The MTB media rave about them but you rarely see one out on the trail ?Is it kinda like an Emperors New Clothes type situation ? 😀
They [i]are[/i] out there, I reckon you're just not really noticing them.
it's not like they have square wheels or "warning, wheels may explode without warning" notices on them. Maybe you are just not noticing them as generally they are preferred by taller riders so still look in proportion.
I'm sure I will stick out like a sore thumb on mine (it's a little 16" one)
U should ride around here, ten a penny they are
Hardly "Emperors New Clothes" most of us have been riding them for years.
I started getting rid on my 26er's for 29er's back in 2007
Bike of choice for those in the know high up in the NW Alps, although there are a few still on training wheels...
I've ridden with plenty of folk who only found out I was on a 29er at the end of the ride in casual conversation and had not noticed for the hours of following my back wheel.
Also, we are talking about new bikes - what percentage of bikes you see out on the trails are new 2011/12 models? 5-10% max in this current economic climate maybe? And if 30% (it won't be that much) of all new bike sales were 29ers that would mean 3 out of every 100 bikes you see out of the trails would be new 29ers - that's even if you noticed them.
Just a fad. Like WiFi. My all knowing mate at work spent a fortune running ethernet cables all over his house, as he honestly believed WiFi was a fad. So no. Big wheels are just a fad. They will die out. Like disc brakes & suspension. Put your money into filing cabinets. PC's are dying out. Buy up filing cabinets now. And ring binders.
3 in 100 isn't 30% ?
where can I get these filing cabinets - Halifax ?
(10% of 30% is what convert was getting at)
3 in 100 isn't 30% ?
You is rubbish at maths!
reread - 30%(best case estimate of mtb sales being 29er) of 10% (best case senario of bikes you see whilst riding being spanking new - this might be higher in Surrey!) is 3% or if you like, 3 in 100.
My all knowing mate at work spent a fortune running ethernet cables all over his house, as he honestly believed WiFi was a fad
😀
superb
Bike doesn't carry enough speed across the ground? Learn to pedal harder and mtfu.
Bike doesn't roll over rough terrain easily enough? Seriously, learn to ride and mtfu.
Bike doesn't feel right cos you're too tall? Never heard Peaty, Cam Cole or Ben Cathro complaining. Mtfu.
If you want a hybrid with chunky tyres for bridleways, well fair enough I suppose 🙂
Bike doesn't carry enough speed across the ground? Learn to pedal harder and mtfu.Bike doesn't roll over rough terrain easily enough? Seriously, learn to ride and mtfu.
Bike doesn't feel right cos you're too tall? Never heard Peaty, Cam Cole or Ben Cathro complaining. Mtfu.
I've got a foot in both camps and even to me that's some lame trolling!
If there had been some significant R&D at the time that concluded 26" was the definative best size to base all future mtb design around you might have a point but it was an accident. On the other hand the 29er alternative is just ripped off from road bikes so equally unobjective. If I'm honest I'm really not sure the wheel size is the first thing I notice when I ride an mtb - bar width, saddle the bar drop, tyre type and pressure all have more effect to me.
The MTB media rave about them but you rarely see one out on the trail
I reckon the writers (and readers) of MTB magazines are the minority of cyclists you'll meet. Popular amongst the kind of people who read about bikes all day and popular amongst people who have one bike in the shed and ride it a weekends are very different things
I jolly well hope to be purchasing one of these very soon 🙂 and my other half is now tempted too.
I've seen 29ers every time I've ridden for the last 5 years.
I have the 2012 spesh cataloge beside me from their thing yesterday at ourn local concept store (highlight: JMC's bike and food!)
As far as I can see where there is a spesh bike available in the same spec in both 26" and 29", the 29er is £1-200 more expensive.
Bearing in mind a 21" frame is not usually any more costly than a 15" one even if it has a bit more material in it, and bear in mind that I am talking about the exact same spec apart from the rims on a couple of bikes, presumably not available in 29", I can't understand how the extra materials involved in longer tubes, fork legs, rims, tyres, tubes, spokes add 10% to the shop floor price, given that the non-marterial costs for building, transporting, storage and sale are largely of not entirely the same. 😕
If it was me, and my assumptions about the cost of producing a 29er are anywhere near the mark, I would be pricing them the same as same-spec 26ers for a few more years to get people 'converted'.
When it was all steel inbreds and alloy scandals, on-one seemed to manage to do this without the buying power of the big S. There is still no difference in price between the exact same on-one frame where it is available in 2 sizes.
Well im going retro... getting a 26er in the next couple of weeks
As far as I can see where there is a spesh bike available in the same spec in both 26" and 29", the 29er is £1-200 more expensive.
Which one?
