[Closed] Another Broken Ti Frame

External cable and hose routing would be top of my list.

If you go for internal then look at all the other Ti/Steel frame with internal routing - they pretty much all have reinforcement around cable entry/exit holes.

Easily said with hindsight...but an un reinforced hole near the most highly stressed area of the frame?

I'd be reluctant to order (again) from a builder who clearly needs to be told how to make durable frames...

Up to them whether they would replace the tube alone. I'm told it's not as straightforward as it seems.

Ah, gutted. Loved following the original thread. I'd also want full external routing, especially on a custom china frame.

On a side note, how did you get on with the build? How was the Alfine Di2 for commuting duties?

Reinforcement does certainly seem like the most obvious solution, was curious as to whether there were any thoughts on hole placement.  Clearly a concentration around the downtube isn't ideal!

External cable routing would make this bike look horrible, Di2 and dynamo light cabling doesn't really lend itself to being external and neat either.

Cheers, Rich

Just did a google image search for "ti frame internal cable routing" - think there's one with no reinforcement at all, the rest have holes roughly where yours were placed but with significant material added around them.

You could go in through the head tube - more metal to play with there?

I'm no framebuilder but I don't think I would have been brave enough to even ride something from China with awful looking holes like that in it, especially titanium.

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing, looking now it does look slightly fragile where it's peppered with holes!

The bike did it's job admirably, with the drawbacks (ignoring the breakage!) which I had already considered, that being a bit draggy.  The combination of the Alfine, belt-drive and dynamo resulted in something more suitable to steady plodding than lots of Strava segment bagging, but the upside was virtually zero maintenance, and no charging of bike lights.  The Alfine was getting a bit crunchy recently, and the rear brake getting rather ineffective, suggesting that like a lot of these hubs, they do leak some oil.  Probably more on the disk and less in the hub than ideal currently!

I've sent an email to the Chinese manufacturers to see what they suggest, will see what they say.

Personally, I've had mainly great experience with Chinese stuff, my road bike and MTB frames are both cheap carbon and I can't fault them.  The fiddly bits on my old tri bike weren't particularly well thought-out, but certainly weren't show-stoppers, never had anything break before.  The last frame I broke was a Magnesium Saracen, which I snapped the seat tube of twice!

Cheers, Rich

I'm not convinced of the durability of titanium, although this primarily relates to welds, which isn't where yours has failed.

I would suggest it might be an idea to stagger the holes so that they're not all on the same section of the tube, as well as any reinforcement. I'm not sure if there are any design rules you could follow for a bike frame, there are for pressure vessels but these have different loading on them.

If you want something that's going to last, you really need to test one to destruction to validate whatever solution you come up with. Any frame will eventually fail after enough hard use.

Dunno if it would financially worthwhile, but I always thought one of the benefits of steel and Ti frame was that they could be repaired - or have tubes rewelded.

Quick google finds this  http://www.vernonbarkercycles.co.uk/repairs_frames.html

Worth a chat with them - replace the cracked tube with a properly drilled one or repair it?

Shame, looks like a nice frame. Apart from the 'oles 😉

Xacd fame by any chance?

Nope this was Titan.  IIRC Xacd wanted a crazy amount of extra money for all of my deviations from a standard frame, while Titan happily included everything with minimal premium.  Also the fact that their email guy isn't totally objectionable meant that it was an easy decision 🙂

Cheers, Rich

thank god for that, XACD would have been knobs to deal with !! maybe worth just checking what grade of titanium and wall thickness was used? If you are wanting to pop lots of holes in, a grade 5 rather grade 9 tube may be a better bet but would have additional cost implications you could have some funky little cnc reinforced hole collars as well 🙂

Thanks for the update - it was great an interesting build thread and always good to see honest reports of what does / does not work out.

Routing in through the front of the head tube is quite a good option if you can avoid steerer rubbing.

Reinforcement patches on steel are easy as silver solder / brass leaves minimal stress raisers. I'd be equally wary of weld on ti patches causing just as many problems as the bare hole. You can buy flux for silver soldering titanium so maybe it is possible.

A friend of mine massively creased the downtube of his Enigma by running it into a low railway bridge on the roofrack of his car. Enigma repaired it by welding in a new sleeve (it was one of those Ti/ Carbon frames so would have had to be almost completely dissembled to replace the down tube). Maybe this is something that you could look into doing? And get some properly considered cable entry ports put in at the same time.

Saracen made a magnesium bike?

Some old steel bikes with internal cables had a brazed on plate around the hole (after earlier versions of the same frame cracked without)

I’m no expert, but that won’t stop me chipping in. Would the holes be under less stress at the side of the down tube than underneath where they are constantly being stretched and compressed.

Look at the reinforcements on that sonder signal ti advertised on here. That’s what you want.

That Sonder looks fit for purpose, the reinforcement around the cable entry holes should do the job nicely.

I just need to work out how to implement that on my current slightly broken frame 🙂

Cheers, Rich

That's a bummer.  I just don't fancy internal cabling going into the DT of a Ti bike full stop.

With steel, extra bracing can be gently added on with brass or silver solder.  With Ti, it has to be welded on, potentially weakening things even more.

That's the advantage/disadvantage of ChiTi, they will build whatever you want.

I left my cabling external.  It isn't so pretty for internet pictures, but I can't even see it while riding.  And my frame is intact...