What's the weight penalty do you reckon?
I want to keep my Patriot as light as possible without compromises, cos it's got to do all day rides and go up a lot as well as down. Currently 30.5lbs with Marzocchi 66 SL ATAs on it and a stock Manitou swinger X4 (I think).
What would be a good upgrade? I used to have coil 66s on a previous Patriot which were amazing but f me the thing weighed 37lbs. And there was no travel adjust which I reckon is essential for this brief.
Maybe less burly forks?
44 RC3Ti are pretty light and 150mm travel.
55 RC3Ti slightly heavier, slightly more travel.
Or Float/Van 36's, comparable to the 55's?
Any of those would save you 3-4lb over the coil 66's?
Forks don't seem to suffer from being air sprung as much as the rear, probably because they're lower pressures.
Weight penalty around a 1lb with a ti spring. Performance benefit over the manipoo shock significant. Plenty of cheap shocks on ebay if it's a fairly standard size to try it out.
Building a Patriot into a light bike is sort of missing the point I think. Why not sell it and buy an Orange 5?
buying a patriot is missing the point
I'm my own weight penalty
What makes you think you need a coil shock?
If you want to do all-day rides and keep it as light as possible then why not just get a decent modern air shock?
a coil shock has no place on a build where weight is a consideration
that said, i would have a coil on a patriot
a coil shock has no place on a build where weight is a consideration
I can understand why you make this argument but I don't agree with it completely.
Yes, if weight is the ONLY thing you care about and you're aim is to have the absolute lightest bike possible, then you wouldn't run a coil over damper. But then you wouldn't run any suspension of any kind; taking your argument to it conclusion you'd be running a single speed, fully rigid.
My preference is to run a coil over and still have the bike come in under 30lbs, which I have been able to do; and the Cane Creek I am running is so good that I even having run an RP23BV in addition to the Cane Creek, I ditched the RP23 and just run the CCDB now.
The marginal weight depends on what weight spring you end up with, but mine adds 272g (it's a 450lb 2.25" stroke) and the CCDB itself adds another 200g over an RP23. But the performance gain is incredible.
Weight is a big factor for me but so is performance so it's all about chosing where you compromise and where you don't (for instance I run 1x10 gearing and am somewhat compromised on my gearing but it saves about 450g in weight; sometimes I run lightish tyres and am somewhat compromised on durability whereas other times I run a dual ply DH tyre on the back and am compromised again on weight).
Note that this is the performance gain of the CCDB, not just any generic coil sprung damper. I certainly don't think that coil versus air springs are inherently better because they're coil and I'd rather have a well sorted air can than a poor coil damper.
Building a Patriot into a light bike is sort of missing the point I think. Why not sell it and buy an Orange 5?
I have a 5 as well. I still choose the Patriot often. The head angle and burlier construction and build are well worth it.
So an upgrade to coil might add what, 2-3lbs? Would probably cost £1500 tho 🙁
Mol, it'd cost you nothing like that to switch to coil. Get a DHX5, put a Ti spring on (total £250 if you go s/h), put on a 36 Van (another £300 or so s/h), and you're sorted.
Hm.
Is this CCDB worth it tho? Unsure about s/h forks and shocks tbh.
Bollocks to the weight, patriots dont really feel very light how ever much they weigh. Its never gonna climb quickly, but aslong as your tires and wheels are an ok weight then an extra couple of lb's weight in the middle of the frame wont make much differnce.
Just get a 2nd hand dhx5 or some sort of similar platform shock. If your gonna spend £1500, you may aswell sell the patriot and get a whole new bike thats more suitable.
I tend to buy decent forks and get them serviced on acquisition; that way they're in perfect condition and way cheaper than new..
Obviously if you want to buy new then it'll cost you the £1500 you mention to get a decent fork and a CCDB.
Stick with the coil. I ran a RP2 on my Patriot for a while, and went back to the coil.
Found the coil far more smooth.
that way they're in perfect condition
Unless the stanchions are worn or they're out of whack etc etc. Not saying it's wrong, but it feels like there's an element of chance here...