I really like having a 29" front wheel on the rigid (soixante neuf=les boef!) Not sure I'd want a fully 29er rigid unless it was quite light, I need as much acceleration as I can get in the slop. Big wheels lend themselves well to the jhey-mince end of riding and 26" (or normal wheels) are obviously great for gnar-core. My fs is 26" and I'm very happy with it as such, the rigid is more of a training tool with a bigger wheel to negate the lack of suspension.
Try one out, I think the benefits are specific unlike the BikeRadar suggestion that 29ers are better in all senses. There are so many other variables which affect the ride that often comparisons are hard to make.
What kind of riding are you into and what conditions are you faced with?
I think the Emperor is busy riding his fatbike 😉
As far as I can see where there is a spesh bike available in the same spec in both 26" and 29", the 29er is £1-200 more expensive.
Singlespeed_Shep - MemberWhich one?
Camber 29 £1900
Camber Elite (26") £1800 (this one actually looks like it has more expensive rims than the otherwise same spec 29er
Carve comp 29 £1000
Rockhopper expert (26") £800 (29er frame is 'manipulated' rather than butted, but not £200 nicer 'manipulated', otherwise same spec)
At least the prices for what seem to be the same spec women and men's versions are the same though. The women's fate carbon 29er hardtail looks pretty nice, mrs j is borrowing one this weekend apparently. Unlike the 2 older women's spesh's she's had, this one doesn't even look that 'girly' either: hopefully she will let me have a quick go too.
Yeah don't get that, i'm spec will have a reason
It's just a bike
The MTB media rave about them but you rarely see one out on the trail
I'm the only rider in our clique that doesn't own a 29er HT/rigid. 26" wheeled FS bikes seem suddenly to have become an oddity.
+ 1 ti_pin_man
If the industry marketeers could think up a reason for square wheels being better at every conceivable size from 12" to 36" just to extract more of your hard earned £'s.... they would.
For me, it boils down to aesthetics... 26" wheels look in proportion and 'right', whereas 29" wheels give the MTB frame a kinda gangly look - a bit like a puppy whose legs are growing quicker than it's body. Although generally, the puppy will grow into some sorta proportion.... and they have cute waggy tails.
I am extremely bored of the mainstream UK biking press/journos trying to crawl up the industry backsides though.
You don't see them round here in the Peak. Mind, even when I was riding at Glentress 3 times a week I never saw one.
I've seen maybe 3 in the wild, a few more at races, but mostly under guys who're given bikes.
Working in shops for the last 5 years I've personally dealt with maybe 4 customers who were interested in 29ers and only 1 who I suggested a 29er to.
They're popular on the internet and in the mags, but your average MTBer that doesn't spend half their working day on STW isn't interested in them. They like mid range 5" full suspension bikes with 26" wheels.
You don't see them round here in the Peak
you do where we ride in the peak, lots of 'em
we're just usually out very early of very late, so trails of cheekyness can be employed
Think about it most upgrades can be added to a bike but changing to 29 means a new frame, forks, wheels, tyres - the bike industry must be laughing all the way to the bank.
29er just feels right to me at 6' 2"
29" works perfectly for me in NE Scotland / Highlands.
i'm 6' though....
short stem, 750mm bars. perfect.
27.5 ers are where its at..
As far as I can see where there is a spesh bike available in the same spec in both 26" and 29", the 29er is £1-200 more expensive.
it will be heavier and owned by a mtb bore too.
For me, it boils down to aesthetics... 26" wheels look in proportion and 'right', whereas 29" wheels give the MTB frame a kinda gangly look
shortarse.
this is the last 26er i will ever buy:
[img][url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6158/6171351695_93c6103ce2.jp g" target="_blank">
i should point out that my saddle was too low in that photo, but it wouldn't go any higher...
For me, for where & how I like to ride, for how I like bike to feel & handle &for what I am ultimately looking for from a bike these days...my Niner fits the bill. I'm happy.
And I think you probably ride alongside plenty of big wheelers without noticing. First time out on my Inbred my mates didn't notice until I pointed it out.
20 or 24 inch wheels are where it's at- face it, you're old and past it if you're considering a 29er. Nowt wrong with that though, just face it.
Why would I ever want a bike with bigger wheels?
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
out on the trail
i can count on one hand the mountain bikers i have seen out on the trail all year.
how many people do you see out - say on an average weekedn ride?
This:
Try one out, I think the benefits are specific unlike the BikeRadar suggestion that 29ers are better in all senses. There are so many other variables which affect the ride that often comparisons are hard to make.
Test a 29er/26er with the same spec / touchpoints on the same trails / trails you ride the most and decide.
Above all, enjoy whichever bike you decide to ride.
I love these threads. They are so totally full of drivel from both sides.
