. Clearly there are benefits to descending too, particularly in maintaining a neutral riding position on steep terrain. But a key driver was to maximise corner speed and traction on flat corners, the theory being that if you get the bike working really well on flat corners it becomes effective everywhere naturally.
How close is the geometry to that of a motocross bike? Just thinking that they're not designed for going downhill at all but for going around corners as fast as possible.
I'm still wondering about putting a -1 or -2 deg headset in my Spitfire (the headset I originally bought ended up in my new superslack Bird hardtail) but am thinking that maybe the bike needs longer reach to allow sufficient weighting of the front wheel on such a slack bike?
Can't comment on how close it is, just that the offroad bike was Chris's first inspiration.
I am lead to believe that the price change is to allow for a small number of dealers to begin offering the frameset and ease the testing load and make it geographically more accessible. Keeping up with test rides out of Mojo HQ is proving a challenge I gather.
That won't change the option of doing something on local trails with me or similar if that is a desired option but should make it easier overall to get and test the bikes.
The dealer option allows for an easier 'owner' configuration as I understand it's the frame set that will be offered.
chiefguru, I think the reach is key to the overall handling but shouldn't affect your ability to use a slacker front, that is down to how you ride it/weight it.
Ultimately many DH bikes are running around the 63deg mark and are short reach in comparison to a Geometron.
It will give you a feel for how the front deals with that kind of angle (63deg or below is when it gets really interesting) as slong as you don't decide that other (possible) handling traits like more difficult climbing unless you position yourself correctly and the possibility the rear may slide more are a direct result of just the HA.
Chainline - where did you see info on the ne DH bike? Couldn't see it on the facebook links you posted before.
Which info honourablegeorge
[url=
See if those work
That works 🙂
Wow.
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iIs' going to be very interesting if he/they can post markedly better results or times.
