[Closed] Am I being impatient

Did the insert come out of the crank arm, or did the pedal just rip the thread out?

If the latter I'm really struggling to look beyond user error.

Whether or not the damage was the result of user error (and it sounds like the OP did as much as possible to install them correctly), they have agreed to warranty them. I'd be annoyed if it took that long. If there are supply issues then that's maybe unavoidable, but I'd want to be kept informed as to what exactly the delay is caused by and given a date for when I could expect them,

Race face ride cranks so no inserts, As for it being user error, it's kind of irrelevant as they have agreed to warranty them, and if it was down to the pedal not being correctly torqued then really they should include fitting instructions with clear torque settings on them! However, they have agreed to warranty them so it's just a case of time really, as you say perhaps it is supply issues, but after spendings £££££'s on a new bike that I can't use I'm close to wanting to send it back for a full refund. 🙁 although it's not really the outcome I want

Buy SLX cranks cheap now, flog Race Face replacement when it arrives.

Win-win.

If warranty has been agreed with Silverfish then I can't see why the shop would want to delay getting you sorted. After all, it's just more time and effort for them too. They must have some explanation for the delay?

How long since the shop got the cranks to send away?

Well they must have received the cranks on the 3rd or 4th of feb so been a while, turns out, I've just spoken to silverfish who have told me what's going on, they don't have any of those cranks and as of yet can't tell me when they will have them 🙁

Buy SLX cranks cheap now, flog Race Face replacement when it arrives.
Win-win.

This is a good idea. Buy new cranks, ride new bike and be happy 🙂

In that case:

chakaping - Member

Buy SLX cranks cheap now, flog Race Face replacement when it arrives.

Win-win.

Also, XT doubles are going dirt cheap just now too if you prefer

if they have agreed - and tbh your contract is with the shop and not the supplier/maker- then they should just issue them and get on with it

Torque shouldn't matter as your pedaling action tightens them up, not loosens them. Most likely reason is that they were cross threaded on installation or the thread was damaged during manufacture.

to be honest after having spent significant amounts on a new bike the last thing I want to do (or am gonna get go ahead off the missus for) is to buy more bike stuff. I don't mind being without for a short period of time whilst the matter is sorted, but I just feel it's getting beyond a reasonable time frame now

When it is resolved you're still going to have RF cranks though..... better to have the temporary outlay then flog them to some sucker on return 😉

If silverfish can't say when new cranks will be supplied then that is a problem between silverfish & singletrackbikes, i would suggest you get onto singletrackbikes & get them to supply equivalent or better cranks instead - cost of which is down to silverfish & singletrackbikes to sort out between themselves.

Torque shouldn't matter as your pedaling action tightens them up

wrong, totally wrong. pedalling will loosen them.

OP, have you checked the pedal axles aren't seizing and causing the axle to unscrew?

best idea mentioned above is to buy new cranks and flog the others as new when they come in from warranty

The pedal axles spin ok, not loose, there is resistance but just "new pedal full of grease" type resistance if you see what I mean, it was a brand new set of hope f20's supplied with the bike

[quote=Dickyboy ]If silverfish can't say when new cranks will be supplied then that is a problem between silverfish & singletrackbikes, i would suggest you get onto singletrackbikes & get them to supply equivalent or better cranks instead - cost of which is down to silverfish & singletrackbikes to sort out between themselves.
That.

typically Hope then!

maybe the pedal threads in the crank were out of tolerance. At least its being warrantied, but to answer your initial question, no you are not being impatient.

Dickyboy - Member

If silverfish can't say when new cranks will be supplied then that is a problem between silverfish & singletrackbikes, i would suggest you get onto singletrackbikes & get them to supply equivalent or better cranks instead - cost of which is down to silverfish & singletrackbikes to sort out between themselves.

Although you need to fit Orange into that equation too as (unless it's shop built) Singletrack never bought the cranks and the customer never bought them either - as he has a receipt for a bike instead. Does the shop actually have the responsibility to replace components as part of a bigger assembly? Sounds a bit messy.

wrong, totally wrong. pedalling will loosen them.

Nope, its totally right.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession_(mechanical) ]Here's totally why.[/url]

Also, who torques a flippin pedal? That smacks of guilt to me.

Also, who torques a flippin pedal?

I do, 35nm on all mine (shimano cranks) and then check after first ride after fitting.

I would be demanding the shop sort it out ASAP.