Having said that I am loving the big wheels at the moment they maintain speed better and don't seem to have any significant downsides!
I am sure 26ers have their place. - just not being ridden by me at the moment.
Yet another reason to run from the bank to your nearest bike shop and buy, buy, buy....
Having said that I am loving the big wheels at the moment they maintain speed better and don't seem to have any significant downsides!
Complete drivel! 😉
I can't understand how the extra materials involved in longer tubes, fork legs, rims, tyres, tubes, spokes add 10% to the shop floor price, given that the non-marterial costs for building, transporting, storage and sale are largely of not entirely the same.
You never mentioned designing and R&D, the 29er is new, therefore more R&D needed. Add tot hat the number sold is less. Bigger development cost divided by smaller number of units = increaced price.
Also the building cost isn't the same, to hydroform a tube you need a mould for each tube in each size, less 29ers sold means less frames to spread the cost of moulds, jigs, other tooling accross.
On-One manage it by not doing anything fancy, so a steel framed 29er based on their steel framed 26er is just the same with longer tubes, maybe going up a tubing size and tweeking the butting profile, but as long as they hit the minimum required for a run of tubing they're OK, thus the frames can be made quickly and cheeply regardless of size.
I've gone 29er and won't go back, 26" XC bikes just feel a bit mehhhhhhh now, like they take lots of effort to keep moving and are just trying to shake you to pieces.
like they take lots of effort to keep moving and are just trying to shake you to pieces.
😆
haha, it was meant (at least slightly) tongue in cheek.
But I have just sold my 26" XC bike after buying a Swift on a whim and deciding the 26" bike was now redundant for out the door singletrack type riding.
Still got the Pitch though, although I've a complete lack of desire to ride if after it broke my arm in Spain :*(
Loving my 29er now, it covers distance easily and I wouldn't race on anything else.
BUT
Also loving my 26er for playing in the woods and less serious rides.
NO I DON'T WANT A 27.5er..................
I have recently gone 29er (yeti big top)
Since building it up I haven't got my 575 out of the shed other than to move the mower.
On super gnarly stuff I would say a 26" wheel is probably better peaks, lakes etc etc but for general XC stuff the bigger wheel rolls better has higher levels of traction and takes bumps out a treat.
It does look a bit out of proportion I agree a bit like bambi TBH.
On the basis I have a bike to ride not to just look at, and I am according to my mates quicker up and down on a 29" wheel
Try it whats the worst that can happen?
Try it whats the worst that can happen?
Shrapnel from the exploding wheels rips your knackers off.
It's true. It happened to a mate of mine. Twice.
On-One manage it by not doing anything fancy, so a steel framed 29er based on their steel framed 26er is just the same with longer tubes, maybe going up a tubing size and tweeking the butting profile, but as long as they hit the minimum required for a run of tubing they're OK, thus the frames can be made quickly and cheeply regardless of size.
On-one managed it with the competitively-lightweight alloy scandal 29er for same cost too. With their economies of scale (for worldwide, actually probably just in the US, Spesh will sell many times more 29ers than on-one will sell of all their bikes put together) how do Specialized still need £1-200 more per bike for the same thing? The addidional r&d, hdrofirming different size tubes and so on do not manage to add any price to spesh's women's bikes for identical model/spec yet their blurb talks extensively about tubes and geometry, many of which are hydroformed on both male and femal versions of the same frame. The two examples of spesh 26/29er I referred to have frames as similar/dissimilar to each other as a 29-er scandal is to a 26-er, with the same engineering challenges as on-one had (lightweight alloy 100mm-ish bike) only with the financial advantage to spesh and to the customer of many many more 'units shifted' to offset the r&d costs through. They are also marketed better though. 😉 (no offence on-one!)
I like bikes and I like the way the bike industry comes up with new bikes and designs. It means my lovely friends still have jobs in bike shops, I don't get bored with them (bikes not my friends!) and can keep on liking bikes. Imagine if we all only had one type of bike available to us....
variation and choice is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...and I am according to my mates quicker up and down...
So am I after I've bought something new and shiny, dont worry it'll soon wear off...
Think about it most upgrades can be added to a bike but changing to 29 means a new frame, forks, wheels
So a bit like when we went from v brakes to disc brakes then. 😉
Thinking back there were quite a few people that thought discs were un needed too. 😆
The only time I've seen a 29er out and about is when I've look down at what I'm riding (err, so quite often then really I guess, as that's what I ride).
It's been at least 18 months since I bumped into a MTB in the lanes (and that was a pal who's since bought a CX bike anyway). Virtually verything I see is either some kinda road / touring / commuter bike, or BMX's.
