[Closed] anyone gone double rings and bash guard and regretted it ?

mick, i had one. found 36 to big for off road and found myself in 22 halfway down the cassette.
22/32 is more suitable i think.

99.9% of bashguards are fitted for fashion. Fine on a DB bike but not for XC surely. Why do people fit them to bikes to ride round smooth gravel loops in the woods??

same for suspension really

loddrik Suspension can make the corners fun, a bash ring can't

A friend of mine has just fitted one as he mulled his big ring on Hagg farm descent (Ladybower) if the majority of your riding in the peaks/rocky stuff they are worth it, I've been riding with one on the 'big bike' for years. IMO a big ring is only required for racing or your doing a fair bit of road.

the slx double & bash cranksets have a steel insert for the pedals, the triple doesn't - if that makes a difference

(I've binned 2 cranks due to pulling out the pedal threads, so I'm only buying "strong" cranksets in future)

i used my outer ring as a bash guard round stainburn the other day tony lol i'll prob just stick to standard triple then 😉

IMO a big ring is only required for racing or your doing a fair bit of road.

Horse Poo! A big ring is required if the speed you want to go can't be acheived on the middle ring, I was in the big ring (44) for about 80% of Llandegla yesterday.

 

[i]"he mulled his big ring on Hagg farm descent (Ladybower) if the majority of your riding in the peaks/rocky stuff they are worth it,"[/i]

How the **** did he manage that? Theres nothing on hagg farm descent to get close to a outer ring?
Are you seroius about the second comment? What/where in the 'majority' of the (Dark?) peak is a bash guard worth it?

Maybe if you're running a chain device as well, I can see the benefit there, or if you don't want to fork out for a big ring (though if you're not using it, then you don't need to replace it

For those few times I do scrape the big ring, I've not had a problem. The big ring is very useful on a few road sections (even on the big bike), not only as 32-11T (middle-little) is too small, but you can put the power down much better (also negating the chain angle its put at in 32-11)

mick, i sold the slx double and bought a slx triple 22/32/42 and it is v nice.
i like to used 32/32 for climbing.
i do not like to use 22. it feels uncomfortable climbing.

A bash ring is a good idea if you prefer towards technical stuff with lots of rocks and trialsy moves, if only for the fact that you have,t got a row of very sharp teeth to impail your leg on when you stumble or fall.

think its the triple for me then now next one i can get the drivetrain in slx for 250 or xt for 300 is xt really worth the extra 50 im really drawn towards thinking the slx is the better bet.

Been using double & bashring for a few years now after wrecking a couple of big rings around Stainburn and up on't moors on rocky stuff. Don't miss the big ring at all.
22/32 on the bouncy bike and 22/36 on the hardtail, the latter being the best combo IMO.

I think the only real difference is that the XT is a tad lighter.

£99 from evans for my c/set.
do not buy the front mech, it is crap. just a 2'' wide mud collector.
i use a x7 front mech and a xt shadow rear.

[i]if the majority of your riding in the peaks/rocky stuff they are worth it[/i]

Rubbish, I've never had a problem in the Peaks/Lakes and even the Alps with a normal triple. I was out today in the Peaks on my CX (48T big ring) and even that has never clipped rocks.
Standard triple will be fine and, as an added bonus, it's about a pound lighter too.
Bashguards have their place but that place is on full on DH bikes.

cheers chaps

I use 22/36 simply because I dont need a big ring - top gear of 36:11 allows me to pedal to high 20s which is enough offroad for me. Faster than that I ain't pedalling I'm braking 🙂 Lowest gear of 22/34 gets me up any hill (just about)

You need to shorten the chain and there is less overlap than with 22 and 32 rings so you use more of the granny gears.

The tandem has 22/36/ bash but I haven't bothered with a bash ring on the xc bike

And as a bonus!, My bro-in-law ground off the teeth on his old knackered big ring thus saving 100gms and £30 for a bash ring.

