[Closed] Anyone else fallen foul of the Loch Damh dogs?

That's nasty. Worth reporting IMO could have been really horrible if you son had fallen off and been jumped on.

Yeah, they chased me and a friend a month or so ago. Didn’t hang around and was glad I wasn’t with the family.

That's horrendous, definitely report to police Scotland.

Lovely day for it though...

[img] [/img]

(The ride, not being bitten)

Is there a way of reporting stuff without hanging on the non emergency number for hours on end?

Online form or something?

We are planning on doing that or the lollipop with the kids on Friday. Will keep an eye out as one of them isn’t fond of dogs at the best of times.

Thanks

Please report this!

Blake have you done them both before?
Would be interested in views on how kid friendly the lollipop is.
Today was a bit much for the kids TBH, they were knackered from Wolftraxx, then a wild cycle&swim, then a run yesterday
Too much hikeabike today. I loved the main Torridon Annat& Achnaschellach route but then love cycling up hill. Guessing the lollipop is a hardish route for kids as well?

Ok..had a quick Google. No lollipop for the kids.

Kid friendly I'd say Kenmore to applecross n back.

You sound like you have had a full week.

No haven’t done either of them. We were thinking of the lollipop with the eldest who is pretty fit And used to a hard and long days riding. With an exit strategy at coulags if it was to much.

The youngest would ride up from annat and ride back down again with the other half.

Or

we would do a family ride along loch damh. The other half has just seen your message and is thinking that it wouldn’t be a great idea, as we would scare the youngest for life if he was to get attacked by dogs. Is there a way around them?

Or

the traditional loop with just me and the eldest. And the other two go and do some bouldering at Torridon.

We did applecross to kenmore and back the other day. The youngest found it hard going up the hill as the singletrack was rutted in places and he kept getting pedal strikes on his 24 inch bike. He did enjoy it on the way down though.

From the FIDO (Fighting Irresponsible Dog Ownership) website ......

If a dog attacks you, your dog or another animal, you should report the incident to the police. If the attack is on your dog or another animal and you are told by the police that nothing can be done, do not take no for an answer - get an incident number and the contact details of the Dog Legislation Officer (DLO) for that area. DEFRA advises that every police service should have a trained police DLO, but if this is not possible, every police service must have agreed procedures in place to gain access to a police DLO in order to facilitate this guidance.

The police may pursue your case under Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 (DDA) and a court could judge that a dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures a person, or
behaves in a way that makes a person worried it might injure them - even if it's in the dog owner's own home or garden, or
it injures another animal, or
the owner of the other animal has reasonable apprehension that they could be injured if they tried to stop the dog attacking their animal.

Any person found guilty of owning a dog that is dangerously out of control may face a fine of up to £1000 and/or imprisonment, and may be banned from owning a dog in the future, however, it is important to realise that the DDA tends only to be used in the most serious of cases, and so therefore it is vital that another piece of legislation, Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871, be considered at the same time - particularly in cases where a dog attacks another domestic pet or livestock. A complaint should be made, and under Section 2 of the Dogs Act, civil proceedings brought before a Magistrates' Court. This can be done by the police, local authorities, or individual members of the public. If the Magistrate is satisfied that the complaint is justified they can make any order they feel appropriate to require the owner to ensure that the dog is kept under proper control, or in extreme cases, destroyed. This is regardless of whether the dog is in a public or private place, or with or without its owner. When considering bringing an irresponsible dog-owner to task under Section 2 of the Dogs Act, it is always worth contacting your local council too. Because this piece of legislation is enforceable by councils, some do take a proactive role in dealing with dogs that may be dangerous, and may have a track record in obtaining control orders for individual dogs that attack other dogs and are not kept under proper control.

Please report this! That dog needs to be dealt with.

When I was a kid, I was bitten by a dog close to where I lived... I was on my bike, it jumped a fence and bit me in the calf. I managed to scare it off. My parents did not report it, the dog's owner was an old lady with no-one else but the dog for company. six months later that same dog attacked another kid, tore up her face, and she lost one of her ears.

If I had been in your position, I would have kicked the living dayligths out of that dog, made sure it did not bite any innocent people again.

Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 (DDA) and a court could judge that a dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures a person, or
behaves in a way that makes a person worried it might injure them

How the hell can these dogs be a known problem that is continuing given the legislation? Either people are not reporting incidents or it's too far down the Police priority/resource list.

