[Closed] And so it begins...? "mechanical doping" first?

[quote=mrblobby ]It's more that it appears to start spinning when he drops it from a standstill right at the end that caught my eye. Rubbish video though so difficult to tell.

Not this rubbish again! The video is good enough quality to see that the left pedal is slightly behind bottom dead centre just before he drops it - guess what happens when a pedal in that position contacts the ground when the bike is dropped...

she could murder someone and get less than life

Banned from sport, hardly comparable to spending time in the big house.

she could murder someone and get less than life

She's a sportsperson. She's already presumably gambled a bit on her success, by training instead of reading books. She's gambled and lost spectacularly, and made a mockery out of her sport, the invigilators, her competitors etc in so doing. Do I think she's a terrible person deep down? No. Do I think she is alone in this? No. Do I think she should be allowed to race again? No.

I'm sure there are plenty of honest sportspeople who never 'made it' in their chosen sport - should we weep for them as well?

Hmmmmm...

She wasn't the only female rider to make a mistake a the Worlds CX championships. Helen Wyman accidently booked herself and her husband into a brothel for the weekend instead of a hotel!! 😯

Not too sure effect it had on her performance

Bet she was in a hurry to get back to check on her husband...

Bet she was in a hurry to get back to check on her husband...

I wonder if she checked his bottom bracket??? 😀

sports are what they are, cheats existed before money became involved, once the bigger bucks roll in and technology ramps up....

Yes she's old enough to know better but no way this was a solo effort and she's maybe not old enough to understand that those around her won't always be acting in her best interests.

Witch hunts are fine, send a message via a life ban to anyone dumb enough to think a motor can't be detected...but she's a child.

Greg LeMond thinks it's more wisespread than anyone has suggested...
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/motors-in-bikes-greg-lemonds-six-ways-to-eradicate-mechanical-doping/

Yes she's old enough to know better but no way this was a solo effort and she's maybe not old enough to understand that those around her won't always be acting in her best interests.

Witch hunts are fine, send a message via a life ban to anyone dumb enough to think a motor can't be detected...but she's a child.

True, but like it or not she's now a historical figure and she'll never live this down.

If I were her I think I'd be exploring the options for doing something completely different with my life.

Age 19 you're not really a child?

I don't think a extreme ban is necessary though, quite clear now to all and sundry motors are easily found so no need to make an example of her. Just ban appropriately and hopefully ( for her) she'll be able to come back after. I'd think about questioning her recent results though.

@ comment about binary, rules by there very nature have to be pretty black and white or they don't work.

Being made an example of, don't think that is fair, but if found guilty (have the uci released its findings?) then should accept the penalties. Those penalties should be the same as epo IMO but I can understand why they are saying it is worse (don't agree with that though)

Was reading the father has declared himself bankrupt in one of the stories? So he is lining himself up to dodge any fine.

19 is most definitely an adult and old enough to know better. More I read the stories it sounds like uci already suspected her of cheating.

I also saw mentioned the sponsor is suggesting they make take legal account, presumably because of reputational damage. So they are taking it seriously (if true). Fines for sponsors probably would put them off, so maybe not the best idea then...

How about they have an e bike catagory?

Willier was making noises about legal action against her and her team - quite understandably.

I suspect the cock-and-bull story is more to obfuscate matters in advance of any courtroom appearance than for the UCI. They must know they ain't getting out of that one.

It will be interesting to see if any other athletes have a sudden drop in form

Witch hunts are fine, send a message via a life ban to anyone dumb enough to think a motor can't be detected...but she's a child.

Well that's me told, I hadn't realised that this forum was full of people that were mature, sensible and grounded at age 19. At that age I was a clueless arsehole who thought the world revolved around me...never knew I was that unique.

Oh she's finished in cycling for sure even if only to protect the 'image' and stick to plausible deniability and the bad apples excuses.

macb said

Yes she's old enough to know better but no way this was a solo effort and she's maybe not old enough to understand that those around her won't always be acting in her best interests

and

Well that's me told, I hadn't realised that this forum was full of people that were mature, sensible and grounded at age 19. At that age I was a clueless arsehole who thought the world revolved around me

I'm a copper, I've charged people younger than her with serious offences that have put them in prison, but as a copper and in my 40s I know people make mistakes, that they can be misguided and led by those around them, and that at 19 I was dick who got to make my mistakes in the anonymity and low pressure environment of student life, not as an internationally-competing youth in view of the world's media. And who have been her role models - her father and brother? Not a great set-up for her.

