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I managed to shear off the HTII axle (XT M760) on my SS last week 😐
It sheared near the drive-side axle/crank arm interface.
I was wondering if it was LX that was the problem? Apparently it's not actually a MTB groupset anymore. I'm reluctant to go up to SLX, worried that it'll happen again and will have wasted more precious pounds. Would deore be stronger than LX, albeit heavier?
I'm reluctant to go up to SLX
SLX is the 'new' LX.
Btw if you've worn out the splines on the LH crank arm you may be able to buy a spare LH crank arm.
Every frame I have not faced the BB has killed HTII bearings very quickly. Every time I've had the frame faced the bearings have lasted long enough. I'm pretty sure there is some kind of connection there...
Every frame I have not faced the BB has killed HTII bearings very quickly. Every time I've had the frame faced the bearings have lasted long enough. I'm pretty sure there is some kind of connection there...
Imo theres no connection whatsoever, infact the frame that i got faced/chased the BB ripped out, stripping the frame thread.. unles you cant get the bb in and it dont look right then i certainly wouldnt bother, most modern frames are ready to go.
i also lost an old marin frame due to the square taper BB being impossible to remove after it was in there for 10 years.. even lbs couldnt do it.
i do like HTII apart from the fact that the BB just dont last, they have virtually no resistance to water whatsoever ever, killed loads of them now on various bikes
Its not the bearings I have the problem with, although standard shimano ones don't last that long, its the splines I seem to have problems with.
the development of technology for most stuff these days is to
create a better profit margin
not a better crankset /washing machine /tv etc
square taper works fine even un52 b/bs are ime longer lasting
then the newer stuff especially the raceface stuff
middleburn sq/taper un72 for me
btw spinny spinny bearings .. yeah your right clean the grease out
and they're much better ..
I'll be honest and say my riding tastes lie predominantly in all that is retro 🙄 but....
I have run square taper cranks and BB for over 15 years now with the most recently replaced (shimano) lasting 8 years. I also run an XTR specific (forgets name) specific BB that is a take on square taper - again with no problems.
Having said this I do run two outboard BB set ups ( Truvativ and Shimano) both with no problems to date - about two years.
My observations as a lay person are that the square taper stuff seems better sealed than my external BB's and whilst the gap is wider between crank and BB shell they don't seem to clog up at all.
Where I ride is quite sandy and am aware that graunching occurs 👿 when sand gets between the crank and the bearing on my outboard - this cannot be doing the seals any good.
TBH external seems the way forward but I would be the first to stockpile if square taper was withrawn.
Ramblings on a man who has/hasn't* had enough coffee......I think so.
* delete as required
It's about progression, of a sort...
Square taper is fine and dandy if most of your riding is of the "going around in a big circle in the woods" sort of thing, nice big bearings, axle strength is more or less OK, but folk started to jump, and fling their bikes around generally more, and the axle on trad. BB (a road bike hang-over) started to be the fail point, so larger diameter axles, Octalink and ISIS...Trouble is in the UK that means smaller bearings, and that suddenly became the big issue, hence external BB's large bearings, check, large axle, check, mostly the answer to every-ones issues and a product that will retro fit every-ones frame, as an idea is brilliant, now that's not to say there won't be product failure, there always is, but really, it's a much better solution all round.
JIS sqaure taper FTW!
Lots of brackets out there. I get mine here:-
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/essybeam/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25
UN52's only.... they stopped making the UN72 a couple of years ago...
I changed my BB to a UN52 18 months ago and it's still running as clean as a whistle on my Superlight.
A couple of new UN72's on ebay. Over in the US (but they may ship em over)
[url= http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-BB-UN72-Bottom-Bracket-68x108mm-Square-Taper_W0QQitemZ280427928285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414ace9add ]UN72[/url]
Just used my old school XT square taper chainset for the first time and can't say I noticed any flex, tho' that could have been because of the fire in my lungs and my calfs. Looks good too.
now that's not to say there won't be product failure, there always is, but really, it's a much better solution all round.
so, good if you like hooning your bike and don't mind the exposed bearings seizing ?