Also, XT doubles are going dirt cheap just now too if you prefer

Ohhh. Whats the weight difference between SLX, XT & XTR doubles?

mrjmt - who torques a pedal

Errrrre me!

Why does that "smack of guilt" to you? I torque most things on my bike, simple reason, I'm a big guy and small alloy parts are easily snapped, I'm aware of this so am meticulous about making sure I do things right! That's not to say I don't ever get it wrong, but I am always very carefull to make sure things are torqued correctly. Also in this particular instance as there were no steel inserts in the cranks like on my previous bikes it is even more of a worry.

thanks for your useful contribution but that has never been an issue

thanks for the science lesson mrjmt. but....

the pedals have handed threads (as do threaded BBs) so that the the act of pedaling unscrews the pedal or bb in case of a bearing seizure. if the threads were the other way around, pedaling would permanently tighten the threads in the event of a bearing siezure.

think about the way you turn a pedal spanner to unscrew a pedal, same motion as your legs take to drive the bike.....

Anyhoo, irrelevant.

OP, get on the phone and demand a replacement, if its been agreed to be warrantied, the shop should supply you either the correct part or an equivalent.

to tighten pedals you put the pedal spanner on and spin the cranks backwards

to loosen the pedal you would spin the crank forward as if you were pedaling -

sound counter intuitive - but me and dave are saying the same thing i think..... just viewed from different reaction points. anyway it all falls round the below quote.

Bicycle pedals are left-threaded on the left-hand crank so that precession tightens the pedal rather than loosening it. This may seem counter-intuitive, but the torque exerted due to the precession is several orders of magnitude greater than that caused by a jammed pedal bearing.

Well the shop have been on the phone and told me they have been chasing silverfish nearly everyday and that they have this morning made a complaint, they have also suggested they might have a spare arm floating round the warehouse and have been told they will be sent out!

Let's see what week 4 brings, if it's a genuine supply issue then it's really annoying but not directly the shops fault, although they are ultimately the seller and responsible for replacing it for me, but il give it a few more days and see what arrives, if nothing then I will look into taking it further

I am, I haven't the patience to read a first post that long 😆

Hello guys.

This all sounds a bit weird to me for several reasons.
1) Pedal axle threads aren't generally covered under warranty. A failed thread, on a used set of cranks, is normally a result of one of several things; either a pedal inserted incorrectly (I.e cross threaded), a huge pedal strike dislodging the axle, a pedal not being tightened up correctly or a pedal axle not engaging deeply enough with the crank arm*

Clearly, if our warranty guys have a agreed to replace the cranks then that's great but I will say that's pretty unusual.

The second thing I find odd is that we can't, apparently, tell the shop when the cranks will be in.
We have to forecast all of our orders well in advance so I could tell you when we're going to receive things for the next 6 months - unless the cranks have been discontinued or are an OE specific product (I.E not a line we can carry) then I can't see how we don't have that info.
Obviously dates will vary a small amount but still, you get the point.

If you want me to take a look into this personally them just drop me a mail on Richie @ silverfish - Uk . Com

* some pedal axles 'taper' to allow easy fitting. This taper can, on some pedals, be some extreme that on a crank arm (especially if fitted with a pedal washer) simply not leave enough threads engaged.

Well, if this seems "weird" to you, then it seems even weirder to me!.....

1) you say that pedal threads are not generally covered, well that doesn't seem to be an issue, I've been told it will be warrentied, pedal was torqued and can't see it being cross threaded as it turned in by hand with ease for the most part! Could there not of been some kind of manufacture defect with the threads?(not sure what but I can't really explain why, it was only ridden for a mile or so (first climb out the car park at llandegla to top of the "out in the open bit") so not had the chance for any pedal strikes ect and in my experience that would have to be one hell of a strike, I've hit a few pedals on things in my time and NEVER had any issue from it other that loosing pins from the pedal)

The second thing that I find even odder than you do, is that I decided to call silverfish direct on Friday as I felt I was getting nowhere with the shop, I was told by silverfish that the cranks were not available and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me when they could be expected! All they could do was take my number and tell me they would call me back later in the day with some info (never did receive that call![not that I'm supprised])
So it's not just the shop that have now "apparently" had that info from you, it's me as well, also what I find strange is that your site shows stock for the double and triple versions of the same crank arms, however I couldn't see "just" the crank arms on your site (mines a single NW version but presumably they are all the same arms?

