[Closed] Anyone lost a cotic??

He sounds like an idiot and a chancer.

He purchased stolen property so it's his problem that he was so quick to rush over and pay the money without even checking the bike over (as you do when you believe you're buying a genuine bike). Who gives a monkeys what his missus will say. He's obviously realised that he can't sell the parts for what he was expecting and thinks it's easier just to get the cash back out of you.

Pass his info on to the police and they should get you your bike. And tell him to get his money back from Dylan.

This thread just keeps on giving

Not the email I would have sent, he checked and found nothing to suggest that it was stolen, he just thought it was damaged hence the price. Your email (to me) seems to suggest that he's foolish and should have known better.

Its always difficult to get the feel of something when its written.

They were my thoughts initially woodster but the more I thought about it, the more I realised that he's got to be genuine.

He did take measures to check if it was stolen. OK, so only a couple but it' a couple more than most would.

I've had a further email from him which also backs up his genuinuity (I know that's not a word but I like it)

Yes thepodge, I agree. I sent it in haste and with a whirlwind in my head. I've had a further email from him and I feel truly guilty - I believe I may have been unfair.

Have to agree with thepodge here, and vehemently disagree with woodster.

wouldn't it be an offence of handling stolen property, now he knows it's stolen, if he doesn't hand it over to the police immediately ?

Even if he genuinely bought it, then he will have to learn a hard lesson that it's a bad idea to buy shoddily painted bikes off facebook from people who don't know what they're selling.

I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that you should be the one out of pocket to get your now ruined bike back.

I believe I may have been unfair

To add something more constructive, someone's going to lose out here, and since you both seem to be willing to communicate and deal with it maturely, why don't you try and come to some sort of arrangement and split the parts roughly in half according to what you both need. Neither of you are completely happy, but neither of you lose out completely and you've made the best of a bad situation.

That said, I'd be speaking to the police again in the light of new developments.

Definitely genuine. And now I feel like a right arse for being so hasty! Damn me. I hate myself now.

Mr Buyer, I apologise. I will email you with an apology too but I also wanted to apologise publicly.

Hi xxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for the email - I am very much genuine, I don't see it naivety, I see it as honesty - the cycling community is a close knit bunch and one I am very closely involved in. I also don't think that hiding is the answer - if you choose to go to the police, and they speak to this chap, the chances are they'll be knocking on my door as I'm sure they'll want to know who he sold it to.

Plus, it isn't fair on you - I can't live with knowing I have a stolen bike in my possession (if it is indeed yours, however it certainly appears that way) and knowing you are out there, trying to track it down. I become as bad as the thief.

To answer your questions: -

1. Of course, I would be happy for you to post the email, and would be interested to read the responses actually.
2. Perhaps I was naive in purchasing, I'd say more rushed and didn't do enough due diligence, however I actually didn't think it was worth an awful lot more than what I paid when I went to see it. Yes, of course the parts have value, however with the paint on the frame it could have been hiding all sorts of nasties beneath. A hairline crack in a weld for example is really easily covered by a poor paint job, and that's what I was expecting - I assumed the frame would be of little to no value when I purchased it, so was basing it on used parts value alone.

I actually wanted the wheels as a winter set for my bike, and the brakes for my partners Ibis, as she's running some very basic shimano ones.
I felt the value dropped considerably on some of the bits on the bike with what had been done to them - the forks for example, which good, are a few years old now, and with a poor respray and a service at £80, didn't put much value on them after all the work that would be needed.

Sorry, I'm just trying to justify and explain my reasons for paying what I did, for what I got, once I saw the bike and it's condition.

3. please please please don't think I was criticizing or bashing your original build, not my intention whatsoever - I'm sure it would have been an excellent build before this scumbag got his hands on it. I just wanted to let you know in the email that whoever had it has made a pigs ear of it.