Or alternatively don't mind looking after your kit. My bearings have never seized...
Well I'm fairly slim and don't do much hooning around and as I seem to be able to knacker the splines on HII then its back to tried and tested for me for a bit.
TBH, I've never felt the need to move on from square taper.
Dry bearings was a big thing in the late 1960s with trackmen. Yes, if correctly set up with cup bearings and the pedals removed, it would spin for ages but of course, this was without the lateral forces of legs on pedals.
IIRC, we had to change the bearings after every 30-40 miles of racing.
Or alternatively don't mind looking after your kit. My bearings have never seized...
Hmm, I'd rather not have to take my cranks off and regrease the bearings after every wet ride. None of the current options are that great, oversized BB shells is clearly the way forward.
Anyone tried the SKF square taper bb? Just ordered one with a Middleburn and am a bit curious. Bit late I know...
Bring back Octalink!
I've got 2-3 year old octalink XTR on one hardtail, still works a treat.
My Truvativ external jobby on the other bike just seized after 5 months sporadic use, so its off and awaiting some lovely octalink XT I found on Ebay.
It seems unfair to tar Octalink with the ISIS brush. Years of using it on different bikes and its never let me down.
sq taper on jey bikes, HT2 on the ones that made sq taper cranks creak & loosen.
UN72s all the way.
mmmmmm square taper,
There were two standards for the axels remember,
bendy
and
bent
Also:
They needed bedding into new cranks which meant carrying big allen keys on every ride.
They didn't last as long as people seem to remember
If they didn't bend they snaped
The canks would shear off at the first hint of a bad landing
They weren't exactly light (yes there maybe some lightweight, £400, niche-core out there thats lighter than a £50 SLX setup)
[i]mmmmmm square taper,
There were two standards for the axels remember,
bendy
and
bent
Also:
They needed bedding into new cranks which meant carrying big allen keys on every ride.
They didn't last as long as people seem to remember
If they didn't bend they snaped
The canks would shear off at the first hint of a bad landing[/i]
this is non-shimano square taper you're talking, right?
Got fed up with HTII bearings dying. Went back to square taper (UN52). It was also an excuse to get a shiny Middleburn crankset 🙂
> Hmm, I'd rather not have to take my cranks off and regrease
> the bearings after every wet ride.
Use SunTour XC Pro with GreaseGuard then, still readily available on eBay 🙂
I expect much depends on where you ride, i.e. what the local conditions are like.
I was getting through HTII bearings in a couple of wet/gritty rides.
Swapped back to SqT and have never looked back.
Am now running SqT on all 4 of my bikes and no issues at all, i.e. Middleburn cranks on 2 of them, shimano on one and White Indsutries on another.
No creaking, no loosening (never had a need to bed them in!)
Have never had a failure/snapped crank and I'm not light!
Or alternatively don't mind looking after your kit. My bearings have never seized...
whereas with square taper there's nothing to look after...
Reading these posts, you have to wonder whether HT2 is the result of industrial espionage...
Middleburn send one of their designers out to Japan
He designs a rubbish chainset with poor durability
Shimano sell loads so they're happy
Middleburn are one of the few companies making nice square-taper, so they mop up all the disappointed customers
BB30 is the way forward...
C
mmmmmm square taper,
There were two standards for the axels remember,
bendy and bent
might you be a "larger gentleman" ??
being an unadventurous lightweight I've never bent an axle
I'm definitely a larger gentleman and have still never bent a square taper BB despite having broken quite a few sets of cranks.
As I have never bent an axle, had one come loose or the crank come off (threadlock) and can't be arsed fettling bearings I never left sqr taper. Isis was and is pants but octalink seems good quality too.