I bought Tons double ... he does have very weak legs for a big lad! 😉
I also have an SLX triple on hardtail.
Basically unles i am on the road I never realy used the third one so saw no real point in it.
Tony makes a fair point re ratio's but I got used to it and rarely climbed in middle anyway but if you do give it some thought before purchase a sthis will obviously nbe harder.
In terms of ratios using a 36 you only loose the last/top 3 gear ratios anyway iirc all the rest are there just in a different place.
Not sure what use the bash ring is per se not really bashed it yet
Quality wise both seem about the same

i mostly climb in the middle unless im proper borked so triple it is

How the **** did he manage that? Theres nothing on hagg farm descent to get close to a outer ring?
Are you seroius about the second comment? What/where in the 'majority' of the (Dark?) peak is a bash guard worth it?

A big rock jumped up and bashed and bent his big ring inwards he had to finish the rest of the ride in the granny.

You obviously don't [i]need[/i] a bash ring - as you don't [i]need [/i]suspension to ride rocky descents but it does help avoid big rocks bending your chainrings as witnessed only last week - I would rather be sporting a bashring than not on:-
The Beast
Cavedale
Edale Cross descent
Jacobs both up and down
Chapel Gate
Descent into Rowath Little Mill Inn
Anywhere big loose rocks are likely to bash stuff really.

i have a bash ring on my ss as i couldnt find and small chain ring bolts!!

A bash guard you don't use and a big ring you don't use are equally redundant. What I would classify as xc makes a bash guard a necessity as opposed to a fashion statement.

I am thinking about it on my Pitch for the megavalanche. I don't often use the big ring apart from on road, and I try to do as little of that as possible.

Can't see why you would be in the big ring for 80% of Llandegla, maybe not very good at keeping momentum? 😉

"A big rock jumped up and bashed and bent his big ring inwards he had to finish the rest of the ride in the granny"

I see. I've had one outer ring fold (a cheap truvativ one) once just pedalling along. When I got back I took an adjustable spanner to it and bent it back.

Shimano outer rings I've ridden/scraped over stuff have been fine though, just ground a few teeth on that one point on the ring

I've all but the last one of those bits of track, I've not really thought twice about running a triple on any of them.

"Can't see why you would be in the big ring for 80% of Llandegla, maybe not very good at keeping momentum?"
Maybe instead of using gravity to speed up he likes to pedal upto speed. (or doesn't just pootle round)

For alot of the woodsy riding we do a bashring helps just as you get an extra bit of clearance over stuff (logs especially). It's also nice to have if, like me, you can't resist trying to trials up rock steps (and failing). Oh and the other positive is that you can shorten the chain alot and it's less likely to fall off / clatter about.

I have a road bike for going fast on the road. Roads on the mountain bike = pootle.

they're not for fashion, i've got one on my heckler along with a 36t and short cage rear mech which means everything is tucked up out of the way. i really love the 36 up front as it means i have a wide range of gears without having to keep shifting at the front. you can't use the 44/34 on a triple anyway. i vote double and bash - seen how expensive chainrings are at the moment? i've seen far too many people with buggered outer rings and i DONT miss the big ring at all, not even riding down steep roads.

so let's summarise:

pros:
no more broken outer chainrings
more clearance
better ratio/can use all possible combinations/less changing gear at front
can't cut your leg on outer ring
one less ring to replace when they wear out

cons:
you might miss the extra speed you can get out of a 44

The choice is yours!

Tim

The only time I spin out of 36/11 is on road descents, and who cares about them?

Far prefer a double and bash setup. Be a bit careful with your choice of bash ring and it won't weigh any more than a 44T. The extra ground clearance is useful, as is the fact that there aren't any teeth to dig into big logs. Plastic bashes also slide over rocks easier.

You dont need any type of bike to ride in the peaks, FACT

Just looking a the stuff we rode at sheffield uni ad you'll see that. Lots of weekend wariors out on their ornage patriots, intense 6.6's, 575's and theres us on out motely assortent of hardtails, the odd BMX, and occasional DH bike.

Stanage on a cross bike anyone? It'll beat you!

Yes and no.

The bash is a useful change from a big ring because it slides over logs rather than digging into them.

But like Ton I couldn't get on with a 36t middle ring, so I'm going back to 32t middle and getting an even lower profile bash.

my big ring just ripped my kecks whenever I took the bike for a quick road jaunt.