4. It doesn't stil have a charge spoon, a madison flux which I appreciate is the same design. Is this the one you meant?

The frame - yes of course, I am more than willing for you to have the frame back. You are very welcome to collect it from me, or I can post it at my expense if that helps. I think I saw you're in Cheshire, so you're very welcome to come to me and pick it up if you wanted to.

I don't really know what I should do xxxxxxxxxx - ideally, I'd just like to not lose the money I paid for it. I know that this sounds really selfish, but just after xmas it's a loss that hurts, but also if I have to, will obviously accept it - I have your property in my possession after all. Of course, I would never expect you to buy it from me either.

I was targeted by professional thieves over a year ago - they stole 6 bikes from me, cleaned me out completely of around £5,000 worth of bikes, most were never seen again so I completely understand the feeling behind losing something that is so important to your family.

The individual I bought it from didn't strike me as a thief, but what does one look like? I went to his house, met his mum and his girlfriend, the bike was in the kitchen, he allowed me to have a look around it etc etc. Didn't seem shifty or wanting to take the first cash offer - again, I don't know how a thief operates, but it didn't seem like what I would class as thief like behaviour - I've not bought bikes before when they want to meet you at a petrol station or car park etc, as an example.

I am happy to help with trying to give evidence and get a conviction if it would help - I'm not going to withhold information, so if the home address, name of girlfriend etc helps at all, I can give these. I have screen shots of the sales post too, which I got after I saw your thread as some form of legitimizing my position.

How would you feel if I sold the parts off the bike, and once I made my money back, any profits would be given to you? Perhaps this is a way that you still benefit from the situation financially, I certainly don't make any gains (and honestly do not want to) but don't lose either, and the police can get any information they want from me to help with any sort of investigation? I'm not sure if this is appropriate, even possible or viable, but I'm just thinking out loud.

Finally - thank you for your appreciation with this. I don't want to end up with a criminal record for the sake of £220, and don't want you to be left out in the cold. You're right, you could have reacted in many different ways, and would have had every right to react in a very different way to the way you have, so for that I thank you enormously.

Look forward further to your thoughts on this.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Feel sorry for the buyer tbh, he seems genuine. He hasn't really got a 'steal' price on the bike. It needs alot of work to get it back in decent condition.
The spec isn't really that great other than the frame. How much would a similarly specced decent bike sell for, £350?

Hmmmm moral maze dilemma of the week!
I think you're handling it fine.
What's weird is that this is so hard from a legal/moral pov. That there is no speedy comeback for the buyer is ridiculous. Especially now that the police are aware.

I don't think I read it spelled out, but [b]was there an insurance payout?[/b] If so, then I think you've got to let go of any control of the bike as you're no longer the owner. Fair enough to seek a conviction of the thief/fence, but you can't take it out on the current buyer. It's just too far down the chain.

If there wasn't an insurance payout and you're still the bike's owner, then it gets more complicated.

That is a spectacularly long email to say not a lot and which still comes down to one thing. He doesn't believe he should miss out on a penny for his actions. It's all fluff designed to make you empathise with his situation to the hopeful end that it'll save him a couple of hundred quid so well worth trying from his side.

This guy seems to know a lot about bikes (Madison flux same as a charge spoon, Ibis, £5k worth of bikes) so I don't buy that the basic facts (badly painted bike from a seller who knows nothing about it) would not raise alarm bells.

He's going to sell the parts and let you keep the profits? How generous.

He's going to sell the parts and let you keep the profits?

It's funny, been reading this whole thread not really sure which side to take, but this comment swayed it completely towards supporting the idea of the bike being given back to whytesky or you alerting the police that he's bought stolen property.

Really not sure why as it's a fair thing to say but this really annoyed me.

woodster -would not raise alarm bells.

He checked 2 different places and managed to establish its original owner after checking a third.

If he doesn't want to be out of pocket he could have easily kept quiet, had the frame blasted & powdercoated, possibly even got new stickers and had it back in circulation with cash in his pocket.

So here's my reply by email.

I'm in agreement with thepodge here. I think the guy bought it in good faith and did check first to see if it had been reported stolen.

