[Closed] Anyone else not have much time for David Millar?

Trolling along.

I loves him.

Can't stand the bloke. So glad he is out of politics.

I've met him twice and both times he's been eloquent,intelligent and comes across very well..I likes him! 8)

Its illegal to call him a cheat in here because " he admitted it & served his suspension"
deceive your fans once & you are always a cheat in my book

*dons flameproof bibshorts*

You read his book?

i suggest you do. He is one of the most intelligent voices in the peloton to me.

He is one of the most intelligent voices in the peloton to me.

Ditto.

Very good at the commentary as well, I thought.

Oh, and would love to see him up the ranks of the UCI to sort them out!

I didn't think much of him till I read his book. Since then I've watched a few video clips and read some of the article he has written on the whole WADA/USADA subject. I think he seems like a decent chap and Is originally from Forres close to where I come from.

I like him too! He come across as intelligent and genuinely remorseful.

Yeah people keep asking him to run for uci president and i think he might just be taking them seriously 🙂 would be fantastic for the sport IMO

still making my mind up, but what I have seen/heard of him (little to be honest) in Blood Sweat and Gears...he seemed pretty cool.

Book worth reading?

Great book.

I likes.

I likes.
I want him as head of the UCI me.

somebody posted up a link a while back to an article by nicholas roche. I've lost the link but the salient text was:

If you look at all the riders recently who have been caught and admitted doping, some people are saying it's great that these riders are helping the sport. But saying, 'I'm sorry, I was doping from this year to that year but I'm not going to do it again and I'm cleaner than clean... I'm helping anti-doping because I talk to kids about it,' or whatever, that's a load of bull. That's not helping anti-doping.

Helping anti-doping is saying. 'Okay I doped. I got it from this doctor. These are the riders that I met in the waiting room. This is how it's done. These are the new products that are in the peloton that are not yet detectable. These are the products that we use to mask the ones that are detectable. This product does this, this product does that. This is how we beat the test.' That's helping anti-doping.

[url= http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/nicolas-roche-if-you-dope-dont-blame-anyone-else-its-your-choice-admit-it-3257272.html ]ah, here we go[/url]

Also didn't have much time for him until i read his book. Reckon Millar is a good guy who's trying to put things right. He's done a lot for the anti doping cause through his actions with WADA and Slipstream.

I can see the Roche's point but for Millar to do that publicly would have meant the end of his career in cycling. I suspect he's been able to do more for the anti-doping cause by being able to work within the peloton rather than just being a voice in the wilderness.

Read most of his book but gave up on it as I realised that I just didn't connect with him as an author or as a person. . I wonder whether he would have confessed to doping if he hadn't been found out? He now rides for a team headed up by Jonathan Vaughters whose own record is one of past doper. Millar could have done much more by naming and shaming but he didn't and chose a path that kept him in the peloton and didn't rock the boat. Whether the sport is better with him still playing a role, I'm undecided. His path was one of choosing to dope in a sport of dopers. What he did wasn't in any shape or form evil or terrible but what he did do was gain an unfair advantage on the clean riders and has continued to benefit from that. Like Hincapie, Zabriskie or Leipheimer, I don't recall a rush to pay back ill gotten winnings.

for Millar to do that publicly would have meant the end of his career in cycling

Yup. That's why that course of action is really taking a stand, changing the machine from the inside is what people tell themselves when they trot off to work for starbucks. Haven't read his book yet and actually like him in interviews and doing commentary. That said he's done damn well out of being supposedly poacher turned gamekeeper.

As for the fact he's a nice guy, well I'd wager many of history's villains were pleasant enough one to one.

There are some very unforgiving people out there. I just hope that none of you ever put a foot wrong in life, regret it and expect forgiveness!

Just to throw in a tangent, I really can't stand Contador.

It's a p*ss take he's able to race so soon after his suspension and win the Vuelta.

Cheating bar steward....

So, once a crim, always a crim? Have I stumbled onto the letters page of The Daily Excess?

