Bought an e-bike on the Bike To work Scheme.
Long Story, short... its a massive POS (but thats another thread!) , its been back on warranty several times for the same issue. the week its out of warranty its failed again. Trouble is when the fault occurs its un-ridable.
I still have a year to pay.
Bought from a large halfords owned (i think) retailer who have never been interested in sorting issues. Brand has been ok but always have to go to small independant local dealer for repairs which doesn't seem fair.
I've contacted the Brand directly regarding this latest fault but not holding out too much hope. I have argued that its the same fault that started in the warranty period and even though work was done under warranty it did not solve the issue.
I commute to the office 6 miles each way, twice a week on it.
If i can't get it sorted by the Brand i don't really want to invest any money in repairing it as its such a horrible bike anyway. I'd rather sink cash into paying off the remaining amount and starting again.
I guess i'll have to suck it up, but has anyone else been in this position??
cheers.
The cycle to work scheme is irrelevant to a certain extent.
Just request a refund, you have given them a chance to repair and if it's the same thing every time that only has to be once.
Not on the bike to work, but had a bike which in short fell apart inside 600miles, in summary.
-Fox X2 failed (in the usual way)
-Wheels failed (spokes contantly losing tension and bearings failed)
-Fork CSU creaked
-Frame had poor QC so suspension rubbed itself though (this was the major issue of why the bike was returned)
-Motor failed
The time in which it took to reach some sort of resolution for the frame was over 4 months, they come up with a replacement front triangle which had its welds dressed back to add clearance to the rocker. They hadn't addressed the swingarm eating itself.
The other parts wern't resolved so was on the verge of enlisting a consumer rights specialist, at this point the UK distributor took the easy option and took the bike back with a full refund. Cited that the bike was not fit for purpose and had serious issues with the manufacturing
The liability here lies with your employer not the retailer. They are the one loaning you the bike, not the retailer. As an individual you have zero rights with the retailer, only the company does and so at any point the retailer is free to tell you to do one and wait for 'official' contact from your employer, or perhaps even the scheme if thats how its constructed. All you can say for certain is they dont owe you the individual anything from a legal perspective. You should also be aware that the cycle to work could be withdrawn if the bike is deemed unviable, and you would have little (maybe no) redress to get the amount you paid back other than maybe a shot at the period from when the bike broke until when the loan ended.
On the plus side, if you've not paid too much down already, you can for the exact same reasons above, take the bike into your workplace and hand it back. You shouldn't be charged further payments unless they are able to get it back to working again. In that scenario in theory your company raises it with shop or scheme (depending on the set up, and it gets sorted). I suspect the scheme would have more luck than the company though.
You cannot request a retailer refund as you didn't pay for the bike, and it's not yours to hand back, so if its not fixed then your first port of call is the company you work for.
Just warning you! Hopefully none of the bad points above would come to fruition, but forewarned an all. Good luck.
Just FYI for everyone else its also worth noting (esp. if buying eebs on C2W) that you will technically never have a direct warranty on your bike as at the end of the scheme period you become the second owner and 99% of warranties die at that point. While most shops don't actually record the first owner so its kind of hard to prove you're not the first owner, if they needed to they could almost certainly lean on this to get out of any warranty they couldn't resolve.
At least say what (electric?) bike it is?
thanks @benpinnik, fortunatly (or not) in this case the employer is me.
I've paid off about 2 thirds so far so quite a chunk.
I've contacted the scheme.
Ah well, at least you can worst case write it off and not pay anymore on it hopefully.
If you are the sole employee or its a "pool" bike you don't have to pay the loan back yourself? Obviously if you are not the sole employee the scheme has to be fair and equal between employees. The business buys the bike and loan it to the employee.
Scheme say nothing they can can do, balance is £600 🙁
We have several employees on the scheme so have to act accordingly
Who made the POS ?
Well i guess the main problem is the electric system which is Mahle x35. Although bike has been back on warranty for non drive related issues too.
Don't worry, i'll be slagging it off at great length once i get it sorted 🙂
We have several employees on the scheme so have to act accordingly
In your position as the employer, it sounds like acting accordingly would be telling the scheme that you'll be sacking them off and using another provider if they don't sort it.
(You don't even need a scheme to do it, just run it through your accounts - it's easier for your employees that way and lets them buy a bike from anywhere they like, without the shop taking a cut.)
No surprise. It's why the industry hates them (schemes) so much. They charge 10-15% for getting in the middle then wash their hands of the responsibility that comes with it.
It's of course up to you, but may be worth reminding the scheme provider (Im assuming that they did it like most schemes do) that they sold the bike to your company, and as such they are liable for any failure of the bike that may be construed as it being not fit for purpose. In the case of a bike specifically sold for commuting, unless you were given a specific service regimen you failed to follow or have abused the bike, < 2 years commuting use would not be deemed fit for purpose.
As munrobiker says the paperwork is simple (Google for sample salary sacrifice paperwork) and there's no follow up, so its not like HMRC will be checking you did it right as long as your accountants 'account' for it properly.
(You don’t even need a scheme to do it, just run it through your accounts – it’s easier for your employees that way and lets them buy a bike from anywhere they like, without the shop taking a cut.)
to be honest i don't really understand the whole thing. Was a colleague who set it up. To me at the time it seemed a simple way to spread the cost of a bike for commuting. There were some big discount amounts mentioned, not sure what they equate to in real terms.