I got the smiley but

I shall ask my 8 year old daughter, who occasionally races, whether she wants me to fit a motor to her bike. I suspect she may already know that it would be cheating

try telling her that if she doesn't win she'll let the whole family down and you'll see her as a failure and a disappointment, but that you have a solution. When's she's stopped crying let us know how it went 🙂

Lightman, cheers for the video link, even taking out the 'advertorial' element it was an interesting watch.

try telling her that if she doesn't win she'll let the whole family down and you'll see her as a failure and a disappointment, but that you have a solution. When's she's stopped crying let us know how it went

I do that anyway - it's what expected of the parent of an U12 racer isn't it? (Judging from the way some of the dads behave at these races.)

Anyway, yes you are correct. My only real point was that immaturity doesn't stop you from knowing what's right and wrong.

try telling her that if she doesn't win she'll let the whole family down and you'll see her as a failure and a disappointment, but that you have a solution. When's she's stopped crying let us know how it went

The cross race I went to recently, that seemed to be the general tone of the start line pep talks...

It's a hard sport to do well in, for sure.

Anyways, I've just been out on the CXer in the Downs and we've got 40-50mph winds blowing the shite out of the hill tops. Unfortunately at that point is my turn home, riding head into it.

I want that motor.

I do that anyway - it's what expected of the parent of an U12 racer isn't it? (Judging from the way some of the dads behave at these races.)

😉 having raced a season of CX I was about to type

The cross race I went to recently, that seemed to be the general tone of the start line pep talks.

so it's obviously a 'thing'.

ref

40-50mph winds

we're forecast them here in Oxford, and I was kind of looking forward to the biblical tailwind and a few KOMs on the commute home, but it's the usual 20mph we've had for 6 solid months out there...

I want that motor.

I demo'd a Giant e-bike last week. Astonishing up hill and I didn't notice the blasting headwind along the seafront. 3 KoMs up steep hills on Strava, including one where I reduced my time from 4 minutes odd to 2 and a bit minutes.
I had fun. 🙂

Just checked, they don't fit the 27.5 seat post 😕

That means I got to peddle the damn thing all over again in the morning then 😆

I demo'd a Giant e-bike last week. Astonishing up hill and I didn't notice the blasting headwind along the seafront. 3 KoMs up steep hills on Strava, including one where I reduced my time from 4 minutes odd to 2 and a bit minutes.
I had fun.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the attraction and how it can be fun. But it's not our sport.

Sport? Who says they're cycling as a sport? Most folk ride bikes as a pastime or recreation.

E-bike astonishing uphill? Try doing it on a GSXR1000 or similar and see how astonished you are and how many KOMs you get then. Same thing really.

davosauresex obviously has the biggest most bad ass swinging ballsack of the thread so far 🙄

[quote=IdleJon ]I demo'd a Giant e-bike last week. Astonishing up hill and I didn't notice the blasting headwind along the seafront. 3 KoMs up steep hills on Strava, including one where I reduced my time from 4 minutes odd to 2 and a bit minutes.

That's not possible, because when you select the activity type as "e-bike ride" on Strava you don't get the same segments.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the attraction and how it can be fun. But it's not our sport.

I agree, but it's worth checking these things out. A bit of knowledge and all that. One of the guys I ride with is worried that every trail in the area will be overrun by e-bikes - after a few days riding one I could pretty much guarantee that they won't be, fun as it was. (Because it was awful downhill, basically.)

That's not possible, because when you select the activity type as "e-bike ride" on Strava you don't get the same segments.

Oh dear, I didn't know that. Am now off to Strava to adjust the settings. 😳

Sport? Who says they're cycling as a sport? Most folk ride bikes as a pastime or recreation.

True. But I'd wager a good majority of riders on this forum consider it their sport, and presumably most of the people racing do too.

Ooh, that would be a good front page poll. Do you cycle for sport or just for fun?