Definitely one of the most eloquent and often most interesting voices in the pro peloton. That said, I really can't stand the bloke-I read his book and it make me dislike him even more than before I read it. I find it very hard to feel and great sympathy for him. Yes he was manipulated by his team into doping to an extent, but did they manipulate him into an egotistic money grabber too? I'm sure he's changed now, I know that his doping conviction left him with debts that he only recently cleared, but he really hasn't done too badly from the whole thing has he? Part owner of the Garmin team etc

Millar? cheated,then did his best to avoid a ban just like Hamilton,Landis.So he might be eloquent,witty,intelligent but that just makes him a witty,eloquent,intelligent cheat.

Millar? cheated,then [b]did his best to avoid a ban[/b] just like Hamilton,Landis.

Really? In what way?

Scaredypants +1

Remorseless CHEAT
Remorseful CHEAT
Charming CHEAT
Dead CHEAT
The one thing that links them all in any way that matters is that they all cheated in cycling.
That said I'm still in awe of Armstong, Millar is a brilaint tactician, Contador is just ++++ing great, never liked Pantani.

What would you have done in his shoes?

Gave up the sport you love, the job you love, the life you love?

Or would you, with all the pressure put on him when he was young and the knowledge that pretty much everyone else was doing, perhaps done the same?

More respect for him than for Lance

Only ever bought one bit of team cycling kit, a team Cofidis strip after DM won the world champs. Only wore it a handful of times before the cheater got dragged away from his cosy dinner with David Brailsford discussing his "preparations" for the next races to have his room turned over by the police. Dopers should be out for life, not two years. Once a crim, always a crim. Someone clean didn't get a career because he did.

Out of interest I'd read his book, but I wouldn't buy it, he'd just be benefiting from cheating again. I was given Tyler Hamilton's as a gift, I suppose someone might want to swap? Free Cofidis jersey and socks if you do, hardly worn.

The guy was a liar and a cheat in real life, so why on earth do you expect his book to be the truth - it's just what you want to hear so it sells well and he gets to stay in his career. He's hardly going to write 'I'm still on EPO, just a lot more careful with the doses to stay below the test threshold.'

Cant stand him. He thought he was the shizz and wasnt.

I read his book, exactly what i expected but disliked him even more after I read it. Sets himself up as the party going maverick then expects us to feel sorry for him as the book turns all serious after his arrest.

Cheeky b'stard even complains in his book about Ullrich drafting at the world TT champs when Millar was EPO'd up to the max.The book isnt even that intersting if you have read other books on doping. As a biog its just boring.

Disconcertingly vague when mentioning his doping.

Meh

I know his brother, Windy.

I have no problem forgiving people and their mistakes. I get slightly annoyed when they make a crust from having made those mistakes and getting a subsequently bigger following and press attention. Also if I were to engage in a sustained mispractice then no I don't think I would expect to be forgiven for just going back and picking up my old job (albeit without engaging in the previous infringement)

Someone clean didn't get a career because he did.

Mate is a former olympian and it;s this part that drives her absolutely potty, the sacrifices she made and that other sportspeople make are wiped out by someone cheating.

What would you have done in his shoes?

The everyone else was doing it why shouldn't I? argument hasn't held up since at least the second world war. I'm not saying I would have made better decisions but I would like to think I;d sink the doping ship and all aboard if I were to "help clean up the sport"

EDIT: What does Tygart have to say about Millar? Could be pretty enlightening.

I like Contador, he certainly livened up the Vuelta last year.

I don't like Contador, he certainly livened up the Vuelta last year.

I have a lot of time for him. Yes, he cheated, but having read his book I see it a bit differently. Plus I genuinely believe he is a reformed character and has the best interests of cycling at heart.

I just finished his book yesterday. He's got a genuinely interesting story to tell, but he does have a certain arrogance about him.

Plenty of strong opinions seemed to have been formed well before reading his book and further reinforced following its reading. Did you miss those pages regarding him fighting his demons over racing clean or become "professional" and dope? It is kinda the point of the whole book.

He could have served his time, done nothing and possibly doped again. He has shown genuine remorse, become engaged where it can make a difference and helped found a genuine anti-doping team. I don't believe canonisation and getting mega-bucks was a game plan he devised when resuming his career.