To be fair, in the past they’ve been a bit barky but weren’t too intimidating. Seems things have got worse. Agree it should be reported as it was a worrying when I went past, even if we didn’t get bitten. OP please do report.

As for kids and the lollipop loop...only if they’re tough and fit. It’s a big day with a lot of rough riding and plenty of pushing. Up the annat path to the stepping stones or the pass and back would be a good taster.

Are there any CX/hybrid friendly routes around Torridon?
We might stay on the way back from Lewis in a few weeks time

If I had been in your position, I would have kicked the living dayligths out of that dog,

That thought had crossed my mind in retrospect and I'm not sure it would have been a good idea. There were at least three dogs, one of which was trying to get me and the other boy. Had we stopped it would have turned into a proper, full on fracas which would really have upset the kids. It would have escalated to proper bites, blood, 3 dogs on one person, absolutely middle of nowhere with no owner in site and nobody else around to help. Either I would have got properly savaged or I would have had to beat it to death with a rock or strangle it whilst the other two had about me or the other kids.

Which, as said above, would have probably left a bigger, more negative imprint on the kids. And TBH, I'm not sure I would have been up to it. Would like to think so, but it's easy to say from behind the safety of my keyboard.

Will try an allocate an hour to sit on hold on 101 today.

Is there a way around them?

Yes indeed. The proper route goes down the east side of loch Damh. The dogs are very near the start (north end). You can bypass the whole loch by coming in from the "main" road on the south west corner of the Loch. But it would mean loads of road miles.

And the other two go and do some bouldering at Torridon.

Ooh, you don't fancy taking an afternoon to do the Cioch nose with me do you? "The diff to end all diffs"

PS, regarding the youngest on his 24" bike and Beinn Damh, I've done Finale, Alps, Dragons Back, Chalamain Gap, Ullswater East and loads of other stuff with the kids. The big one did the WHW four years ago. There is no way they'd do Beinn Damh again. (Though that's partly because they are knackered)

Seriously the OP needs to report this to the police. I was attacked by a farmers dog when I was 14, riding on a bridleway that went through a farm courtyard. I was bitten 6 times and needed hospital treatment, but it took about 10 years till I was comfortable being around dogs. My dad reported it too Calderdale police and seen as it wasn't the first complaint about the dog, they took it away and euthanized it.

Currently on hold being repeatedly told that I should just give up and look on the website and that if I want to speak to an advisor it will be subject to significant delay.

Ooh, you don’t fancy taking an afternoon to do the Cioch nose with me do you? “The diff to end all diffs”

Would love to but might be beyond my capabilities. We have only just started climbing and only have some shoes and some mats.

The big one did the WHW four years ago

Yes that inspired me to take the eldest on the same trip he did it a few years ago when he was 9. Must say the younger doesn’t have the same motivation or stamina as the eldest.

Also your Finale trip notes we are using as our guide for our trip in October assuming we can go.

There is no way they’d do Beinn Damh again.

Up the annat path to the stepping stones or the pass and back would be a good taster.

That might be a plan as I really fancy a family ride as the 4 of us don’t get to ride together that often.

If the dogs had bitten any of mine I'd be back with the .22 and dealt with both of them.

Only on hold for ten minutes, bonus.
Got an incident number, officer will be in touch....

Daern?

Where you staying by the way?

We are up at big sands as the kids insisted on a beach holiday. Though I think they had higher temperatures in mind.

Good. Been bitten by a dog while on bike; so firmly it remained clamped on for several yards. Still got scars. reported and dealt with pretty swiftly. Fine (I think) and compensation. Weirdly my companion that evening was then bitten by I think the same dog some years later. I think it was then put down.

Are there any CX/hybrid friendly routes around Torridon?

The route from the North into Lochs Clair and Coulin would be fine. Do it as an out and back, or descend into Achnashellach for a (very) big road return

Or just head out on the Diabaig road. You could even extend it to Craig.

Was it a Border Collie? They genuinely frighten me.... As pets (not working dogs) the owners never seem to be able to exert any kind of control around passing people. I've been bitten twice by that breed, first doing a school cross country run down a canal and then as an adult on an MTB.
My mates think they're a good judge of character 😉

@scotroutes - thanks for that. Most of our week on Lewis/Harris is following your suggestions !
You should get a commission from the tourist board
😉

Is the Kenmore-Applecross route doable on a CX/gravel bike?  Or is it more of proper MTB route?