All i know is i now have a nice door stop for the shed.
Think i'll opt for a 24 month intrest free credit card for its replacement and save my self the hassle.
As munrobiker says the paperwork is simple (Google for sample salary sacrifice paperwork) and there’s no follow up, so its not like HMRC will be checking you did it right as long as your accountants ‘account’ for it properly.
If you read all the bumph for the scheme (which i should have done properly!) they seem to suggest you make a big saving on the purchase cost of the bike but i assume that the actual saving is that comes out of gross salary so you are not paying tax and NI on that money?
So what you say makes sense.
Is the any real benift to a scheme?
Is the any real benift to a scheme?
Only to the people running the scheme and making a fortune for doing basically bugger all.
No, there's no benefit to the scheme.
At my last two employers, the person in accounts has bought the bike on the company credit card then just deducted the price in instalments from my monthly gross pay. My boss didn't have anything to do with it. The scheme genuinely contributes nothing.
Scheme say nothing they can can do, balance is £600 🙁
We have several employees on the scheme so have to act accordingly
What would you as the employer/company say/do if it was one of your other employees having this issue? My recollection is there is no actual requirement for the employer to recover all the costs from the employee (it is just that it usually makes better business sense to do so). Obviously you are creating precedent that if someone else has a comparable issue that you might be expected to take the hit for it. As an employer, who bought an item and rented it to your employee, some might feel that's the right thing to do anyway. Obviously you'll want to define some rules so its not "the chain is rusty because I never actually use it".
It’s of course up to you, but may be worth reminding the scheme provider (Im assuming that they did it like most schemes do) that they sold the bike to your company, and as such they are liable for any failure of the bike that may be construed as it being not fit for purpose. In the case of a bike specifically sold for commuting, unless you were given a specific service regimen you failed to follow or have abused the bike, < 2 years commuting use would not be deemed fit for purpose.
I don't think that business to business purchases have the same user protections that normal consumers do. Are their any T&C's either in your user agreement or the contract signed with the scheme provider that cover warranty responsibilities?
It’s of course up to you, but may be worth reminding the scheme provider (Im assuming that they did it like most schemes do) that they sold the bike to your company, and as such they are liable for any failure of the bike that may be construed as it being not fit for purpose. In the case of a bike specifically sold for commuting, unless you were given a specific service regimen you failed to follow or have abused the bike, < 2 years commuting use would not be deemed fit for purpose
Would that be the case where no consumer laws apply? As a business to business transaction it'll very much depend on what's specified in the contract.
Thread title is a bit misleading ;-p
What is the fault exactly? Could it be resolved with the buying of some components yourself? Better still - could the company buy them as the company owns the bike and is leasing it to you? The Mahle x35 looks like it's a £330 hub system with a remote that comes with the unit. Add a rebuild to the wheel. Or is it a battery/connector issue. Either way it could be resolved you'd have thought....
Seems such a shame but an admin nightmare of who is culpable with the bike user who really cares not being the person with rights to talk directly to the retailer and 10-15% skimmed off by a middle man no one wants or needs. I do wish the system would be scrapped and instead a specific style of utility commuter/shopper orientated bike made VAT exempt to one and all. Manufacturer submits the bike design/specification to get approved for VAT exemption and they are then sold as such directly to anyone who wants one. I'd miss out as my commute is long enough that I use a full blown road bike, but the people who we really want to be doing the short urban commutes and shopping trip we all want to see done by bike wouldn't.
What is the fault exactly? Could it be resolved with the buying of some components yourself? Better still – could the company buy them as the company owns the bike and is leasing it to you?
Possibly, there are several issues but the main one is a failed PAS. Trouble it is has had several and the last one failed within 4 weeks. This leads me to believe the issue is wider spread. However the error that comes back when its plugged in to the dealer App is error 0035 - PAS/sensor issue so thats what gets replaced.
Not really prepared to throw money (either mine or the companies) at it in these circumstances. the battery is cack and its a POS anyway in my opinion.
I don’t think that business to business purchases have the same user protections that normal consumers do.
No, currently having a bad month - my macbook (also a POS 🙂 ) just broke after 18 months - 6 months out of warranty. I went to the Apple store and they said oooh looks catastrophic we'll replace it. They brought up my account and saw it was bought on a buisness acount then promptly changed thier mind.
X35-based eBike bought on bike to work scheme. 3 months and 980 miles in and it's back with the dealer after the assistance stopped. Dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong but Mahle are saying its the battery and sending out another when they have them in stock. I rode it without the assistance anyway and it only made a 15 minute difference over 40 miles so I've told the dealer to remove the battery so I have a (lighter) commute bike until the new battery arrives. Hope this doesn't become a regular theme or I'll be chasing a refund but I actually quite like it so keeping fingers crossed.
No, currently having a bad month – my macbook (also a POS 🙂 ) just broke after 18 months – 6 months out of warranty.
Hard luck Pat. Presume you'll get some tax relief on it's replacement, but it still sucks.
X35-based eBike bought on bike to work scheme. 3 months and 980 miles in and it’s back with the dealer after the assistance stopped. Dealer couldn’t figure out what was wrong but Mahle are saying its the battery and sending out another when they have them in stock.
fingers crossed for you.
Sadly i personally think the X35 system is not fit for purpose for commuting in the UK. All my problems occured after riding on wet roads.
There are similar threads and situations to mine.
https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/mahle-x35-pas-sensor-problem.52383/