So, based in Dublin i have a pretty decent trail center closeby (Ticknock).
Its a 30km round trip and i've been riding out there on my Hightower, but find myself pretty gassed when i get there (giving it too much gnar on the downhill sections) and sometimes only doing half the loop before heading home.
Thoughts are to build a fast hardtail, that will hopefully take less effort to get out there and that i can also head out on for leisurely spins with my better half (who is just about to purchase a Marin DSX). We are riding the greenway to Westport in September so would be using it for that as well.
Before i hear the words GRAVEL BIKE, it has to be capable of getting down proper off-piste trails, not just graded trail center runs.
Stipulations: must be available in Europe or from a UK company that delivers with VAT and duty paid. I had my heart set on a Cotic SolarisMax but Brexit has made it horrendously expensive (over 2k for frame, forks and headset)
Spec wise i was thinking SID Ultimate, Spez Ground control tyres - i have a set of carbon roval wheels and most of a Mechanical GX groupset lying around, as well as a spare dropper.
So, what "downcountry" hardtail frame?
Sonder Signal TI?
29 check
130mm fork check, although i guess a 120mm fork is more regular?
not too heavy? simalar weight as an alumnium frame?
if the geo is too slack, a sonder broken road with a shorter fork
29 or 27.5?
Orange Clockwork is always worth a look. Pace too, the 627 can run 130mm forks.
Sorry, forgot to mention - 29er
I'd considered Pace, but same situation with VAT and duty as the Cotic.
Is it quite a hilly route to the trail centre? If a downcountry HT is, say, 10lbs lighter than a Hightower, is that really going to make much of difference? Will the rolling resistance / aero be much different?
Bird Zero 29?
Vitus Sentier
Whippet.
I can hopefully contribute something useful here.
I bought one of the recent slacker SolarisMax frames and built it up a little more "trail" than your proposed build, but for similar use.
To be honest I found it lacked the XC zip of my previous mk2 SolarisMax and only felt engaging on proper trails. If I wanted a DC hardtail, I'd look at something aluminium (or carbon) and slightly less relaxed geometry.
This might be worth a punt and run it with a 130mm fork?
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ns-bikes-eccentric-alu-evo-29-frame-2022/rp-prod209635?gs=1&sku=sku855687&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=base&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz96WBhC8ARIsAATR252dK9s1scbXhxpCGt9YVN0uoJzz8EhMVnmkUK2iN5Csm0bpdke3pD8aAk9aEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I ride my hello Dave out to Sherwood pines a few times a year. It's 50 miles round trip pretty much pan flat.
Semi slick on the rear and some lightish wheels and it's good. Unless there is a headwind it's only a few min slower than a my gravel bike.
So I'd get a fun hardtail that makes it worth it when you get there.
I'd say hello Dave with a 160mm fork and light wheels. Mine is a chunk over 30lb in xl.
My orange clockwork 120 is a 120mm, 27.5" frame that I have 26" wheels and a 150mm fork on. It's not significant funner or faster round the twisty bits.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOVAGX/on-one-vandal-sram-gx-titanium-mountain-bike
or the titanium version
I have an Eliminator to put on the rear of the Hightower, but i'm just lazy and can't be bothered with the effort of getting the insert back on and sealant mess.
I also don't want to diminish the HTs capabilities on the off-piste stuff - if i was just riding man made stuff it wouldn't be an issue.
I think lighter, less aggressive tyres on a hardtail will make a big difference.
Plus i havent had NBD for over 12 months...
One of the guys who works for a local bikeshop has built up a Nukeproof Scout 290 with 120mm Sids and Specialized Ground Controls.
Oh and the ride up to the top is about 600m of elevation gain
What size do you need?
I have a large 2018 Orange Clockwork 129 frame (same frame as the evo, they just changed the name) that I need to get around to shifting.
I get the comments of Chakapinh re: the Solaris having had both a mk1 and a LS
You mention Marin, what about the Team Marin?
You could swap out stuff and sell off the spares?
I think it’ll be over budget but I love my Yeti ARC 😎
I'm not a fan of the Orange hard tails unfortunately.
My girlfriend is getting a Marin DSX for commuting and some light off-road stuff.
I did look at the Marins MTB range - the Pine Mountain caught my eye (the El Roy is too aggressvive!)
Woahh 520mm seat-tube length on the XL size....
The Cotic has really long chainstays. The Pace is really long in the reach with super short chainstays (and conflicting advice about whether you can lengthen them 6.5mm with the sliding dropouts, or whether that's a bad idea, but even 436 is short compared to the 444 of the Cotic). they're both steel and consequently neither is especially light.
When I was looking for a similar bike I looked at both of those but ended up with a Ragley Big Al. Geometry is modern without being extreme, it's comparatively light and significantly cheaper (and surprisingly nicely made and finished)
I'm doubtful you're going to find yourself less tired than riding your full sus. I still love the different experience of riding a hardtail but the increased work you have to do on anything that isn't smooth outweighs any benefit from lighter weight IME.
I’m doubtful you’re going to find yourself less tired than riding your full sus. I still love the different experience of riding a hardtail but the increased work you have to do on anything that isn’t smooth outweighs any benefit from lighter weight IME.
Yeah, I've gone back to a short travel FS as it's so much more usable in my locale.
Sounds like the OP has a pretty solid use case for a HT though.
Lol at the Hello Dave suggestion 🤣
Op wants a light / fast hardtail for Max 120mm forms and gets suggested a heavy steel frame with a 160mm fork and ludicrously slack geometry.
It sounds like you want a hardtail equivalent of a Transition Spur essentially. Without paying a fortune for it - and has to be available frame only. Maybe a Yeti Arc style thing but with less ludicrous pricing. Santa Cruz Chameleon perhaps?