Hi xxxxxxxxxxx,

My apologies. I replied hastily and harshly. Not my intention to offend you. Honestly.

Also really sorry to hear that you yourself were a victim of theft.

I'm actually not bothered about the financial aspect of this. I absorbed the loss long ago, at a time when I couldn't really afford to but the loss was absorbed all the same.

My financial situation is hugely different now and the last thing I would want is for you to have to absorb any of the loss.

I do however feel that I have a duty to inform North Wales Police. They have been amazing and although it's highly unlikely that they'll be able to get a conviction, I think it's only right that they are informed so they can decide how to play it.

I shan't disclose your details to them until I have spoken to them and come back to you first.

PC X is back in on Wednesday as is Sergeant X. I will call them and ask them what they would like to do.

Could I ask that for now, you don't do anything with the frame or parts? Just for the time being. In case the police need them although I think that unlikely.

Once this has all been dealt with, if the police say I can keep the bike then I'm happy for you to have it. I'm really not bothered about the financial aspect.

If you really don't want the frame then I will happily accept it back. I loved the bike despite it being a really odd mix of parts and I will have it stripped and repainted and will build into something else. Either that or I will hang it on the wall forever as the one that got away but didn't!

On a side note - I didn't for one minute think that you were criticising my bike build. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about the parts I put on a bike. I put them on because I had them there and didn't (or more couldn't afford to) want to buy additional parts.

Regards

xxxxxxxxxx

[img] https://media.tenor.co/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/raw [/img]

AlexSimon - No, there was no insurance payout. If there had been an insurance payout then I would have informed them yesterday after contacting the police.

I like the kisses.

It was his risk to buy it without proof that it's not stolen, not yours.

I'd ask him to contact the police and take it from there. If he's out £220, that's his problem.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. But the buyer has handled and purchased stolen goods. It's the risk you take when buying used, he hoped to make a couple of quid or sell the remainder of the parts and keep the bits he wanted and end up in a cost neutral position. Then realised via a quick google that actually what he had bought was hot property. If it were me I would pass the details on to the police, alternatively offer him a £100 'reward' to help reduce some of his loss. It sounds harsh, but he is in no position to negiotiate. Guess the email was a 'consciousness clearer' or perhaps a hope that you would reply 'it's ok you keep it' so it could be sold on 'clean'

No one wins in these situations other than the initial thief. The fact someone who obviously knows the MTb world so well, took a pretty poor gamble merely adds fuel to bike theifs fires

whytesky - Member

AlexSimon - No, there was no insurance payout. If there had been an insurance payout then I would have informed them yesterday after contacting the police.

If it was me, I'd now be looking to create as much trouble for the seller and his family as possible.

Do some FB stalking, contact their schools, employers whatever, every single one of them who was present. Send links to this thread, and the emails between you and the buyer. Tell them this will go social in the next 48 hours with their company/school account tagged in it. That will force their hand, bring down a ton of shit onto the rat and his extended family.

The problem is that there's no fear anymore for thieves. Back in the day, it would have been borstal and big bubba - sadly these days you *might* get a crappy slap on the wrist.

I know the above sounds harsh, but you know what, the whole family have been present and complicit so they deserve it. When I was younger, there was a family I knew of who were all in on stuff like this, the sons were burglars and bike thieves, dad fenced, mum silently went along with it. Believe me, the family WILL know what this guys is like, so are as much a part of it as he is.

He checked 2 different places and managed to establish its original owner after checking a third.

Almost as if he knew it was stolen. Almost as if the bike was so clearly hot that a third party with no involvement whatsoever made a thread on a mountain biking forum to try to find the owner.

As it stands he has a clear conscience and gets to benefit from cheap stolen goods.

I'd bet that Ibis etc. have been nicked at some point.
I'd just pass all the details to the cops.
Both knew the bike was nicked at the time the exchange was done.

Nice, well interesting, story though. I'd be wanting back all the parts regardless of insurance status. Let the buyer sort out the sh** with his missus, and/or let him sort it out with the guy that's probably snorted 220 notes' worth.