After all that I did get a call from the shop late on Friday who told me they had been calling silverfish most days to chase them up and have ended up lodging a complaint, that "apparently" has made some odd crank arms floating round the warehouse "appear" all of a sudden?

I'm not sure exactly what's going on, or who, if anyone is actually passing on genuine information, but I'm getting a bit fed up of the whole saga, all I know is I'm being fed different info from everyone, even people from the same company it would seem! The last info I have been given is that the cranks are being sent out now so I hope they will arrive early next week, if not then I may well contact you to investigate further, thank you!

Hi nutsnvolks

Message me anyway if you will, cause something's not right.
Fire me through the details and I'll look into it and find out what's going on.

Cheers

Richie

FWIW, Singletrack Bikes are good guys. Not to say they haven't ****ed up here, you understand, it's possible... but they're not out to scam you.

If you want me to pop round and wee in their shoes, I will, but I won't feel good about it.

I agree Northwind - they're a great customer of ours and good fellas.

Northwind, I agree, they seem like good guys, I got a great deal on my five and they have always been really helpful, however with this issue, something isn't adding up, there seems to be a mix of info coming from silverfish to both myself and singletrack, I don't think for a second that anyone is out to scam me, and I am sure this will get sorted eventually, just a bit frustrating when you've brought a brand new bike and after 3-4 weeks it's incomplete!

As for weeing in their shoes, lol, thanks for the offer but might be a bit drastic

I think the OP has been particularly jammy getting anyone to agree to replace something like that so I'd tread carefully if I were him....

I didn't mean it that way nutsnvolks- just thought you might like to know, you haven't inadvertantly bought a bike from scumbags or chancers, it does happen.

Yeah I know, I have re edited my post whilst you wrote that as it came across wrong lol

Boblo - don't think there is anything "jammy" about getting a defective item replaced/warrentied

I've never checked the torque of a pedal axle in my life...ever (or any other bolt for that matter).

As others say, I would just buy some other cranks for the time being and punt the others when they come back.

Lucky to get a warranty if you installed the pedals yourself. IMO.

Any big scratches on your pedals?

But it's not certain it's defective is it? More likely ham fistedness and therefore jammy because you're trading on their goodwill. QED.

And in answer to your question; yes.

sometimes holes can be drilled wrong resulting in the threads ID being too small so not enough metal which ends up easily stripping. The cranks are Race Face after all.

Maybe there has been other reports that we don't know about hence them replacing them.

Maybe the shop is such a good customer of the importer they are taking the hit anyway to maintain good relations over a newly bought bike.

Without seeing the cranks i don't think it's fair of anyone to go throwing accusations either way.

I've fitted thousands of pedals and never seen a failure as you describe OP. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen though 🙁 but it could explain the scepticism and delays your experiencing. Honestly you've been without your bike for a month !! I wouldn't miss a ride over something like this. Sort some cranks out and get riding, anything you get back from a warranty claim will be a bonus.

Boblo-Yes it is certain it is defective, the pedal came out the crank arm, that is not supposed to happen. Therefor it's defective.
As for the cause, it's not more likely hamfistedness as you put it, the pedal was torqued and wound in with ease, certainly not hamfistedness, you may not torque things on your bike, but I do, I have the tools at hand to do it, so why on earth wouldn't i?

I to have fitted many many pedals over the years, and NEVER seen anything like this, that is until now!

Anyhow, I'm gonna leave it there. There is no issues with it being replaced under warranty, the only issue is time.

To be fair, you were initially convinced it WAS your fault....[quote=nutsnvolks ]Decided to go for a spin round llandegla, as its local and I know the trails well, got there and started off up the first climb In the foot or so of snow!!! Got to the top to find the NON-drive side pedal coming off, had a look and threads in crank arm are shot!!!! Really pissed off,[b] I'm sure it must of been my fault[/b] as I fitted the pedals, however I'm really carefull with things like that and was certain it wasn't cross threaded, the pedal screwed in fine, but as it a part I fitted (despite it being a new set of f20's that came with the bike) I guess this is going to cost me very pissed off at the moment

And then you thought about a way to get yourself riding, but decided to wait?
[quote=nutsnvolks ]Cant get hold of Orange or the shop til Monday, so in the meantime, I have in the shed an SLX double and bash setup, could I just remove the double and bash and fit the narrow wide single off the race face? Will it work ok? Is the hollow tech 2 axle the same as the race face ride?