As for the Olympics, the original BOA stance was noble but why limit yourself when Kazakstahn and others have no such principles e.g. Vinokourov.

Haters going to hate as they say, and this is your thread. My respect for Millar has increased even further having read Tyler Hamilton's incredible story. Millar will be the first to tell you he was a doper. He needs no reminding of that.

I preferred him when he was a man.

I read his book & it didn't diminish my distrust of him at all - then again, I'm of the Nicholas Roche school of thought mentioned above. For him to have the UCI Presidency I would expect him to have to come clean with he whole truth at the point he was caught.

Has he shown remorse - yes.

Has he told the whole truth since being caught - no.

Has he disassociated himself from other known dopers - no.

Would he have confessed if they hadn't caught him - unlikely.

Has he damaged the sport he 'loves' - yes.

Has he continued to earn a considerable sum since returning - probably.

IMHO, the penalties for doping are too lenient and, as such, are not a sufficient deterrent. If Millar (or any other drugs cheat) had been told he had a 10 year ban but it can be reduced in stages by naming other doping riders, team officials & doctors involved maybe, just maybe, the sport would've got cleaner, quicker.

His book was good.
His cheating was very bad.
His book wouldn't have been so good if he hadn't cheated.
I feel like a sucker for buying it knowing he was a cheat.
At least I read the LA books in good faith...

I take the point that Millar does go on about the 'omertà' but even he wouldn't talk about anything other than his own doping and certainly no more than pseudonyms about who supplied him. That said I like him and think he could be excellent at the UCI

For me a better book by Jeremy Whittle (for it is he) would be ''Bad Blood'.

There's a stronger narrative in Tyler Hamilton's book IMHO. Just read David Walsh's latest and that was piss poor..

As others said, if he's serious about cleaning up the sport then he'll start naming and shaming....I can understand if he wants to leave it until he retires but he's not really serious about cleaning out cycling unless he gives the UCI, WADA etc the inside info....at the moment all he is is a vocal former drugs cheat.
In his book he states his intention to help young riders stay away from temptation, while this is admirable his words and actions don't yet tally up...best way to keep the youngsters away from dodgy DRs and bullying team mates is to out those influential dopers...but he hasn't yet so for the time being his actions appear to be self serving.

He's got a genuinely interesting story to tell

He's got a genuinely interesting story to sell. Let's not forget this is a book written for financial gain.
And any mention of him taking part in the Olympics is okay because Vino did, well then we're back to it's okay to cheat because everyone is doing it....surely.

I was riding between whaley bridge and buxton a few years ago and he stopped /slowed down and chatted to me. Nice bloke, not all pro roadies out training would do that!

As others said, if he's serious about cleaning up the sport then he'll start naming and shaming....I can understand if he wants to leave it until he retires but he's not really serious about cleaning out cycling unless he gives the UCI, WADA etc the inside info....at the moment all he is is a vocal former drugs cheat

I don't disagree with this, but until a few months ago anyone who accused others of doping usually ended up with being sued (successfully) by that person. And if you went to the UCI with information about someone doping, then you ended up getting investigated and sued yourself. When Landis accused LA, his claims were dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter junkie, and even after the USADA report came out there were plenty on here saying "there is no proof other than from a load of old druggies". You couldn't really win.

As for Contador, the CAS said in their summary that whilst there was no evidence to support Contadors argument of contaminated meat, there was also no evidence to support WADA's claim that he took Clenbutamol. It was most likely that the positive came from a contaminated legal supplement. Does that mean is is and has always been clean? Probably not!

[img] [/img]

If anyone here was riding Pro or Semi Pro or Cat2's around that era of Millar, then they know just how easy it was and how prevelent it was to get PED's.
There was an unwritten rule that no one talked about it but just did it. Some call it omerta, I call it axceptance.

Though I'm all for reform, all for open communication be it now or then. It's how humans work.

What I'm not keen on are organisations who claim to regulate that organisation whilst openly projecting another version of the truth.
But you find that in all walks of life.

Best we can do now is forgive, but not forget.

People make mistakes.

People change in some respects, as they grow older.