I'd bet that Ibis etc. have been nicked at some point.
I'd just pass all the details to the cops.
Both knew the bike was nicked at the time the exchange was done.

Nice, well interesting, story though. I'd be wanting back all the parts regardless of insurance status. Let the buyer sort out the sh** with his missus, and/or let him sort it out with the guy that's probably snorted 220 notes' worth.

This.

Jeez some of you are bloody harsh.

Personally i think he sounds like a genuine guy.... I'll even go as far as to offer as pile of spares to make up for what you've both lost out, i have some bars, front mechs, grips, etc.... i'm happy if it helps someone build a bike back to a better condition

I think you're being harsh.

He actually wants to go to the police station tonight and give full details of what's happened and is completely willing to return everything.

He didn't have to get in touch. Didn't have to include his telephone number in the email. He could have just used the parts, binned the frame and kept quiet. Instead, he got in touch. It takes a big man to do such a thing IMHO.

Me, I've replaced it all anyway. I have a workshop full of bike parts. Parts that I may or may not ever use again but will probably never ever get round to selling. What the hell would I do with more parts?

I'm more than happy to get the frame back if the police are happy with it. Hell, even if I don't get the frame back, who cares! It's been a great little forum adventure and hopefully kept some of you entertained.

I think we've all learned something. Me - not to be too hasty and tho think beofore I go rushing in!

Who'd have thought a bike that was stolen 18 months ago and which had changed colour would turn up out of the blue as a result of one vigilant forum member?!

weeksy - That's a really generous offer, thank you. However, I'm not in need of any parts and I think the buyer probably now has what they need.

I had to push the police really hard to get them to go and recover it. When they eventually went around to arrest him, he'd started to break it up. I got all the bits apart from the frame, dropper post and saddle.

To date, there has not been a conviction. He claimed that he bought it at a car boot sale.It comes down to his word against mine!

asbrooks is one of our riding group - currently out of action with a busted collarbone. The thing that winds me up about the stories I hear of police taking an interest or not taking an interest is the inconsistency. I'm sure asbrooks has told me, but how can the guy's defence be that he 'bought it at a car boot sale' when he has been forced to hand over the other bits he still had? If the police genuinely believed him , how could they requisition the parts?

This kind of thing just smacks of not having the resources to do the job properly. I wish the police could just say, "we're sorry, we can't investigate this crime as no one was physically assaulted or killed - please take this up with your local MP".

So what's to stop the buyer from going around to the scrotes house with a view to getting his money back anyway? especially now the police are involved. I would want the frame back at least, I would hang it up in my workshop as a reminder. I have a pro burner hanging up that was stolen from me when I was 14 and it was recovered after about a year, I worked a paper round and a milk round to buy that bike, I was distraught at the time, and it now hangs up looking down at me smiling. it is also worth a small fortune.

So what's to stop the buyer from going around to the scrotes house with a view to getting his money back anyway?

Totally agree. Force the little shit or his family to reimburse in full, plus a £100.00 payment for inconvenience or else their details go public as fences of stolen goods.

andyrm - Member

Totally agree. Force the little shit or his family to reimburse in full, plus a £100.00 payment for inconvenience or else their details go public as fences of stolen goods.

Should he do it whilst doing a Danny Dyer accent too?

I used to work with a bloke who did a lot of car boot sales. He came to me one day offering to sell me a bike. I went to take a look and it was a nearly new Specialized Roubaix Elite, approx 1500-2000 of value new I think. He told me he'd tried it out and didn't get on with it so did I want it at the bargain price of 500 quid.

I asked him if it was stolen, he said he hadn't asked as it was such a bargain and I should do the same. I said no thanks.

Some people are just ****s.

I don't think it matters if the buyer is genuine or not. He has bought something that the seller had no right to sell. He should give it back to the OP. It doesn't matter if he is out of pocket.

