[Closed] Any experiences with Gates Carbon Belt drives? Please share

Belts, from what I've seen, are a problem looking for a solution. Some people find them fine, but you still need a specific frame and you still can't use conventional gears. They do seem to break a lot more than chains though. And cost a lot. For what advantage? Stick with a chain would be my advice.

Earlier this year I *really* wanted a custom made belt-drive rohloff-hub'd titanium cross-y commuter-y machine... so I spent a inordinate amount of time researching it - I ended up with a Tripster - and couldn't be happier.

Since then a few lads I know have dabbled with belt and nearly all have relegated to running them in the dry, it's just not for CX or MTB in this part of the world ... any decent bit of mud or grit and the belts snap .... whereas my 1x11 Tripster sailed through absolutely ferocious mud last weekend at a CX race.

I came to the conclusion that the Rolhoff isn't MTB compatible either, unless you're willing to run a triple up front - the gear range is just way too small.

Some day I will get a custom made Ti frame - maybe even a fattie - but I'd rather figure out exactly what I need from an off the shelf bike first.

Avoid at all costs i'd say .
They might have improved , but i had one on a Trek District & twice the belt suddenly slipped off or jammed or something & threw me off in traffic .
Seriously lucky to be here to tell the tale .
I checked the tension with a special gauge etc. , but ended up selling in the end as i dare'nt ride it . Constant peddaling seemed ok , but it was when you set off & the sudden downward force must've thrown it off line or something .

I've got one and it's great. Silent in use no slips or slides. I love getting in from a wet ride and throwing it straight in the cupboard. When you get it out again. It's good to go. I've ridden off and on road in mud and and had zero problems.

Any excuse for a pic 😉
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Does MTG still come on here?

I've never had one but I did read that some one knew some one that broke one and for that reason I'll never buy an alu / carbon / steel frame, or a wheel, or a dropper post, or bars or anything ever again.

In reality I'd happily have one and not worry about people on the internet.

Just read the posts about MTG's experiences with one - you won't go near one. 🙂

I love getting in from a wet ride and throwing it straight in the cupboard. When you get it out again. It's good to go. I've ridden off and on road in mud and and had zero problems.

I have a Rohloff with a chain - same benefits really, I've very rarely cleaned it, and never more than a wipe over with a rag, and just chuck cheap gearbox oil on the chain every so often. It's been going like that for over 8 years and I think I'm on my third chain. I'd really hoped the belt system would work and at first it promised a significant weight saving. However Gates had to change to steel cogs at the rear due to excessive wear and now there is virtually no weight benefit at all. Don't forget any frame unless it has elevated chainstays will be heavier if it has to accommodate a split. It may be good for commuting and a bit of mixed riding but for proper all year round off road riding I'd stick with a chain.

Edit - don't want to be too negative as I'd really love the system to work - If you do go the belt route it's easy enough to go back to a chain if it doesn't work, you'll just have a very slightly heavier frame than you need a much lighter wallet than you'd want. 🙂

Yeah I agree with what everyone else has read, I best sell quickly before any potential buyers read some stuff too 😉

I'm surprised to hear that the speed-14 Rohloff really that limited in greaing? Looks like a better spread than my current 1x11 set up (28tx10-42). I can get an smaller granny and bigger big gear, no?

All I read about is robustness of the Rohloff, with the negative being the back wheel weight. As a serial mech mangler and mech hanger wrecker, this is massively appealing.

Same the belt drive, seemed like a perfect addition to the Rohloff ethic... hmmmm....

Gearing wise mine is set up with 18" to 100" give or take a fraction so a better and bigger spread than my mtb.

I also used to have a salsa 29er with rohloff and it had a similar range to a 3x9 set up

I came to the conclusion that the Rolhoff isn't MTB compatible either, unless you're willing to run a triple up front - the gear range is just way too small.

?? I'm running a Rohloff & wanted to replace 3x9 gearing without losing much range - 42T front 17T rear gives me this with a slightly lower top gear.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/belt-drive-i-t-may-be-time-to-admit-defeat

http://www.gates.com/about-gates/news/2015/march/gates-carbon-drive-launches-lower-priced-belt-drive-for-city-bikes

Haven't read all that ^^^

I've got a District that I've been commuting on for the last 5 years or so, and it's been brilliant. It's had 1 belt in that time and very little maintenance other than the usual for hubs, headset, BB etc. Works faultlessly and you don't need to worry about the maintenance of the belt at all.