I now have 3 brand new big rings as I never use them.

most of the guys in our riding group changed over to double and bash after seeing shinything's xrays of the teeth marks in his ankle bones. not nice. more clearance as mentioned above, though i'm too tight to shell out for 36 or even a 34t ring until i've worn out the existing ones. shorter chain - i found that with a big ring on rough fast descents i was only changing into big ring to keep the chain on, and the only reason i had so much chain was because i was running a big ring....
probably spin out at 30mph or so on off-road descents. fast enough.

Forget fashion - it's another surface to put stickers on!! Right kids? 8)

"probably spin out at 30mph or so on off-road descents. fast enough"

Make that more like 20 mph with a 32-11T gear selection
Maybe not properly spun out, but spun out enough not to be able to put any power down at your ideal spinning speed and not feeling much resistance

James - depends if you can spin. Note we are discussing 36 chain ring
Normal pedalling cadence for me is about 25 mph in 36/11. 30 mph is something like 110 cadence or so or so - easily achievable.

My missus runs 32/11 as top gear on her commuter (her choice - I dunno why) - 27mph top speed on the speedo

If you like a slow cadence then 36/11 might not be high enough. WE have topped out at well over 30mph on the tandem - but spinning like a frog in a blender

I disagree that bash rings are for fashion. I have one fitted to my hardtail and it serves two very useful purposes:

It helps keep the chain on without the need for a full chain device.
It prevents damage to the chainset.

If you looked at my e-13 bashring you would see multiple areas of damage that would otherwise have been inflicted on a large chainring. Then again I use my "XC" bike for everything from all day epics in the Scottish mountains to trail centre days at the rockiest centres in Scotland and anything in between.

As for ratios I would suggest 22-32 with an e-13 bash (36 or 38 tooth). I find this is a good ratio for uphill, mile crunching and gunning it downhill.

36/22, with an 11-34 cassette. all the gears you'll ever need offroad. unless your doing the kamikaze

bashgaurd seems to serve a purpose as there are plenty of dents and scrapes in it even though I don't remember most of them happening.

3 bashrings on the tandem 🙂 We put 7 hits on one of them on its first outing with them. Saved a long walk back.

I changed to 36/22 and wipped the teeth off my old ring with the jigsaw before finishing neatly with a file, free bashring..

The big ring had lost a lot of teeth from catching rocks on more trialsy/techy stuff and i couldn't see why i should buy and ruin another.

Only reason i wouldn't do this is if i did lots of road miles, which i generally avoid

Horse Poo! A big ring is required if the speed you want to go can't be acheived on the middle ring, I was in the big ring (44) for about 80% of Llandegla yesterday.

Somehow I think you are missing the point here. A bash ring is useful where you are likely to beat the crap out of your outer chainring, not exactly likely at llandegla.
However in the peak I have seen a few outer chainrings get stuffed.
My meta has a double and bash (including chainguide) mainly because its useful and its fit and forget. And yes it has saved on buying a new outer ring on more than one occasion

I don't understand the point of "you need a big ring to go fast"

Are these people pedalling hard at over 30mph offroad? cos you can hit 30mph pedalling on 36/11 and 25 mph is easy

double and bash, pah you bunch of lightweights, I ride 32t single front with bash on a 36lb Heckler (although I have just bought a double chainset!)

I manage on 32/22 When I spin out I'm normally ready to hit the brakes or the hill is steep enough that to go any faster I just let go of them. Never seem to hold anybody up on the descents, except for on the road.

Have broken a couple of big rings over the last few years, one on rocks/fallen logs and the other was hit by a flying rock. When I ride routes that are often ridden by others you can always see the chainring marks gouged into softer rocks and logs. Also the bash stops me cutting the backs of my leg if I come off.

Would never fit a big ring on a bike now unless I was riding on tarmac.

Not being rude, but there is some B0ll0cks spouted on this forum! All this crap about "needing" a 44T chainring on a mountain bike offroad. You sit down with a calculator and work out your gear ratios. You will find that if you're running a 36T ring with a bashguard, that in the 9th cog on the back your gear ratio is still taller than 7th on the back with a 44T ring on the front! How many times OFFROAD do you use 8th and 9th on the cassette with the chain on the outer chainring? Honestly now. Onroad on a big downhill, then yes fair enough, but I've never used 8th and 9th on the cassette with a 44T ring up front EVER!