I'm not a Millar fan, his book helped me understand his particular story.

As I don't really [i]follow[/i] or [i]idolize[/i] any particular athletes or teams.
I feel fairly chilled about what Millar has done. The being caught and fessing up and now trying to put something back into the sport.
Furthermore, I would think he knows that whatever he does now, will never remove the stain. But he's doing stuff anyway.

Probably the most I could get worked up about his doping days. Was that me would have displaced someone on the podium, who was clean.

253 max hr 😯

Oh and this...

I don't disagree with this, but until a few months ago anyone who accused others of doping usually ended up with being sued (successfully) by that person. And if you went to the UCI with information about someone doping, then you ended up getting investigated and sued yourself. When Landis accused LA, his claims were dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter junkie, and even after the USADA report came out there were plenty on here saying "there is no proof other than from a load of old druggies". You couldn't really win.

... is spot on. The UCI have a lot to answer for. I'd be happy to see Lance go unpunished if his testimony brought about a change of guard at the top levels.

"Now THAT's telling it how it is should be

ah, here we go"

I have to laugh at you quoting Nicolas Roche in this context!
Is his Dad going to come clean?

I seem to remember Stephen Roche was one of the most vitriolic attackers of Paul Kimmage when he tried to blow the lid on doping in the late 80s and early 90s!!

I read his book and all I feel is indifference towards Millar.
There is a feeling of being short-changed in that he tells only what he wants to tell and there is so much more he could have told - but didn't. This stance of self-preservation doesn't mix for this kind of book - but you compare Hamilton's and Millar's books and the difference is night and day.

doping in the late 80s and early 90s!!

coff coff ... Indurain.

Has anybody spotted the references to iDave in the book? Yes, the man himself is in there.

Is this the same Millar that is apparently irked by the fact LA is going to tell his 'version' of the truth in an interview with Oprah, yet appears to have done quite well out of a book where he narates his 'version' of the truth?

Has anybody spotted the references to iDave in the book? Yes, the man himself is in there.

Did Millar get a refund? 😉

No, I think he was quite happy with the fitness advice he got.

I enjoyed his book, but I don't like his tweets.

now Steven Roche ---- there is a real arse of a bloke-- met him in 98 in ireland --right ego maniac-- full of self importance--in a small wee cafe giving it the big i am to uninterested tourists !

Someone clean didn't get a career because he did.

He was successful before he doped, he doped to maintain his level of performance throughout the season.

I think he is intelligent, eloquent, and a gifted rider, but also that he's arrogant and narcissistic (long-boarding around the streets of Monaco, who could not think you were an @rse....) Reading his book I actually think he is bipolar- his behaviour is marked by massive peaks and troughs.

In fairness to Millar, with the exception of him not criticising any suspected/convicted current riders in the peloton (Contador etc), he is pretty open about his own doping - appearing on Hardtalk etc is fair bit more cutting than Oprah's going to be.

Appreciate he does go on a bit, but I have more respect for Garmin for their openness, realism and honesty, than I do for Sky or any other team.

Either way, he's an amazing rider and tactician - winning the World Champs in 2011 was a large part down to his reading of the race.

DM's and JV's attitude seems genuine, Garmin had a no-needles policy long before the UCI. Their learn-from-the-old-guard attitude is more mature and productive than Sky's knee-jerk witch hunt (which was undermined by letting Sean Yates claim to be leaving with his head held high for medical reasons..)

Well he made a right arse of himself in the Independent today.

While 20 of the 21 podium finishes in Lance Armstrong's Tour de France era have been tainted with doping scandals, Millar name-checked the winners of the last three Grand Tours – Ryder Hesjedal in the 2012 Giro d'Italia, Bradley Wiggins in the Tour de France and Alberto Contador in the Vuelta a España – as three riders he believed to be clean.

From [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/cycling-its-now-one-of-the-worlds-cleanest-sports-says-david-millar-8458763.html ]Sunday Independant[/url]

He's a sycophantic gobshite who was caught in the act.

He made more from his book about his doping than many a clean rider has ever in their career to paraphrase Nicole Cooke