Was it a Border Collie? They genuinely frighten me…. As pets (not working dogs) the owners never seem to be able to exert any kind of control around passing people.

I love dogs. Owned a couple over the years. I am very wary of collies though. Only dog that's ever bitten me was a collie. Cycling through a forest and a woman was standing talking to another with her collie off the lead, which ran over and bit me on the leg.

She, without apologising, told me the dog didn't like cyclists. I explained I didn't like being bitten. The remaining conversation centred around her belief that her right to walk her (dangerous) dog off the lead, trumped my, or others, right to cycle in the forest without being bitten.

Big sands in gairloch?

It's worth a road ride out past badachro to the bay or out to the lighthouse

I'll also, once again, recommend the route from Poolewe up to the Bad Bog, or even to Carnmore (though the latter develops into a MTB track)

I love dogs. Owned a couple over the years. I am very wary of collies though. Only dog that’s ever bitten me was a collie. Cycling through a forest and a woman was standing talking to another with her collie off the lead, which ran over and bit me on the leg.

She, without apologising, told me the dog didn’t like cyclists. I explained I didn’t like being bitten. The remaining conversation centred around her belief that her right to walk her (dangerous) dog off the lead, trumped my, or others, right to cycle in the forest without being bitten.

Had that exact same scenario with a Border Collie in the lakes, sounds like the same fanny that had that dog too. Only other time I've been bitten was cycling through a farm by, yes you guessed it, a BC. Managed to boot that one in the chops when it came back for a second bite.

Please report this! That dog needs to be dealt with.

You mean the owners. No dog is born a bad dog, they are raised that way.

Was it a Border Collie? They genuinely frighten me…. As pets (not working dogs) the owners never seem to be able to exert any kind of control around passing people.

Border Collies are the most amazing breed, they're so rewarding to work with, smart and have an incredible work ethic.

Like any dog, if they're trained well, given rules and boundaries they should have zero cause for anyone to worry about.

It's not the dog, the breed, or dogs in general. It's certain people who decide to own dogs that need dealing with.

This is coming from someone who has worked with a lot of dogs, trainers and owners. And rescued Collies.

OP - or anyone who's encountered these dogs at Loch Damph - please report them to the police. Next time it could be a lot worse.

Is the Kenmore-Applecross route doable on a CX/gravel bike? Or is it more of proper MTB route?

IME yes, but it wouldn't be ideal and maybe a proper CX portage required in a couple of spots. If you were going to do it on such a bike you could do it as a circuit with Belach Na Ba. Quite a big ride then but nice, always good to say you've ridden over the highest road in the UK.

@sctoroutes - cheers

Have you walked up Boasbheinn? Could we use the hybrid bikes to get in a bit closer from the Gairloch road side? I've wanted to walk up it since seeing it from the Horns of Alligin many years ago

I've not done Baosbheinn but I've cycled the track up to the south end of Loch na h-Oidhche a couple of times. The track is pretty good up to the boathouse at the north end of the loch and then deteriorates.

FWIW, Poca Buidhe is no longer a bothy, The estate locked it after it was getting trashed.

Quite a big ride then but nice, always good to say you’ve ridden over the highest road in the UK.

Not even close to being the highest road!

https://roadcyclinguk.com/sportive/13-highest-roads-ride-uk.html

Aye, after a couple of guys spent years and a chunk of their own money making it a lot nicer that the damp cave it was in the 80's/early 90's.

It's not the highest road. It's the biggest climb.

It’s not the highest road. It’s the biggest climb.

It's not, unless you're only counting passes.

It’s not the dog, the breed, or dogs in general. It’s certain people who decide to own dogs that need dealing with.

I've always put it down to (perhaps wrongly) most of them being taken from a working dog, nipping around the legs of the sheep was natural to them. Could be utter horseshit mind! 🙂

It’s not, unless you’re only counting passes.

I stand corrected. What are the bigger climbs?

One time I was riding in Italy on some new trails and I took a wrong turn and ended up in the courtyard of a farm. No joke, about 15 dogs of all shapes and size came out of a barn and started barking at me.

One was a f'ing great Rottie so I absolutely pooped myself, turned around and pedaled faster than Nino Schurter chasing the podium. I was then chased for about half a mile by a snarling collie who didn't stop snapping at my ankles until it got a face full of SPD cleat.