Ooh, that would be a good front page poll. Do you cycle for sport or just for fun?

How about both. They aren't exclusive. 🙂

Well i cycle for fun but when you race its a sport - ok not when i race but when proper folk actually really race.

Its both depending on who is doing it and how hard they are trying.

IdleJon - Member

Ooh, that would be a good front page poll. Do you cycle for sport or just for fun?

How about both. They aren't exclusive.

OK, perhaps I should have written [i]only[/i] for fun 🙂

[quote=IdleJon ]Oh dear, I didn't know that. Am now off to Strava to adjust the settings.

Fair enough - I mistakenly assumed you were one of those thinking it funny to cheat on Strava 😳

But - and not having a go here, genuinely curious - is it not obvious, even if you weren't aware of the e-bike category (which is fairly new) and you weren't aware of the Strava T&Cs which prohibited e-bikes use before they had that, that it's not really on to set KOMs on one? TBH I'm surprised you didn't get your ride flagged.

I was curious how different my speed would be compared to a normal bike. How can I measure that? Oh look, I've got the perfect app. Why did no-one flag it? Maybe we're a little less precious about Strava down here? Maybe because I know most of the people who fill the top of the leaderboard? I don't know.

I really wouldn't have been bothered had my rides been flagged.

and you weren't aware of the Strava T&Cs which prohibited e-bikes use before they had that,

Can you tell me where to find that btw?

I can't find an e-bike option when setting up a bike: there's road; TT; MTB and CX

it's in activity type rather than equipment.

So it is. A bit of a silly place to put it, people aren't going to think "This was an e-ride" more like "This was a road ride on an e-bike" i.e. the categorisation is on the equipment not the activity.

Not that I've got an e-bike, maybe in 20 years 8)

400!

(Watts?)

davosauresex obviously has the biggest most bad ass swinging ballsack of the thread so far

The point I was making is that using a motor of any size isn't genuinely improving your times for pedalling a bicycle up a hill. Thanks for the props though, appreciated.

[quote=IdleJon ]Can you tell me where to find that btw?

They seem to have changed them since adding the e-bike category, hence "before they had that", though this is in the help section (and easily findable)
https://strava.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919507-Uploading-E-bike-motor-assisted-or-non-conventional-bike-data-to-Strava-Guidelines

[quote=whitestone ]So it is. A bit of a silly place to put it, people aren't going to think "This was an e-ride" more like "This was a road ride on an e-bike" i.e. the categorisation is on the equipment not the activity.

The whole point is that it's not just another bike, it's a completely different type of equipment - it has to be a different activity type to remove it from leaderboards

Thanks aracer, that may be useful.

Just to be clear, I borrowed the e-bike with the intention of doing a write-up for grit.cx (If they want to run it - its slightly away from their normal remit.).

I used Strava to work out how much quicker the e-bike is than my normal bikes. I'm not overly worried about people thinking that I've cheated, for all sorts of reasons. However, I'm happy to use the e-bike setting now that I've got the info I wanted.

The relevance to this thread? Well, I basically halved my time up a decent hill, with no extra effort and took those KoMs, on a 25kg+ beast. If I was to get a small motor into my own bike for racing, I'd be unlikely to win, but certainly I'd improve my results considerably. If I was a leading rider, then those few percent would make a difference. This was very obvious even on a hefty machine like the Giant. And a very obvious conclusion!

davosaurusrex - Member

E-bike astonishing uphill? Try doing it on a GSXR1000 or similar and see how astonished you are and how many KOMs you get then. Same thing really.

And just to answer this piece of hyperbole... 🙂

I'm sure you know that an e-bike is power assisted, so I had to put effort in to make the bike go. Considerably different from a motorbike. I'm probably a club-level fitness cyclist, if you know what I mean. I could make it go pretty quickly, as could the guys I ride with. My wife, a non-cyclist, could probably maintain enough effort to keep up with me for a couple of hours. That's probably where e-bikes will find a market, not with enthusiastic cyclists.

Of course I see that but once you employ any sort of powered assistance then the results become meaningless in relation to your best time to ride a bicycle up a given hill. I see the point you're making but when you say you halved your time up a decent hill and took those KOMs, in reality, you didn't.