after i asked about anglesets for 1 1/8" headtubes someone directed me to a thread on [url= http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=672117 ]mtbr[/url]
anyway, had one made,
cost $220 shipped so about £145
changes head angle by 1.5°
was shipped out yesterday, here is the production pics and finished article
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I've been watching that thread, as I wouldn't mind trying one on my 5 spot.
I'm assuming you got it direct from Saar G7?
look very good
what bearing does it use?
Cane Creek ACB 36x45°
yup got direct from SaarG7
Wow what a great idea! Quite expensive but that custom for you. How many bikes do you look at but decide against because they are a bit too steep? You could just factor the price of one of those in!
Is it standard headset only or do they do internal etc?
Are you goign to tell us how it works or do I have to trawl MTBR?
Please don't make me do that.
🙁
isn't it simply that the bearings sit in the cups at an angle?
Ah I see on the cups now.
And there's enough space within a standard headtube to accomodate 1.5 deg difference in angle?
Brilliant.
Getting perfect alignment on the cups is going to be fun though.
Getting perfect alignment on the cups is going to be fun though.
If it uses drop in cane-creek bearings then it makes little difference. Have a K9 angleset in my DH bike and i intalled that with a hammer and a bit of wood, runs as smooth today as it did a year ago. Im sure there will be plenty of internet engineers out there who will disagree tho.
shouldnt be too hard to align, im assuming thats what the milled section on each cup is for
Thanks for posting this - I wasn't aware that this could be done, so really interesting (I have geek tendencies, but I'm okay with that 😉 )
😀
no worries,
i didnt really need it, just wanted it, bike im building has custom shifters, a custom bb axle, thought i might as well have custom headset as well
is yours the std headset type dirty rider, ie std headtube with 1&1/8" steerer?
yup
bike im building
didn't occur to you to "build" one with a suitable H/A then? 😛
I do like tho..
but why so expensive when he's clearly made shit loads of them?
Some folk on here would have seated yer bearings with a mallet like that.
For free!
If these were used on some peoples mix n match bikes.. they could have a 29er fork fitted into a 26" frame (thats going to throw the head angle a bit too laid Back) but once these cups are fitted (the wrong way round) you could bring the head angle back closer to its sweet spot.DIY 69er folk will be hunting for these cups.
Is it just a straight 1.5 degree difference or are there adjustable increments in between or is it a case of a different headset for 0.5, 1 and 1.5 degree changes?
Very interesting! I'm amazed there's enough room in a 1 1/8th headtube.
didn't occur to you to "build" one with a suitable H/A then?
🙂
frame i have was more about budget, (although the budget got blown out the water for the rest of the build, i just havent got 2k to drop on the frame i want yet) and older frames tend to have steeper headangles, not that that bothered us years ago when we rode them,
no increments
would assume you could use it the wrong way round to steepen
but why so expensive when he's clearly made shit loads of them?
Because they are custom made based on the length of the headtube and the angle required.
schrickvr6 - was it you that made these?
a mate recently offered to make me a complete one off set of reducer cups on his new CNC machine thingy for nowhere near the cost of these ones. He should be pretty happy if there's a demand for them at this price. 😆
Nope just pointing out they are custom based on the length of the headtube, so running off a small batch isn't really feasable. It is quite expensive but not really much more than something like King or Acros.
Despite being made specifically for an exact headtube length and angle each set of cups will infact still fit a fair few slightly different head tube lengths and work fine albeit with slight angle change from the design. Plus, many bikes share very similar head tube lengths anyway.
Despite being made specifically for an exact headtube length and angle each set of cups will infact still fit a fair few slightly different head tube lengths and work fine albeit with slight angle change from the design.
Maybe it just my brain not functioning correctly but I don't think that's true, the angles lining up is based on the length of the headtube. Alter the length of the tubes and the cups will no longer line up, meaning the fork steerer won't even fit through both ends of the headtube. You're right with frames sharing the same lengths but I wouldn't be confident about running off a big batch and selling them. 😀
doesn't really matter what you "think" when you're wrong.