An' I wouldn't use wireless networking if you paid me to - I like the security of a hard-wired network (not to mention not having to worry about the localised effects of the non-ionizing radiation at 'wifi' frequencies (and no, I don't use a cellular phone either unless it's [i]absolutely[/i] unavoidable)).
😉
I've just gone from this:
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
to this:
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
TBH I've been sold on the technical merits for a while, but cash flow and timing have been the limiting factors for trading out to the 29er.
I've literally only just got the Solaris built up after selling the Ti before christmas, and the most obvious thing I've noticed is that its nice to have a hardtail again...
I might have to get one of these 29ers, rode some trails today really really fast. Then I remembered it was only visceral speed.
Gutted cos I can't afford to like them at the moment.
29er's are definitely over rated, over priced and very dull compared to a nice 26er.
Don't bother! 😉
scienceofficer - report needed on differences PLEASE !
my nicolai ac 29er will be joined by a 29?" HT and my Ti456 relegated at some point too,,,,,,,,,,,
[img] 
[/img]
Will be building up a 26er HT from my parts bin when I get time, firstly because the parts are all there but mainly so that I can compare a 26er again to my 3 month old 29er...going to try to keep an open mind, despite already anticipating the result 😀
Edit chainslap, your head is massively disproportionate to the rest of your body 😯
Slapper!
Not as much as the football!
Nothing new to read here then ,
A friend has a 29er that seems good and looks sensible because he is tall but he says it is hopeless in the mud because the long contact area gets bogged down and then the wheels also weigh a ton. He uses it when it is not too wet and seems pretty fast but he is pretty fast and I suspect that is the truth. The problem with mud seems logical but has never been raised on line as far as I have noticed despite the huge amounts written. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed.
hopeless in the mud because the long contact area gets bogged down and then the wheels also weigh a ton.
😆 thats a good one, thats not true mate
how do *insert big brand name here* still need £1-200 more per bike for the same thing?
I could give you the cynical answer. TINAS as right in theory but in practice / mainly, only new carbon frames have that kind of R+D vs units calcs applied. No-one really opens molds for HF tubes in each size, maybe Giant since they own all their HF kit. Most HF stuff is done by 2 companies here and it's open molds.
I'd expect the higher cost is just a 're-balancing of rrp oppportunity' in the face of rising costs in the far east and something new 'withstanding' it. A bit of it new stuff and a bit more materials too, but maybe not that much. Maybe.
Anyway. 29ers. hmm isn't it wasn't it. I was talking to a colleague from an earlier job last night and we were reminiscing about all the chats about the 29er negatives raised (including a few by me, I wasn't an early adopter personally) about the 29ers that we had out in ~2005. Seems a long time ago now.
Science Officer hanging out at the Swan again i see ! 😆
Fenred, irrespective of my disproportionate head, please acknowledge the fact that I can operate a lap top computer before the age of 1. 😀
hopeless in the mud because the long contact area gets bogged down and then the wheels also weigh a ton.thats a good one, thats not true mate
Well, it's probably true that a 29" tire can have more mud stuck to it than a 26".
... hopeless in the mud because the long contact area gets bogged down...
Ah, that'll explain why tractors have got such small wheels.
I have to say, that 'Hopeless in the mud thing' is just plain wrong. He must be weak or something. Maybe he had the trots that day, or was wearing his sisters pants? ;o)
TLR.
Difficult to say at the moment. I've put so many hours on the Ti I knew it inside out, and thats not the case with the Solaris.
I've also changed the emphasis on the build a little. - I've gone up a size on the 29er so its longer, with a shorter fork.
So far, its a bit less 'pop-and-hop' that the Ti and a little slower to turn - These are not massive differences though - easily stuff that I will adjust my riding style to.
Biggest factors for me are rolling speed on rough ground and grip.
Huge; I mean huge levels of grip.
In the schlocky Mendips I've been using a Racing Ralph on the rear and its gripping comparably with a Bonty Mud-x in 26 on the ti, but with the extra rolling speed everywhere else. Add that to the whole 'not-hooking-up-on bumps' thing that 29er are famed for, it makes for a likeable combination. Oddly, I notice this the most on some of the local DH runs, where the braking bumps and G-out holes seem to be quite a bit smaller, and on climbs, where it just keeps on rolling, resulting in less situations where one loses momentum on some kind of tech feature, like a step up - obviously running a singlespeed, this is a helpful attribute to keep momentum.
It carries speed very well and is very composed. Cy makes specific reference to this being quick over the ground and he's not wrong. With a geared setup this will be a serious mile muncher if you chose to build it that way.
My other bike is a 2011 turner 5spot that I've had for about 6months and its quite an agile 'pop-and-hop' bike for me, so I've built this up to be as different as possible from that, for variety's sake and to increase the differences between that and the SS 29er.