36/11 = 3.2727
44/14 = 3.1429

Have a triple on my hardtail cos I intended it to be able to be used for a bit of road commuting (job permitting) as well as an XC bike. My Full sus bike has a 24/36 bash setup though, and the bash gets used! Was riding in the Peaks the other weekend, don't know what trail as it was my first time up there, but this trail we rode I had to walk a few bits cos it was so technical (hey I'm no skills god, nor was I on a trials bike!), but to even ride quite a lot of it the bash guard was getting used quite a lot. Suggest that some of the people that don't see the need for a bashguard at all would have shouldered the bike down the entire trail!

Oh, and FWIW, bashguard is generally a bigger requirement on a full sus bike IMO, especially if you've got a fair bit of travel as the BB gets far closer to objects when the suspension compresses than is obviously possibly on a Hardtail.

22/36, with a single roller chain device to keep it all in place when playing rough. 12-28 cassette for local stuff, 11-32 for trail centres with short cage rear mech. I've never used 8th or 9th on either. Thinking of losing the bash guard as is pretty superfluous.

Big bike more like 38 single ring, MRP System 1 and a 13-27 road block (OK I'm showing off now..)

I've just ditched the big ring on my HT and fitted a lovely Dark cycles bash ring. I started off running a 36/22 & 11-34 but have since moved back to a conventional 32/22 & 11-32 as most of our riding up here is pretty steep. My set up is still at the experimental stage bit i still reckon its all i need for offroad.

A big ring is useful. It can cope with losing a few teeth. ONly get a bash if you ride relly technical

IMHO

Another benefit of the bash guard - it'll last forever, more or less.

so in order to have a bash ring you should only be riding really technical stuff? biggest load of rubbish ive ever heard

Jeez Bomberman - I've ridedn all those trails he said for years ned never needed a bashring. ALways ridden triple and never had a problem despite rocks bashing off everywhere.

Peak is rocky, but doesn't have wheeltraps where you'd bottom out yer bike.

Sounds to me like he had a spot of bad luck.

Like I said, the big ring can tolerate loosing some teeth. Also would a bash ring stop the spider bending out of shape? I doubt it. If the impact was hard enough to do that then the spider is the weakness, not the ring.

One of the main reasons I went to two and a bash was that I was getting chain suck in the middle ring when things got claggy and never really used the big ring, figured shortening the chain was the best way forward and may as well swap the big ring for a bash, works fine and I`ve never felt I needed more gears.

The ring I took off did have teeth missing, chain clatters a lot less too.

I've ridedn all those trails he said for years ned never needed a bashring.

Did you need front suspension? Disc brakes? Nobbly tyres?

The big ring certainly helped drop others on the flats or descents (and uphills sometimes)

If you don't use the big ring then lose it. But I ride in the Peak all the time and never considered getting rid of it.

All IMHO of course. If you want to fire more cheap pop shots then go ahead, I don't care (obviously I do) but he's asking for an opinion and I'm giving mine based on 10 years of riding in the area along with many others.

I have just bought a double SLX , i looked at my all mountain bike , the outside ring is completely chewed and chunked up , the teeth are bent .... i thought "when was the last time i shifted onto this ring ?"

So going the double was a no-brainer .

Also you dont have to be hitting stuff with your big ring to wreck it .... 95% of the damage to mine is from flicked up rocks.

Do you ride down scree slopes? Only way I've broken teeth off is by riding into things very hard.
The main advantage of bashguards is that the look damn cool.

My Trance has quite a low BB and I ride trails that are slightly more technical than some bland trail centre in North Wales that apparently has a black route. Plus I rarely use the big ring since I stopped doing XC races around a muddy field so I have a nice, lightweight bash guard instead.

The possibility of bending teeth on the big ring is one less thing to worry about and luckily the having a bash guard fitted doesn't impact on the riding of my fellow riders, though it gives the STW moaners something to bleat about.

Some of the trails i ride are very rocky , and here in oz its as dry as .... so it doesnt take much to flick some up when belting down hardpack singletrack .... i even have chunks out of my crank arms 😯 Thats why i have went the el-cheapo SLX too , no point munching XTR's !

What part of oz are you in. I'm down tassie.