Care to back up your obnoxious comment with some fact?
You are definitely wrong but I'd still like to hear your reasoning.
Nice. Just want to see pics on the bike now.
hold on, don't get your knickers in a twist 😛
put simply, tolerances do not need to be anywhere near as tight as you seem to think for one angleset to work in a variety of similar headtube lengths.
The Cane Creek Angleset uses a spherical interface which allows the bearings to self-align regardless of headtube length.
The Saar G7 version seems to depend on normal headset bearings which are fixed in angled positions. I think these would be very dependent on being within the specified headtube lengths.
Edit: found this on Cane Creek's site
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Slightly different headtubes may be possible with the Saar because of tolerances are never exact, but there is not much scope for a large variation.
The Saar G7 version
[img] http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585480&stc=1&d=1292376122 [/img]
The Saar G7 version seems to depend on normal headset bearings which are fixed in angled positions. I think these would be very dependent on being [b]within[/b] the specified headtube lengths.
Agreed 😉
The Saar G7 version seems to depend on normal headset bearings which are fixed in angled positions. I think these would be very dependent on being within the specified headtube lengths.Agreed
Define within specified headtube length?
each set of cups will infact still fit a fair few slightly different head tube lengths and work fine albeit with slight angle change from the design
The angle will not change this is defined by the cups.
You may have a possible few mm tolerance before you'll start scoring your steerer tube and crushing the bearings, any more the steerer tube will not fit....GW originally what you were saying is you can take one angleset designed for X length headtube and this will fit Y length heatube fine, but will just alter the angle, this is not the case and that was my argument.
Edit: The first question is not aimed at Epicyclo, I agree completely.
FFS, of course it will, [b]slightly[/b].. simple secondary school geometry will tell you by exactly how much.The angle will not change this is defined by the cups.
that is NOT what I was saying at all, go back and read what I said carefully, I've already given you a clue what to look for 😉GW originally what you were saying is you can take one angleset designed for X length headtube and this will fit Y length heatube fine, but will just alter the angle, this is not the case and that was my argument.
There's at least 2 head angle modifying headset thingers available on the market that are based on a small range of sizes fitting into a variety of headtube lengths. Each one covers a small range of headtube lengths but most head tubes fall into the acceptable lengths. My Works Components kit works this way, K9 are the same I think.
People are getting very excited about the Cane Creek one just because of marketing but the fact is the existing method works, and is simpler and cheaper, and the same would apply for these things. Stop worrying about theory, look at what works in the metal.
A simple test would be to put a headset in a frame without the top portion, insert fork so that it is seated at the bottom bearing, and then see how much wiggle you have got.
That would give an indication of how much tolerance there was in the lower part of the headset.
Blimey, you guys really need to get out more....... 😉
Jesus, theres some (maybe just one) tools on here..
Jesus, theres some (maybe just one) tools on here..
Indeed.
will he be useful for fitting the headset?
just got an email through with fitting instructions, nowhere near a mac that has word at the moment,
will have a look later
fitting instructions basically say line up the marks, plus the usual headset gumpf
when i ordered i specced for 100mm headtube, asked about ability to use on other length headtubes
the answer was
The bearings are concentric with reference to an axis that is offset from the head tube axis.If you move the cups along the head tube axis, the bearings will not stay concentric.
Hence you will not be able to run the steering tube through them and maintain the correct interface with the bearings.
Acceptable tolerance for HT length before you run into problems is +/- 1mm
Is it OK to say I told you so now? 😆
anyone interested in buying this from me? frame i bought it for is for sale as i bought one of the clearout yeti's from evolution,
cost me 145 quid, would let go for 130
will fit 100mm 1 1/8" headtubes
no one?
114mm here I'm afraid but I'm going to look at making my own... would love a slacker HA
dirtyrider, do you still have this? Interested in getting one for my Intense, just checked and HT is 100mm.