I'M 11 stone and fairly smooth on a bike yet I've twisted square taper axles. HT2 are noticeably stiffer and lighter than square taper and the BBs last fine if you don't submerge or jetwash the bike. I've not seen the splines fail, was it done up properly?
Appologies for digging up an old thread, but I just stumbled across this and found it quite interesting. It seems the majority of the voices in this thread prefer the old school taper axles, and that a few people have had HT2 fail on them.
Personally I cant understand why this is. My first HT2 was on my roadbike, 2008 tiagra so nothing great. 4500 miles on and its perfect. Have completely removed the cranks numerous times and the BB cups a couple of times to clean them. No problems.
Next I got a Cannondale with a 2008 Truvativ GXP system. 2500 miles later, its still perfect. (Yes I know its not stricktly HT2, but its external bearing so the similar arguement applies). Again Ive had the cranks off at least every week to clean, post every ride in the winter.
I recently bought a new condor track bike, it came with a decent quality square taper BB. The level of flex was ridiculous. So guess what, it got changed to Truvativ Omnium with GXP BB. Now it too is perfect, nice and stiff.
The only way I can see them failing is due to poor maintenance, or poor instalation. But with such a simple process of disassembly there is really no excuse for neglect. Im sure one of mine will fail at some point. but when it does I'll happily replace the bearings and carry on where I left off.
Maybe the only way old UN72's are superior is in their fit and forget nature. As far as I can see, HT2 is superior in every other way.
Definitely stiffer, and notably lighter. Not sure the stiffness has made a jot of difference to my riding though.
Maybe the only way old UN72's are superior is in their fit and forget nature. As far as I can see, HT2 is superior in every other way.
I got some UN26s for £5.50 each which seem to last me longer than UN72s. Cheaper and zero maintenance despite frequenct submersion scores for me as I've never noticed flex.
They didn't last as long as people seem to remember
Still got the original square taper in my 105 equipped roadbike from ca. 1989. Was still going strong the last time I had that bike out (easily many 1000's miles over its lifetime).
Something that people dont remember is that the 'fit and forget cartridge bearing' BB such as Shimmy's UN72 didn't exist on the market for that long. For most of the history of the square taper BB, it had a variety of different bearing solutions, some reliable, some not, but nearly all of them required a degree of constant fettling or finesse to work with.
Even when the cartridge types appeared, I never got longer than 18 months out of them, exactly the same as Hollowtech 1, and now 2.
I wouldnt go back, though I've yet to have a bike with BB30.
Even when the cartridge types appeared, I never got longer than 18 months out of them, exactly the same as Hollowtech 1, and now 2
I never used to get more than 9 months, except with a 2nd hand XTR I was given, which was adjustable and lasted me about 3 years. However I bought 4 UN26s, assuming they'd fail quicker, but in fact the first has already lasted over a year and there's still no play
Who knows what you lot do to your BB but I've had an Octalink BB in one of my bikes since 2004, never serviced and is still smooth! Been running the same bearing in an XT HT11 BB since 2007, still smooth as well!
Do people not know how to install a BB? Looking at your claimed failure rates I'd say so! that and not facing your BB shell!
Three months after going back to square taper and I'm very happy with it. Hopefully I can keep getting hold of the BBs and five bolt chainrings.
OK, so from those with experience, what's the best way of fitting a NDS square taper crank so it doesn't round off? I get tightening it to x torque, but anything else? Cause I really don't want to ruin the taper on my new RS7s...
If you are considering returning back to Sqr Taper then you clearly never suffered from them snapping! I don't understand how you could not like HTII. Fitted properly, never over tensioning the bearings with LOTS of grease and they'll last ages. Torque wrench and some grease goes a long way.
Never had spline problems using them on a DH bike.
One small issue I HAVE seen with cheaper HT2 axles is a tiny bit of galvanic corrosion forming on the end of the axle under the crankarms pinchbolt, leading to mysterious 'click, click' sounds every second revolution.
A bit of wire wool smoothed it off and cured it.
I've not had this issue with Dura-ace or XTR though..