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its a crappy bit of road there
lots of traffic, cyclists and pedestrians all over the place
surprisd that it hasnt happened sooner
hope she can recover
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclist-suffers-life-changing-injuries-after-crash-with-tipper-truck-in-camden-8895992.html
They should ban those F***king things and the divs who drive them.
Sad, poor woman.
make them only enter london via certain routes.....routes that take in all the politicians houses/flats. we'll soon se change then!
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
They appear to be responsible for a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents in London.
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
The drivers
Saw this reported on LFGSS yesterday, seems like there is one every week. 🙁
reading the report, the woman was overtaking the tipper, whilst it was turning left?
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
They appear to be responsible for a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents in London.
I have a theory that the problem is that women cyclists are more likely to obey the law and Hence get killed. Look at who is being killed by HGVs in London...
The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.
I hope she does recover BTW, and certainly not saying it is her fault.
In the last pic the driver's side rear light appears defective on the truck.
The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.
Maybe time to consider a weight and axle limit during daytime hours. 7.5 tonnes, 3 axles.
Its the longer, heavier vehicles taking wide lines with lousy visbility that together with some naive road positioning by a significant number of cyclists that's causes the conflict.
Remove the opportunity for conflict, reduce the periods of the day when these vehicles and cyclists are vying for the same road space.
Large vehicles with blind spots shouldn't be on the road.It is a completely avoidable accident waiting to happen.
looks like the turn is too tight for the lorry so he swung out to the right to make the turn.
Busses do this to me in Manchester a lot of the time, they're indicating right then swing left to give themselves a bit more room.
reading the report, the woman was overtaking the tipper, whilst it was turning left?
She was going straight on and she was on the [b]right hand side[/b] of the truck which was turning left but it swung out to make the turn, the right front of the lorry clipped the left rear of her bike and dragged her under. 🙁
Hope she recovers OK.
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
Drivers are often paid per load.
Plus there's lots of them because of the London building boom.
As has been observed, it's amazing how a lorry's blind spots are almost the exact same shape as the Advanced Stop Line boxes cyclists are supposed to use.
daytime hours
Putting all the heavy traffic and deliveries on the roads at night in residential areas, and on roads full of drunk, lightless cyclists etc.....
Not sure that's the answer. Sorry. Continued education of all parties using the roads, and prosecution where it is correctly applied.
It's not a witch hunt at either end of the road user spectrum. Someone could quite easily put
for bikesThey should ban those Fking things and the divs who [s]drive[/s] ride them
or
for pedestriansThey should ban those Fking things and the divs who [s]drive [/s] walk in them
And, this;
The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.I hope she does recover BTW, and certainly not saying it is her fault.
(Mods, please feel free to delete above if required. Quoting another poster for emphasis, not insult)
why residential areas? Most HGV deliveries will be into CBDs.
There may well be an increase in deliveries by smaller vehicles during the day perhaps which would not be great admittedly. But education alone isnt going to cut it. HGV drivers will continue to run wide into their blind spots and tourists & novice urban riders will continue to pootle around oblivious to the risks of unfamiliar scenarios.
Most HGVs are, I bet, supermarket or multi-drop deliveries that could easily be replaced with smaller wagons at a commercial cost. Smaller tipper/grab/concrete/skip handling is readily available, again at a higher cost.
Tipper trucks are legally classed as site vehicles, so different rules apply to them.
The main differences are a way higher front bumper, so if one hits you, no chance of being pushed, your going under. No side bars, so if they turn in on you, no getting pushed away, your going under. Massive clearance around spray guards, making it easier to get caught in the wheel.
Also, as already said, drivers are paid a bonus, which attracts a certain type of driver.
why residential areas? Most HGV deliveries will be into CBDs.
Delancey St, as referenced in the article, is largely residential, as is pretty much all of London bar the Square Mile.
Cost? Perhaps that's the biggest problem here. Everyone wants everything as cheap as possible (See the number of "Where's cheapest" posts on here"), and adding cost to all that stuff isn't seen as an option. Sadly.
its pretty obvious that a lot of tight roads werent designed with huge hgvs in mind (and vice versa)
just look at all the mashed up corner kerbs on most city streets
I don't like this idea of putting stuff on smaller vehicles. Why replace 1 well trained driver with 30 idiots with no training.
The real problem isn't the attics, it's the tipper Lorry's.
Also, as already said, drivers are paid a bonus, which attracts a certain type of driver.
^^^This^^^
I've seen a far higher percentage of tipper drivers ' discreetly texting/talking calls when at lights/moving off than I have of most other commercial vehicles.
I stay well away from them because all they see is their bonuses as there job is to get from A to B as quickly as possible.
If you rode in London daily you'd know what I mean.