Which thread was stripped, the pedal or crank arm?

Steel axle vs alloy crank = stripped ...

Is it possible crank arms missed heat treatment ?

How likely is it someone could fit a pedal so badly it tears out? even if crossthreaded, every time I've seen that it's cut its own thread and stayed in place- it's not strong but it's strong enough.

(I tore a pedal out of an XTR crank, by somehow only threading it in a few mm then forgetting. But even that lasted a mile or so, and it was obvious what had happened. Still using them)

Scotroutes- indeed, however, after thinking about it and talking to a few people that pointed out if I'd torqued it up and it had threaded in easily then how can it be. I just assumed it would automatically be treated like that at first that as it was a user fitted part. But as we all know, the liability has already been accepted, my only issue is with length of time it's taken since the warranty was accepted as that!

As for the SLX cranks, that's correct, and I've already stated that I had a set fitted but they were off my old bike, that is for sale and so needed to refit them, the "not being able to ride" issue is something that's kind of irrelevant to me, I have other bikes I can ride, I would however like to be able to ride a new and complete bike. the issue for me is how long it's taken to resolve, and more to the point, the way in which its taken this long, if there was a date of xxxxx and that's when they will be in stock thats a bit different but no one seems to have a clue when it will be. Having said all that, as I've already said a couple of times, the shop have said they are now being sent out, so if that's correct then there really is no issue anymore.

If you're convinced it's faulty and is not been replaced quickly enough, send the bike back, get a refund and buy something else.

If you've other bikes to ride, you're not missing anything are you? You're just deferring riding the new one.

As I see it, you may or may not be at fault. The part may or may not be at fault but it's been accepted as a warranty item. This does not mean it was necessarily faulty. The replacement may be an act of goodwill considering the purchase value of the bike.

If you're not happy with the execution of that goodwill, send the bike back and buy something else.

Op - daft point but, all the rf cranks I've used had washers - did you put them on if yours did? Not one to answer on a public forum mind when warranty is an issue, just in case, but for for thought when fitting new maybe .

Forgetting the tech bits for a moment- it's been a month? Presumably everyone involved is a rider themselves and know this bloke is biking less? That's rude.

Hora, that's not the case. He's said 'I have other bikes to ride'. He shouldn't be missing any riding unless there's an episode of 'I want it and I want it NOW!, WAH WAH WAH etc.'.

Forgetting the tech bits for a moment- it's been a month? Presumably everyone involved is a rider themselves and know this bloke is biking less? That's rude.

Sadly, the fact we're riders, does not give us the magic ability to simply 'summon' up stock that does not yet exist. I do wish it did though.

Hi nutsnvolks,

I believe you should have got your replacement cranks yesterday or today? If so, great and sorry it took so long for the stock to become available.

As explained on the phone the guys in warranty at Silverfish concluded that the pedal had been cross threaded in, which is evident by the new thread marks in the crank arm. I just want to point out that nobody accepted liability or said it was warranty. It was a good will gesture for a rider that was unable to ride their new bike, which, as riders ourselves we can appreciate. The folks at Silverfish are awesome at what they do and a close supplier of ours.

Let me know if you have any problems with the new cranks, and I hope you get out and enjoy your new bike.

Oh, and Northwind...... don't wee in our shoes please!!!! We get enough of that in Bonnyrigg!!!!

Thanks
Dave

Impatient plonker 0, supportive bike trade 1?

Well despite the OP having fitted 'many pedals over the years', he still managed to screw these ones up. Hopefully he'll have the good grace to come here and give thanks for the goodwill he's received.

We'll see.

Where to start...

OP ****s his own bike

...is VERY lucky that bike shop persuades importer to replace part...

...then shop gets blame for delay.

Perhaps importers have no stock of cranks?

Mail order v buying local

Mail order v buying local

Not sure what difference that makes in this case to be honest.

Not sure what difference that makes in this case to be honest.

Other than pedals being fitted by the shop if bought locally?

edit: that's not a slight on you btw, sounds like you've been more than helpful in this case.

Shame the OP doesnt have the good grace to come on here and thank everyone in the trade for helping him out now its sorted.

boblo - Member

Well despite the OP having fitted 'many pedals over the years', he still managed to screw these ones up. Hopefully he'll have the good grace to come here and give thanks for the goodwill he's received.