A mate has one of those carbon Carbonda hardtail frames and that came in pretty cheap and is pretty fast - geometry is less progressive than some others though.
Some of the European brands might be worth a look on cost - Cube / Canyon have fairly good value hardtail frames although just be careful of the reach on some of them - can be a bit short if you want to do some off piste steep tech.
Stuff like the Nukeproof scout / Vitus Sentier etc more on the trail side but still fairly lightweight alloy frames too
I'll be honest its covering distance at speed that i want - i'm not going to be hooning down chunky trails, it just has to be semi capable if i want it to.
I'm talking after work hot laps at the local trail centre and 40-50km off road rides at the weekend, where i don't want to lug the Hightower around with big sticky tyres!
@joebristol has it - hardtail version of the Spur would be ideal!
Do Canyon sell the Stoic as a frame only? BMC 2 stroke?
I use a SolarisMax for exactly this, plus commuting and up to 100km gravel rides. 140mm and a lightish build.
Other thoughts would be a 2nd hand Stanton Sherpa?
I'd add Stanton Sherpa or Pipedream Sirius S5 to the list.
The On-one big dog, scandal, or vandal might fit the bill also.
Right, i think i've got it.
XXL Nukeproof Scout 290 (from the local bike shop)
Sid Ultimate Raceday 120mm
Nukeproof stem and bars
Reverb AXS dropper (don't judge me for having this as a spare!)
Roval Traverse Carbon wheelset
Specialized Ground Control T5 tyres (will take other tire recommendations)
GX groupset (providing its not dead)
Specialized saddle
Magura MT5 brakes
Should cost me about 1750 euros all in...
Sounds like a cracking bike, come back with pics when it's built.
Bravo! Short chainstays all the way! The Cotic Solaris Max LS is a barge for XC.
The Nukeproof is a great looking bike, a bit too slack in the HA for your usage IMO but who cares it looks amazing.
As a mixed HT/FS rider, this will involve compromise. No HT will get you down gnar like an FS will. You can get close, but it will cost you in energy and it won't be light or easy rolling.
I'm with whoever said this.
I’m doubtful you’re going to find yourself less tired than riding your full sus. I still love the different experience of riding a hardtail but the increased work you have to do on anything that isn’t smooth outweighs any benefit from lighter weight IME.
suspect the OP has a bunch of bits taking up space in the shed that need hanging off a frame to keep them tidy. 😉
surprised the cotic really worked out that much more expensive unless they wouldn't knock the VAT off when they ship it? anything you bought from the UK would be subject to local taxation unless you have a friend in the north of course in which case they could lend you a frame...
Whilst the Nukeproof scout is usually quite slack for your desired use case you’re putting on a 30mm shorter travel fork (I think the scout is usually 150mm fork) so that’s going to steepen it and lower the effective stack height. Just check it’s not going to be too low for you - especially if you’re really tall
I am looking at the same as you. Not massive pickings. Its either cc race or hard-core hardtail.
Best I've found so far is Turner Nitrous Ti, but import is difficult.
What about Stanton sherpa ti? 120mm decent geo, not to steep or slack?
yeah. think the big al would be my choice for the shorter fork. well, it wouldn't, i'd go for the sirius myself but i'd be prepared to pay for the sliding dropouts that has which others may not worry about. the scout can take up to 160 IIRC?
I was about to say - Pipedream Sirius?
@scienceofficer i'm not trying to replace my hightower, this is a N+1 bike for fast laps at trail centre type places or XC epics.
@joebristol, the stack on my XL Hightower is 637mm, the XXL Nukeproof is 669mm unsagged with a 140mm fork so with a 120mm should be comparable.
@del Yes they knock the UK VAT off, however VAT is 23% in Ireland, plus 4.7% import duty (the Cotic is made in Taiwan) plus the crappy £ to € exchange rate makes it over 2k for a frame and fork bundle.
I don't like the geo on the Sirus, plus VAT/Duty/Exchange rate issues, probably also the same with anything from Stanton.
Turner Nitrous.
The vat and duty is non-issue as its taken care of during the shipping.
+1 for Turner Nitrous depending on budget. Most comfortable, eager and capable bike of its type that I have owned!
That sounds exactly like the sort of stuff I use my Solaris for, ride to fun stuff, ride fun stuff, ride home.
If a new Solaris is over budget get a second hand Solaris.
“@joebristol, the stack on my XL Hightower is 637mm, the XXL Nukeproof is 669mm unsagged with a 140mm fork so with a 120mm should be comparable”
Hardtails only sag at the front whilst full-sus bikes sag slightly more at the back than the front. So if you want to compare fit and geometry I’d calculate it with the hardtail running about 30% sag. Static it’ll look taller, shorter and slacker than it really is.
Another vote here for the Stanton Sherpa - and the UK made one would avoid the Taiwan tax. Zippy frame, designed around a 120mm Sid, not silly long, capable downhill, sprightly on the flat (with the right wheel/tyre combo). If weights an issue, there's always the Ti
Nukeproof also give a sagged stack value which is 4mm lower than static.
So if its 665mm at 20% sag with a 140mm fork, with a 120mm fork it will be sat at 644mm stack which is actually 7mm taller than my Hightower.
Plus i'd prob run less sag with a 120mm fork.
Or am i missing something here?
The UK made Stanton is over 1k, it also has an insanely long seat tube!
"Nukeproof also give a sagged stack value which is 4mm lower than static."
How strange! Had a look at their chart and if their numbers are correct then the frame magically changes size as the fork sags! 😉
With a 120mm fork and 25% sag you need to add 24mm reach and deduct 18mm stack from the 140mm fork static geometry.