Large vehicles with blind spots shouldn't be on the road.It is a completely avoidable accident waiting to happen
main differences are a way higher front bumper, No side bars, Massive clearance around spray guards
if you are gonna get hit by something, you dont want a site vehicle.
That video Bob 😯 In the UK too!
It is sad to see anyone being hurt by moving traffic, sounds like it could have happened to me, although I'm pretty cautious of exaggerated turning circles.
Yep, if you look at the stats, a high percentage of cyclist deaths are caused by hgvs. About 80/90% of these deaths are caused by tippers...
This is the first thing that needs sorting out.
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
[i]The drivers[/i]
Definitely!
One clipped me on the arm once - traffic lights ahead so I jumped on his step and opened the door "You just hit me".. "No I didn't". Thick as pigshit.
Well the nice Mr Boris has just announced another one of his #AskBoris sessions on Twitter - use @MayorofLondon and #AskBoris to ask when he's going to do something about this, what measures he'll take to improve the Cycle Superhighways after last week's damning verdict of them by the coroner in the cases of Brian Dorling and Philippine De Gerin-Ricard (both killed on that Bow roundabout junction on CS2) and why tipper trucks like that are still allowed on the streets.
Session should be starting about 4.30pm today.
If she was going past the truck on the right as it turned left then the cyclist is at fault, surely?
Common sense dictates that a lorry making a tight turn might swing out to the side to help make the turn. Since she was performing an overtaking manoeuvre when it wasn't safe to do so, she is at fault.
For the "anti-anything but bikes" brigade...
[url= https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169 ]Overtaking according to the Highway Code[/url]
You're assuming a lot to be so certain.
Also:
168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
If she was going past the truck on the right as it turned left then the cyclist is at fault, surely?
You're assuming she was overtaking the lorry rather than the lorry "undertaking" her. I don't think this thread is the place to be apportioning blame.
I cycle up there every day...it's 4 lanes wide with a 20mph limit. All lanes, all vehicles and bikes generally moving at the same speed she could have just been in the next one along from the lorry (normally where I am to be honest as I don't turn left). Whilst common sense may dictate to stay away from big lorries it has no right to simply change lanes whilst someone else was using it.
I had assumed (before reading this thread) it was another cyclist going up the inside of a lorry. Scary accident.
From the web link:
They said she had been travelling on the right-hand side of a tipper truck heading straight along the road when it turned left into Delancey Street, colliding with the bike and dragging it under its front wheels.
[i]I had assumed it was another cyclist going up the inside of a lorry[/i]
Strange, I always assume it's the lorry left-hooking the cyclist.
I see it a lot unfortunately Dez
According to all the reports, the lorry was heading in the direction the camera is facing and making a left turn off Camden High St onto Delancy St here: http://goo.gl/maps/MYWgy
The cyclist was on the right of the lorry, trying to go straight on.
There are three 'straight on' lanes to the right of the 'left turn' lane. It's entirely possible that she was in an seperate lane to the truck and was just trying to go straight on in lane 2 when the lorry swung from lane 1 into lane 2 in order to get around the corner. so it's not her 'overtaking' a lorry at a junction, but a lorry changing lanes without any warning. And that's assuming that she was going as fast as the truck, she may well have been undertaken by it right before the collision.
edit: Slow typing, lots of the above has already been said.
Clapham or Camden? confused.
Banning 'site vehicles' from London Streets would be a start - see [url= http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-adopt-its-safer-urban-lorry-to-reduce-lorry-cyclist-deaths ]http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-adopt-its-safer-urban-lorry-to-reduce-lorry-cyclist-deaths[/url]
Skip trucks, scaffold trucks, tippers. All seem to be driven recklessly.
It's Camden, I've changed my original post.
Jesus that looks grim.
I stay well away from lorries and such like when i'm in the car let alone on a bicycle.
It's a shame that so many cyclists are oblivious to the danger they pose.
Maybe hi-viz lorries are the answer?
http://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/news/read/all-hgvs-must-be-hi-vis-argues-ctc/015569
Interesting aritcle, scaled.
I didnt realise the Parisiens had already applied restrictions:
Deux périodes de circulation
- De 22h à 17h, réservée aux véhicules dont la surface est inférieure à 29 m2 ;
- De 22h à 7h, ouverte aux véhicules d’une surface inférieure ou égale à 43 m2.
- Pour les véhicules propres inférieurs à 29m2, il n'y a pas de restriction
I wonder what a 29m2 lorry compares to in the UK?
What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
They appear to be responsible for a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents in London.
High front bumper height,
Higher wheel arches, and non enclosed mudguards,
No anti run under bars down sides, like a steel gate.
Drivers stuck in traffic will try and rush to get job done as if there is a load of muck to move, the construction site wants it moving fast,or they just get another driver or company.
Basicly give them a wide birth, as some are driven by highly skilled drivers, and some are driven by drivers who have no skills whatsover.