I ride the Peaks with 36/22 and bash. Only ever run out of gears on road but have plenty of battle damage to bash guard to justify its existence. My original outer ring had quite a few missing teeth, mostly from rocks flying up and hitting it rather than it hitting static rocks. I guess this doesn't happen if you're only going at a "steady" pace 😉

Where I was VERY thankful for the bash was riding in the Sierra Nevada. I "needed" all my suspension, my disc brakes, my wide bars, my bash ring and all the other great stuff that helps me ride faster and harder without breaking me (too often!) or the bike bits that - as many posts on STW point out - are stupidly expensive at the mo'

CrazyLegs - you're roadie-ly wrong IMO 🙂

[i]"Bashguards have their place but that place is on full on DH bikes."[/i]

What absolute twaddle!

I haven't got a big ring on any of my bikes.

Triple chainsets have their place - on touring bikes.

And if you're so bothered about weight saving - why do you use such long stems? ;-P

Riding mostly woods, up and down. natural type terrain with trips to lakes occasional trail centres.
Running 22/32 11-26. its all I need.
If Ineed a higher gear I free wheel (if i want to go faster on the road, I ride a road bike)
I can get up any thing ridable with my lowest gear.
Bash guard good for for getting over logs
A nice short chain is another benefit
To me its not weight sving/ style, its what works

I have double and bash on my geared Inbred and my Remedy 66. I hardly ever use a big ring, the only place I can make use of one is on Tarmac, there are no hills offroad in North Wilts where I'd be going fast enough to need or want one, and, as a number of people have pointed out, it's rocks flung up by the front tyre that does the damage. Round here lots of the trails have big chunks of limestone either wash out of banks or old dry-stone walls, and some can be the size of a soup plate. When you go over at speed the back edge flicks up and slams into the rings. I've wrecked a RF big ring like that, the impact lifted me clean off the ground and nearly over the bars. My bash rings have both got impact damage to them, and I don't ride [i]that[/i] fast. It happened with my old SuperVee, with barely four inches of travel, and left a thumbnail sized dent in the downtube, as well as a broken XTR big ring, and the 'bred and Remedy are both 6" bikes, and I go faster on those. Those who ride triples without problems, fine, just don't sneer at riders who find a 2x9 with bash more than adequate. We're not racing, for Heaven's sake!

A nice short chain is another benefit

+1 for that. 22/32 and 11-32 running on a 105 rear mech. Nice high chain tension, never had chainsuck. Shifts great. Climbs lovely in 22:22 with a great straight chainline. I know cos I was grovelling up Jack Bridge for the 2nd time yesterday afternoon and looking down at it.

With a long arm mech and enough chain to run a big ring, it'd be wrapped up backwards and flopping around.

Not being rude, but there is some B0ll0cks spouted on this forum! All this crap about "needing" a 44T chainring on a mountain bike offroad. You sit down with a calculator and work out your gear ratios. You will find that if you're running a 36T ring with a bashguard, that in the 9th cog on the back your gear ratio is still taller than 7th on the back with a 44T ring on the front!

He's right, you know.
I sat down and worked out all the gear ratios before fitting a 36 + bash to my Pitch. Basically, in 36/11 you loose top gear off a 44/11 and bottom gear off a 32/34. (It's not quite that exact, but near enough)
In use, I found it easier (which I wasn't expecting) because I spent less time switching between middle and big rings. With the 36 it puts me in a more useful gear more of the time, and then I just bang down to the granny for long climbs
I reckon I might get more even wear on my cassette as I'm using all the cogs, not mainly the middle few as I was before, when I rarely used the top 3-4 gears....
I only span out once at Afan on a long fireroad descent on W2 when racing someone, and I'm a big gear lover!
I'm thinking of doing it to my other geared bike when I run out of big rings, but I've got at least 2 spares right now
🙂

Fitted a bash gaurd for a France trip last year, with a 22/32, it's still on.

I suppose the only time you would miss it would be if your riding with guys still running with one, I do and it make's them no faster, up or down.

So I'm gona stick with it.

each to their own I suppose

Running a 24/36 with an 11-32 cassette and double and bash for the last 3 years. Found an e-thirteen bash that is [i]just[/i] bigger than the chain. Works just fine for me and vindicates what mboy calculated above.... and I wont be changing.... it does nicely for all my riding.