I've nothing to add, other than:

Police weren't remotely interest and said it wouldn't be taken any further. They guy found his bike for sale on Gumtree the following week, notified the police, yet they still nothing.

Is exactly what happened to me when my bikes were nicked. 2 bikes nicked, one turned up for sale on Gumtree a few weeks later and you could clearly see the other under a sheet in the pics. In fact, they've now been up for sale on Gumtree on 3 separate occasions.

Did they do anything? Did they ****....

I don't think it matters if the buyer is genuine or not. He has bought something that the seller had no right to sell. He should give it back to the OP. It doesn't matter if he is out of pocket.

Exactly. Most of the bits on that bike belong to the OP, and need to be returned to him ASAP. The rest of it needs to be handed to the police, along with a statement about who he bought it from and when.

If, after that, the two of them want to come to an arrangement about the parts, that's a separate transaction between them.

A bit of honesty gets him a pat on the back, but nothing else.

Lots of bar-stool lawyers on this thread. Not to mention "nails" vigilantes who think nothing of confronting scrotes on their turf, prior to marching them down the cashpoint to get the readies presumably.

Yeah right.

End of the day the buyer had no need to do what he's done. He ran a couple of checks and he made a judgement call. Turned out to be wrong and he was man enough to own up and try to sort it out. He could so easily have kept shtum and nobody's any the wiser.

Respect to him. As for culpability, a quick check online will tell you that you can't be done for unwittingly buying stolen goods. However, if once you become aware that they're stolen you don't then inform the police, you could become liable. Seems like by contacting the original owner the buyer has covered that one off.

To all those who are critical of the buyer, I'm assuming that at some point you've bought 2nd hand online. Be it ebay, gumtree, pinkbike or even this venerable forum. Can you honestly, hand on heart, say that you know 100% - without a shadow of a doubt - that every bike, part, component, accessory, lifestyle gadget or whatever wasn't nicked at some point?

Of course you can't.

And regarding the argument re paint job on the bike. When I was a kid I used to respray my bike from time to time. I'm sure the quality was terrible, but it didn't mean that I'd nicked it..

Woody- One word.

Resources.

Don't blame the foot soldiers, blame the mess on those who created it, Westminster.

all of this makes me wonder what you guys would say if someone bought a bike: "normal" price from someone who knows bikes.

so no red flags

and it turns out to be stolen.

would buyer of such bike be in the wrong? would he have to return the bike?
just wondering.

Funkrodent pretty much has it. whytesky and the buyer are both trying to do the right thing now (even if the buyer has made a mistake in buying it in the first place). Suggesting going round the buyer's house and threatening him just makes you look stupid.

I had an Orange Alpine and a Lapierre Zesty 517 stolen from my garage in February. Both bikes turned up for sale on gumtree in Widnes a few days later, bear in mind I live 140 miles away.
I gave the police the sellers name,address and facebook details.
Because of inter force difficulties the police said it would be difficult to get the scrote arrested.
An amount of pressure was applied to said scrote and he gave the name of the person who he bought the bikes from, in my home town.
Eventually we got the police interested and said scrote was arrested.
He pleaded innocence and eventually convinced the police that he was a victim too!! Although if you had seen his FB page you would beg to differ.
However the police stuck at it and in December the thief from my home town was convicted of my bike thefts and a host of others plus conspiracy to supply drugs and was sent down for a few years.
So after a great deal of encouragement and a lot of work done by us and friends of ours Humberside police came up trumps.

If the guy found the stolen thread on here, he's surely reading this thread too?!?

Can you honestly, hand on heart, say that you know 100% - without a shadow of a doubt - that every bike, part, component, accessory, lifestyle gadget or whatever wasn't nicked at some point?

No I can't say 100% but neither do I pat myself on the back for a kick ass bargain that seems a bit too good to be true. I've bought several second hand frames, couple of wheelsets etc and yes, somewhere between none and all of them could have been nicked but I bought them from here for the most part and I did some basic checks like asking for frame numbers and searching for them online. In this day and age, there's not much more you can do.