The thing I really miss about my old Patriot was the mid-travel support of the coil 66s. Didn't dive too much and still worked brilliantly whilst giving full travel.
What model patriot is it?
Is this CCDB worth it tho? Unsure about s/h forks and shocks tbh.
I personally think so but it depends on the bike, rider, weight etc. Really the CCDB is not that much more expensive than the alternatives and you can sometimes find them second hand.
The CCDB is simple to set up in so much as none of the ajustments have any affect on anything other than what they are intended for, but that simplicity evaporates if you're not sure what each of the adjustments actually does to the ride of the bike on the trail.
It is worth finding out though as once you've understood it, it's pretty straight forward to get just what you're looking for.
The next best thing, or even in some cases the best thing, would be something really simple, like a Fox Van R and have someone like Mojo or TF set it up for you from scratch. That would get you probably 80% of where the CCDB could get you and it would be about 40% cheaper.
Put a Van R on my remedy and it transformed it. Just a standard setup from TF tuned, nothing bling but now so much fun to ride 😛
Only 190 quid I think.
Dont notice any difference in weight/performance when climbing, These sort of bikes a just sit and spin anyway...
The next best thing, or even in some cases the best thing, would be something really simple, like a Fox Van R and have someone like Mojo or TF set it up for you from scratch. That would get you probably 80% of where the CCDB could get you and it would be about 40% cheaper.
I think patriots work best with a platform shock, my mate had a van r on his and it wasnt very nice, seemed to use alot of the travel alot of the time.
Coil here. Had a 5th Element and after Mr Flooks' goblins had done their evil suspension genius business with it I found that I was riding all round the place much faster than previously and having a lot of fun. An air shock didn't feel at all good. In fact I had so much fun that the frame snapped. Bother.
Unless the stanchions are worn or they're out of whack etc etc. Not saying it's wrong, but it feels like there's an element of chance here...
Obviously you have to be sure of what you're buying, but I've never had a problem with forks bought off here. I always want to get them re-valved etc anyway, so I tend to look for someone who's not a thrasher but just likes to recycle kit frequently. I've had a couple of sets of 36 Vans for £250-300, both of which were in outstanding condition. I've bought Ti springs s/h ('cos they don't go wrong) but to be fair I've always bought new rear shocks.
Ti springs can and do go wrong
DT it's a 2007 Patriot, came in XCEL spec, upgraded to 66 SLs.
The SLs have been a bit of an annoyance. They had the wind-down issue, well fair enough they're allowed to have problems if they fix them for free. However I can't get all the travel if I set it up to be firm enough in the mid range.. which annoys me.
I don't really have any specific issues with the shock to be honest. It's pretty floaty, but I'm not sure that bothers me. It gives a lot of pedal kick back as it floatily extends whilst you climb sometimes, but that's about it. Handles big rocks rather well it seems.
Previous one (the one with coil 66s that was nicked) had a coil DHX3.0 (the oem spec one) that must've been off a different bike as there was far too much compression damping or platform, and it was not adjustable.
I think patriots work best with a platform shock, my mate had a van r on his and it wasnt very nice, seemed to use alot of the travel alot of the time.Wrong spring rate maybe?
I have a [url= http://www.foxracingshox.com/bike/11/shocks/VAN ]Van R[/url], fox state 387g no spring.
I also have a vanilla R which must be a tad lighter because it doesn't have the expansion rez on the side. These things are highly good given they cost only 50 quid.
For any coil you need the right spring for your weight or they wont ride properly.
In a recent phone call to TF about buying a new shock off them, their view was not to bother. "ride those till they die, then send to us for a push". Discussed an air alternative, which they saw as a downgrade (kona coiler).
In terms of air over coil (for me anyway), I'm 95kg in my socks so air is not really an option.
Maybe give TF a call and discuss it? I found them to be really helpful and credit to them for not selling me a DHX coil just "because they could have".
I might, if I ever decide to do it 🙂