*puts hand up

Bashring user

I bought a bash ring yesterday for my Pitch (partly 'cause it has an XT touring chainset on it and the mech won't clear the 48... or is it a 46?)

I have had a DRS on the Patriot and that gives a nice and secure feeling for the alps, though I didn't actually bash it.

Its probably worth pointing out that on wet logs they also serve as a nice sliding surface when you can't clear the log with the chainset; you know... so you don't get that 'dead stop' feeling as you spike the ring into the log?

I've just re-fitted my raceface bash ring to the pitch, not sure wether to fit the 36T ring I have kickign about or just leave the 32 on, as I never seem to run out of gears when "pootling" around trail centres 😆

Just a quick question, when shortenign the chain on a full suss, whats the general rule of thumb, is it BIG/BIG + 2 links (what I used on my HT) or is there another method?

Anyone who hasn't felt the need to go 2 ring / bash yet, needs to move to a part of the country where there's some interesting riding 😉

Blazin-saddles - Member

IMO a big ring is only required for racing or your doing a fair bit of road.

Horse Poo! A big ring is required if the speed you want to go can't be acheived on the middle ring, I was in the big ring (44) for about 80% of Llandegla yesterday.

And I bet you spent most of the time in the middle of the cassette using gear ratios that are available using the middle ring and all of the cassette???

 

Just a quick question, when shortenign the chain on a full suss, whats the general rule of thumb, is it BIG/BIG + 2 links (what I used on my HT) or is there another method?

Big/big +2 like you said, but you also need to allow for chain growth, so as a precaution, do the above with the rear suspension fully compressed, i.e, air out of the shock or remove the spring. This guarantees that you won't rip the rear mech off at full travel if you happen to be in the wrong gear!!!

Bash ring user for 4 years now 22/32/bash that 2 years after all my friends (because I was too poor to buy one) and way before it became fashionable. I just really cant see the use of a big ring... Unless you use your mtb on the road. And even so it has to be flat or downhill roads.
Steep Rock/tech playground = double + Bash
Non steep non tech playground (à la lordswood) = SS (in my opinion)
Inbetween the two you are not going to be on the big ring anyway. Plus as brant say (crap I am going to need a mouthwash for that) shorter chains is much nicer.
To be honest I would only see the use of the big ring on a DH bike...

Cheers 2hats, chain fettling here we come

I have run a steel hardtail in the lakes & stanes for the last few years. I changed mine to a double & bash (E13) purely from a financial perspective. I was sick of buying new big chainrings. I could guarentee that on the first ride with new chainring i would have a couple of teeth mangled. Not such a big deal but it got to the point after a month or so where i couldnt trust the big ring to put any power into it as it would slip due to loss of teeth.

As i said 3 yrs ago i changed to bash guard. I havent really missed the big ring and tbh i set up the fron mech so IF i do any events i can put the big ring back on with a longer chain in 5 mins. All the marks on the bash guard and my peace of mind justify my decision imo.

I've worn out the big ring first on my last two XTR chainsets. I don't think I'll be replacing it with a bashring any time in the near future. 😕

I suppose it depends absolutely on where and how you ride. I'm certainly not saying "I'm right, you're wrong" as it's all opinion and preference anyway, but for what it's worth I wouldn't want to be without my big ring - I ride most of the time in it and usually in the upper gears at the back as well to allow me to keep speed up. The fact that it's the big ring that gets changed most often supports this. Part of it's becuase I don't get out much and want to train hard when I do. I suspect the other big difference is that I ride where the hills tend to be short and fast - it would certainly be a different story in a hillier part of the country, which is where a lot of other posters seem to ride.

Each to his own though, so please don't shoot me down for expressing what is just my opinion.

I currently use 26/36/bash set up with a 11-34T cassette. Which works perfectly for. 26:34T is lower enough to winch up most stuff. If I can't get up in that it'll be quicker to push. The 36T ring helps on a certain local pedally offroad descent.

Doing the math, you lose the top 1.5 and bottom 1.5 gears (that make sense?)

Found 22/32/Bash fine but not quite perfect. The old bashring I took off before fitting the new set up was absolutely mullered. Lumps taken out of the polycarb. It did get a whole summer of alpine abuse though.
Would run 22/32/Bash again though, if I lived somewhere steeper.

Doing the math

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