When the belt failed (and in hindsight it was on its way out for a while) I stripped half the teeth off it. I was trying to test if it was the hub or the belt that was at fault though, so cranking it up a big hill. The belt creaks a lot when the teeth are worn to the point of failure, which is a sound to listen out for after a few years of use.

Yes, you need a specific frame for one. Yes, you need to think about hub gears or SS. Yes, they're fit and forget for the most part. Yes, you will eat through BB bearings fairly regularly.

My TCO has been the bike, 6 BBs and 1 belt, plus brake pads and the usual "wear and tear" items from a regular bike. But of course, minus the faff of chains and mechs. Perfect for commuting IMO.

I've got plenty of custom titanium experience and thought that a SS beltdrive fatty might be my next project - having much fun with my 5" custom ti fatty that I built last year. Plenty of inspiration on Spanner.org. I buy my frames factory-direct from China - don't see why I need to pay a 50%+ premium for a UK 'brand' and warranty. The simple answer is don't scrimp on the chainstays - any flex and you're asking for trouble. Biggest decision is whether to use adjustable dropouts or eccentric BB. Also bear in mind that fatbike tyres throw-up a huge amount of spray onto the BB, so a BB with easy to service bearings is a must given the extra load.

@PeterPoddy

They do seem to break a lot more than chains though.

Pish.

What actually is the advantage of a belt over a chain on a bike you are going to ride through mud and generally filthy conditions?
I've been running a Rohloff for a long time and think it's brilliant but in all those years I think the total time spent wiping the chain and adding more oil would be less than an hour.
If the bike were a commuter or used mostly on road and I needed to take it in and out of the house or office and wanted to cycle in my finest white linen suit I could see an advantage but off road I'm struggling to see any benefit. And if they really do wear bb bearings more quickly then thats very soon going to take away the hour I've wasted over the last 8 years maintaining my chain that I might have got back. 🙂

They will only wear a bb earlier if the belt is too tight

considered belt and have used an alfine.
didn't go belt as PP's answer - really a solution looking for a problem, and when good quality 9sp chain is available so cheaply now WGAS how well you look after it on a SS or IGH?
The alfine was 'OK'. not a roly, obviously, but that weight concentrated at the back you will certainly notice if you ever want to do a bunnyhop. the weight just isn't where you want it on a bike. also what happens when your hub bearings wear out? lots of users say 'it's fine, they get changed for free', which I guess is ok, but you still have to get the wheel in to your place of purchase, or to germany yourself, and be without it for a couple of weeks.
also reports of rohlhoff saying that play at the rim ( from bearing wear ) was 'normal'. 🙄
not for me, ta. YMMV.

@ernie67

Avoid at all costs i'd say .
They might have improved , but i had one on a Trek District and twice the belt suddenly slipped off or jammed or something and threw me off in traffic .
Seriously lucky to be here to tell the tale .
I checked the tension with a special gauge etc. , but ended up selling in the end as i dare'nt ride it . Constant peddaling seemed ok , but it was when you set off and the sudden downward force must've thrown it off line or something .

I was riding with someone yesterday and their chain snapped. Not sure what to do now. Obviously can't use a belt 'cause your one slipped and now I can't use a chain because I saw one snapped yesterday. Are there other transmission systems I can try or should I just give up riding?

Are there other transmission systems I can try or should I just give up riding?

I think direct drive is the only way.

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A quick link or two will get you home Mr Shand, surprised you weren't aware of them. 🙂

also reports of rohlhoff saying that play at the rim ( from bearing wear ) was 'normal'

Yes mine needed this doing, pretty poor show working faultlessly for 8 years and then being repaired for free, If you've got the number for watchdog I'll give them a call. 🙂

shirley everyone has had some kind of snappage and ended up dropping the post and 'runner - biking' it home? 🙂

flintstone transmission!

If you can afford to go for a "belt compatible" frame then go for it. You can always revert back to a chain. I have ridden over 8000miles on my Gates CDX. A stiff chainstay is key. I have ridden singlespeed but suffered 3 sets of chains and sprockets one winter, so I started developing a belt-drive mountain bikes www.olsenbicycles.com

Chains pah... Belts.... Pah..... What you need is one of my franken creations:

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[img] ?format=1500w[/img]Tensioning is also very important...

doncorleone - did you visit Bespoked at Bristol with a folding version (single main tube, carbon fork) of that treadle bike?....

Hey Mick... No I didn't but the guy who designed and built it did. The orange folder is going strong (that was the single speed version). He has built a couple more since! Hopefully will take the bikes to bespoked next year on a stand.