I’ve always put it down to (perhaps wrongly) most of them being taken from a working dog, nipping around the legs of the sheep was natural to them. Could be utter horseshit mind!

Dogs are smart enough to be trained the difference between nipping a sheep, and biting a human.

Usually with farm dogs the issue is a lack of exposure to people, so they can't tell the difference. I don't accept that as an excuse, if you let your dogs into your yard and folk walk through there - you need to make sure they're safe.

I stand corrected. What are the bigger climbs?

Great Dun Fell and Lowther Hill, according to the link I posted on the previous page. Though I can't see how they worked out Lowther Hill to have more ascent.

Please report this! That dog needs to be dealt with.

You mean the owners. No dog is born a bad dog, they are raised that way.

@Rickon: How dare you! I meant it exactly as I wrote it! As far as I know the owner of the dogs never bit anyone? Make sure that dog never bites any innocent bystander again! Then go after the owner, and make sure he understands what is involved in owning a dog.

Seriously, this is the kind of "Guns don't kill people, people do" stuff I thought we could all agree on was pure bollocks.

That *is* bollocks.

It is not the dogs fault. It's the owner.

The dog may well be destroyed if you report it, depending on the situation - as it is absolutely incredibly serious. You only have to be in fear for your life, you don't even need to be bitten.

What I'm saying is the dog has been allowed to act that way, either through a lack of exposure to people and situations or incorrect reinforced behaviours.

If you don't deal with the owner, it'll happen again and again. They need to be taught how to train their dogs, expose them to desensitise them to common situations and humans.

In all likelihood, the issue is the remoteness and sparse population where they live. Where interaction with people is very infrequent. Couple that with even more infrequent exposure to cyclists - and it's a recipie for issues.

The owner needs to be clearly shown that they need to have their dogs under control in situations the dogs cannot handle. This is as easy as using a long line and pegging them out.

Obviously desensitisation is the best way to deal with it, but it's not that simple when you live remotely.

Unfortunately, what could be an otherwise decent dog could be destroyed because the owner isn't acting in the public or the dogs best interests to keep them safe.

Great Dun Fell and Lowther Hill, according to the link I posted on the previous page. Though I can’t see how they worked out Lowther Hill to have more ascent.

Green Lowther has 600m of height difference from mennock to the top, what's bealach na ba?.

I answered my question a couple of weeks back of 'can you get from the lighthouse N of Big Sand round to Poolewe ? Yes, but don't take a Cx bike. Nice mini adventure.

Blakec

Just in case you see this but not your messages, check your messages😀

Great Dun Fell and Lowther Hill, according to the link I posted on the previous page. Though I can’t see how they worked out Lowther Hill to have more ascent.

I thought the link showed BnB to have more climb than either of those.

Lowther Hill - 279m

Great Dun Fell - 625m

Bealach na Ba - 626m

That's just off the Strava images though.

Not even close to being the highest road!

yep you're right, apparently it's only the 3rd highest in Scotland but the steepest in the UK. Either way it's a git of a climb.

The Kenmore / Applecross and back via Bealach Na Ba is now dead to me.

Depends on your definition of 'road'. Great Dun Fell and Lowther Hill are private roads (though you can cycle up them).

I thought the link showed BnB to have more climb than either of those.

Lowther Hill – 279m

Great Dun Fell – 625m

Bealach na Ba – 626m

That’s just off the Strava images though.

The Strava link for Lowther Hill doesn't include the first part of the climb to Wanlockhead, though whether that makes it higher in total I don't know. Most sources I looked at say Great Dun Fell is just higher, and comfortably so if you start from the valley floor rather than Knock village. Not that I've climbed any of them!

Full climb from mennock to green Lowther (slightly further on than Lowther hill) goes from 120m to 732, can't think of any even small undulations on the way up that would add to the 612m difference.

It's not as steep as BNB.

Many thanks for the Kenmore Applecross suggestion, did it today and it was indeed excellent. Much better than the Loch Damh route IMHO and a stack load easier despite being longer and with more climbing. The fact that it repeatedly goes up and down loads makes it much more kid friendly than Damh.

The Polis came and took a statement about the dugs and seem to taking action, which is cool.

Currently back in Laggan knackered and wondering about tomorrow.... Ardverikie, Corrieyairack or Ben Alder hmmmmm

Corrour.

Venison lorne sausage.

Job done.