I hope he comes back to the thread so we can laugh in his face. 😆

As a plus point for the shop, and thanks to this thread, I've now looked at singletrackbikes.co.uk for the first time.

That's very true simondbarnes.

The OP is probably out enjoying his machine at last, and quite rightly so!!

Cal cert for the torque wrench?

I hope he comes back to the thread so we can laugh in his face.

Hi singletrackbikes/Dave - yes, thank you, cranks are now received and have been out getting some cold evening miles in. Very happy with the new steed, rides lovely 🙂

As for the issue of them being cross threaded, let's not go there, that's not quite what you said on the phone(more a suggestion of not being done up) and as for new threads being grooved in the crank, the crank I sent was smooth(with the exception of the couple of threads left at the end) the threads had gone, any imprint would of been caused when the pedal went loose wouldn't it? Anyway, as you also said on the phone "there is no point arguing it as we have the outcome we want"

As for the suggesting "no one has admitted liability or said it was warranty" then I'm sorry but that's outright lie, i was told clearly on the phone that the "supplier has agreed to replace them under warranty"" despite the suggestion of them not being tightened, you also wrote it in an email

I have spoken to Silverfish they are the distributor for Raceface and they have asked if you can send us back the cranks they will have this replaced under the warranty.

We will need both sides to get you a replacement. The warranty should only take 2-4 days but there is a chance that it could be just over a week. Very sorry about this.

Admittedly that email was before the cranks had been sent to them, just photos, but as said it was also said on the phone.

I'm not really sure why this thread has turned into a "witch hunt" it was started purely as I was exasperated at the fact that something that had been AGREED TO BE REPLACED had taken 3 times longer than the initial quote, and merely wondered if peoe thought this was a fair timeframe or not, simple as.
As silverfish pointed out earlier in the thread, why they couldn't of just given a rough timeframe to the shop or myself in the beginning is beyond me! That's all it needed rather than the "we don't knows"

This brings back memories as this happened to me...23 years ago on my first MTB (palisades trail).

Stupidly inserted wrong pedal into wrong crank. The lads at the bike shop took pity on my spotty 13 year old face and managed to supply another crank arm. God bless them, I probably wouldn't have taken up mtbing up if it wasn't for them fixing it (no bike = no paper round = no money to replace crank arm = no bike)

Well done singletrackbikes and silverfish for being so amicable and tolerant.

[quote=matther01 ]Well done singletrackbikes and silverfish for being so amicable and tolerant.+1000

any imprint would of been caused when the pedal went loose wouldn't it?

There is still enough scarring inside the crank arm to tell, and I was of the understanding that you spoke to Silverfish on the phone about it.

The important thing here is that you are chuffed with your new steed and I'm pleased to hear you have it all built up and back together at last.

Again, apologies it took so long to get you moving but unfortunately, despite our best efforts, that is the way of the bike trade sometimes!

All the best
Dave

No problem, thank you, happy it's all sorted now and can get out on it.

nick1962 - Member

Pun of the week!

Thanks, it's always nice to know the use of my whit is worth it.

Well it's not really a witch hunt is it? OP came on rubbishing supplier/shop due to their slowness whilst insisting the crank was faulty which has been found not to be the case.

I suggested early on OP might have been jammy getting a new crankset under warranty. Warranty, a term used to describe the programme in place to support post sales issues. Usually to do with defects, occasionally good will.

Despite the nonsense above, it's pretty clear what's happened here and the bike trade have come out of this with a gold star. The OP however, mebbies should give up home mechanicing or failing that, ranting about poor service when he's actually received fantastic support. Something he still hasn't acknowledged.

He's said he's happy Miles, let's leave him alone, plenty egg on his face.

Well done Silverfish and Singletrackbikes.

[i]Op - daft point but, all the rf cranks I've used had washers - did you put them on if yours did?[/i]
I never fit these, think they are unneccesary and will reduce the thread insertion depth in the crank arm. Am I wrong?

Depends. If your pedal flange is non-circular then it can chew into an aluminium crankarm, damaging the start of the thread, so a washer is probably a good idea. If 1mm less insertion is a problem than something's already wrong.

By now, the only person who believes the OP didn't mangle his own cranks is the OP's Mum. 😆

Pedal washers aren't NEEDED per se ,they do stop any wear/indentation to the crank, but no properly fitted pedal should damage the threads.