Regarding the cost of the belts. Surely there is a car using the exact same size belt. Find a dealer changing the cam belts on that model and scrounge the old ones. Or am I missing something?

shandcycles - Member

I was riding with someone yesterday and their chain snapped

And he fixed it at the trailside in about 1 minute using a part that cost £1.99, and carried on?

You can carry a spare belt, of course, and fitting isn't so bad. But if you're carrying around a £60 spare part, what does that say about trust and reliability?

I think Northwind's post is right.

Belts don't break often but neither do chains and a chain is repairable at the trailside.

It's personal choice, I don;t have enough issues with chains to warrant looking at alternatives. It's also still at the 'early adopter' stage for off road use (imo). There have, in the past perhaps, been issues with belt retention etc which has left a question marks for a lot of people.

I think if belts and hub gears 'solved' a problem in the way that disks or tubeless tyres did they'd be much more widely used.

As it stands hub gears (and SS) are both niche products and belts a further niche within that.

I wouldn't criticize anyone for choosing to use one and if it works for them that's great but they have a downside as well as an up.

These belt/chain fail stories are all well and good, but this thread really needs some perspective.

I was out riding last week and totalled a back wheel, 4 steel spokes broke. This was not "trail repairable". Nobody would suggest that steel spokes, or back wheels, are unreliable and should be avoided.

I was out riding about 5years ago and broke an aluminium Cannondale frame. This was not "trail repairable". Even with the nickname Crack-and-fail, people still buy their bikes by the bucket load, and aluminium has not gone out of favour.

Chains fail, some can be repaired. Belts fail, and generally can't be repaired. But people use both, and almost all the time they do not fail. Without accurate statistics, this mud slinging is silly.

/rant

You can take the mick shandcycles , but from my experience i wouldn't go near one ( thrown off twice on a v. busy A road - cuts/bruising etc. ) - obviously other people have got on with them fine .
It seems like a brilliant idea & the low maintenance was half the reason i bought the bike .
Others have found it to be ok , so maybe i was just unlucky eh ?

I'm sure Mr Shand offers a complete and free replacement of any Gates drive with a conventional system on all his complete builds if you are not entirely satisfied with the belt. 🙂

Joking aside I'd actually probably try it if such an offer were on the table and I were in the market for a new hub geared bike. When I bought into the Rohloff I went with a Thorn because I wasn't sure it was for me and it came with a 100 day try it and return the bike for a full refund if you don't like it offer. I couldn't really lose.

[quote=UrbanHiker ]I was out riding last week and totalled a back wheel, 4 steel spokes broke. This was not "trail repairable". Nobody would suggest that steel spokes, or back wheels, are unreliable and should be avoided.

They might if there was an obvious tried and tested alternative which performs just as well and is trail repairable.

Cheers don. I was the (hobby) framebuilder that accosted him as he was leaving the show. I'd love to know some more about his linkage bikes (searched but never found anything else on the net). My email is in profile if he could get in touch. We saw it locked up later in middle of Bristol so took some spy photos 🙂 It was truly my favourite bike of the whole visit (including everything in the show).

How do the rod-end spherical bearings hold up in the linkages? I work with them a lot in the day job and have lots of fun with durability, wear, backlash etc.

I wish everyone would stop arguing and look properly at how the crazy linkage bike works. The folder was a very clever way of getting a short bike with proper size wheels (as it has no bottom bracket in the way).

beltrider - Member

[img] ?format=1500w[/img]
Tensioning is also very important...

How does that work Beltrider? Is it some kind of suspension linkage?

Are there other transmission systems I can try or should I just give up riding?

If you want SS or Rohloff and no maintenance, get one of those floating chainguard thingies that I can NEVER rememeber the name of.

EDIT: Hebie Chainglider.. they do a Rohloff specific one.

[img] [/img]

How does that work Beltrider? Is it some kind of suspension linkage?

Beltirder - looks like a lovely set up, thanks for sharing.

All - many thanks for the views and input, most useful. I think, on balance, I'm going to give it a crack. Prepare for MTG-like threads from me in the future 🙂

I'm going to give it a crack

Could be a poor choice of words 🙂

TBH I wish my steel 29er had belt-compatible dropouts, I'd give it a try.

Mols - its steeel.
Get the welder out 😉

A closer look at a shand stoater rear dropout
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Hah no, especially if it needs changing a few times!

we saw a lot of this with the first generation Gates, typically on Trek Soho city bikes; admittedly related to debris from the highway or mishandling of belts during assembly

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