DOH, too late. The missus decreed a rest day as we are all completely exhausted. I tried to get a post breakfast nap but failed, so unlocked the bike and nipped up Corrieyairack. 50km later I am now utterly spent.

Kids have voted Wolftraxx again for tomorrow, and I'm having scheming thoughts about tacking on the Ardverikie loop as well.....(. Sans enfants of course)

Have a spin up Dùn da làmh too.

Thanks for reporting it and glad the police seem to be taking action. Sounds like you’re having an excellent holiday.

I had this about 10 years ago up there. No long in and you get to the dogs, time it happened I came up to the dogs, and the guy was out in the middle of the loch. Dogs were right up growling. I'm no the best with dogs. Guy was shouting, just go on by while whistling at the dogs. I got by fine, but it was brutal. Properly shitting myself.

Not really on at all. Doesn't sound like much has changed.

ps yeah was border collies back then.

No one claiming its all your fault for not knowing how to behave around dogs? A first for a dog thread on here.

😆

Can we please have one thread without someone antagonising. Ffs...

Update:

Got a letter from the Fiscal saying that they have " insufficient admissable evidence"

Apparently there needs to be more than one source of evidence to prove that a crime was committed. There must also be more than one source of evidence on who committed the crime. In this case there is no corroboration so they aren't prosecuting.

So, lesson learned. If you're getting savaged by a dog in Scotland, hang around a few hours till someone else comes along to corroborate the fact that you're being savaged by a dog in Scotland.
Or film it.
Or something.

But s'russly, if anyone finds the same situation up there, get it reported to the polis.

Disappointing to hear that.

That is disappointing.

We are up there in July, and I expect to pass through there.

I have three lads, I could volunteer one as bait, one as filmographer and one as independent witness?

I have three lads, I could volunteer one as bait, one as filmographer and one as independent witness?

Good plan. Which one is your least favourite/slowest runner?

I have three lads, I could volunteer one as bait, one as filmographer and one as independent witness?

Bear in mind that there were three dogs, so the kids may all need to multi task. 😜

Apparently there needs to be more than one source of evidence to prove that a crime was committed

We were robbed by a former cleaner a few years ago, she had retained a house key. Three months after we had sacked her she was seen by a neighbour coming in to our house whilst we were on holiday. Unfortunately our neighbour didn't realise that we had sacked her. We suffered about £10k of loss.

Despite being seen entering our house, the police couldn't charge her as there was only one witness.

Bear in mind that there were three dogs, so the kids may all need to multi task. 😜

My wife and I can assume filming and witnessing duty.
Three dogs, three lads....

As an aside, an ex colleague and arctic explorer used to make the point that you don't need to be able to shoot far in defence. Just far enough to hit your companions foot.
The bear would eat any evidence.
😂😂😂

Hmmm. I live close enough to go there as a local ride. Better make sure that I don't go alone!

Please report this. People need to make sure their dogs aren’t a danger to others and unfortunately sometimes it’s a fine or worse that is the only way.

And some people want to release wolves into Scotland... 😕
Glad everyone is ok and no serious damage done, though the mental scars for the kids might take some time to come to terms with.

Please report this. People need to make sure their dogs aren’t a danger to others and unfortunately sometimes it’s a fine or worse that is the only way

Eh?
Is confusion.

If riding up there can you not take something sharp with you? Might resolve the issue if attacked

Take Richard's advice

"If the dog attacks: one defense is aerosol pepper sprays made for this purpose. They have a range of about ten feet and are light enough to clip to your handlebars. A water pistol loaded with a water-amonia solution will also work but is a good deal less convenient. If you have neither of these and can't or won't climb a tree get a stick or a large rock. No? The bicycle pump. Try to ram it down his throat. In any event, don't cower or cover up, because the dog will only chew you to ribbons. Attack. Any small dog can simply be hoisted up by the legs and his brains dashed out. With a big dog you are fighting for your life. If you are weaponless try to tangle him up in your bike and then strangle him. Kicks to the genitals and which break ribs are effective. If you have got a pump or a stick hold it at both ends and offer it up to the dog horizontally. Often the dog will bit the stick/pump and hang on. Immediately lift the dog up and deliver a very solid kick to the gemitals. Follow up with breaking the dogs ribs or crushing its head with a rock. If worst comes to worst ram your entire arm down its throat. He will choke and die. Better your arm than your throat."

Can’t we get WCA to make a dog trap?