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Now, what wheels do we need?
26" or 29er?
with a single 36 or 28T chainring up front
Ooops, that was meant to say "36T or 38T"
Potential of ripping the mech off / getting continually caked in mud etc is far worse than not so slick shifting.
Oh, the shifting is slick enough alright... No clunks, thumps or anything, unlike a derailleur setup. It just doesn't like changing to an easier gear under too much load. Which in reality is much better long term than a derailleur setup that will change to an easier gear under a lot of load, with lots of crunching, ultimately wearing your cassette away quite quickly. Even on my derailleured bikes, I've always been the kind of person to be as kind as I possibly can to the gears in use, and try to pre-shift to an easier gear before I might need it. XT cassettes ain't cheap after all!
I could always adjust the gearing though to suit.
You could. Tandem Jeremy recently ran 22T up front with an 18T cog iirc. Wouldn't recommend that personally, it's outside of Shimano's recommended gearing range (based upon the torque load the clutch in the hub is rated for), but by the sounds of things he didn't kill it. Gave him the equivalent of just the granny ring with an 11-34T cassette!
I'm running 34/22 on my 29er, gives me the equivalent bottom gear of 22T chainring with 27T cog, and equivalent top gear of 32T chainring with 12T cog on the back. So compared to a dual ring setup, I'm missing the very bottom gear, and the very top gear essentially. Compared to a 3 ring setup I'm only missing the very bottom gear, and the three tallest gears in the largest chainring... So in reality my current gear ratio covers about 95% of my normal riding... I just have to get out the saddle a bit more on a couple of climbs, and coast a bit on fast DH onroad sections...
Just seen on your other thread that you're 6ft 6 and 18 stone...
In which case, DEFINITELY do not go out of the Shimano recommended gearing range (of which lowest recommended is 32/20 or equivalent iirc) as at your size you're likely to put a lot more torque through the clutch than me at a tad shy of 12 stone...
People with Alfine set ups where have you place the shifter on the bar, has anyone managed to squeeze it between the brake lever and the grip?
I ask as when I rode a Charge Duster 8 last year I found that I had to move my hand from the most natural position on the grips (i.e. where I could brake) to downshift. This was with the shifter inside of the brake lever.
People with Alfine set ups where have you place the shifter on the bar, has anyone managed to squeeze it between the brake lever and the grip?
Due to the design of the Alfine shifter, there's no way it will fit outside of the brake lever sadly...
You're more than welcome to pop round and try it on my 29er though if you want mate...
You get your Tricross sorted incindentally?
Can I just echo what maverick boy said - ! went very low on the gearing but I knew I wan't going to be really mashing the gears and I am 12.5 stone. It was very silly tho - spinning away at 3 mph and spinning out at 14 mphish
32/20 will give you a reasonably low gear and I thought you could go to 32/23 which gives a fairly low gear. rear sprockets are fairly cheap to experiment with as well. £5 or so IIRC
Edit - if you take the indicator off the shifter you can fir it between lever and grip or use the nexus twistie
You're more than welcome to pop round and try it on my 29er though if you want mate...You get your Tricross sorted incindentally?
I do want to have a spin on your 29er at some point, the question was purely just curiosity.
No to the tricross, going to take it to the shop at some point this week.
Saccades - MemberEdit - Ah you qualified yourself. So your saying the alfine weighs about 3.5lb... which is what it weighs... then the shifters and cables would cancel out. Your 8lb statement was very misleading.
No, I am saying the Alfine set-up is about 2.5lbs heavier. Read the post properly.
I agree that saying 'There's about 8lbs difference between the bikes although the heavier forks and tyres will account for part of it.' But 'very misleading'? No.
mk1 fan - its a lot less than that. The hub weighs 3.5lbs. You have to take the weight of a standard hub, casette, mech, off from that.
Shimano deore hub - thata 400+ g or so I believe plus a cassette - deore is 350 grammes = a mech - 300 g - call over a kg. alfine complete ( I am discounting the cables and lever as both set ups ancd comparing 1x8 with the alfine) 1.6 kilos - so its 600 grammes ish - call it a lb and a half.
TJ,
You're just wrong. The frames weigh similar, the heavier components are accounted for, the remaining weight difference is all down to the Alfine. If the scales are wrong they'd be wrong on both of them.
I'm not running bottom spec components which would weigh nearer to the Alfine.
I'm really happy with my Alfine but it is heavier and more than you're quoting.
Mk 1 fan - go look at weight weenies. someone on here weighed their hub at 1.6 kgs - thats 3.5 lbs. Are you telling me that your 1x9 dérailleur set up weighed a lb? According to weightweenies its nearer 2.5 lb for deore 1x9
Did you forget to include the weight of the hub?
where are my figures wrong?
Sorry - its you who has miscalculated - you simply cannot get a cassette, rear hub, QR and mech for onepound in weight.
Alfine hub - 1600g
Alfine sprocket - 50g
XT M772 medium cage mech - 227g
XT 11-34 cassette - 300g
XT M775 disc hub - 411g
That in my book means the Alfine set up is 700g heavier than an XT rear end. Of course I am ignoring the fact you lose the weight of a LH shifter and a front mech.
And of course you use shorter spokes with an Alfine hub so there is a few grams saved too 😛
seems about right to me Mister P. I got 600 grammes on the back of a fag packet. Now way is it 1,2 kg
What are you talking about?
I've broken down the weight differences between the bikes already and the result is the Alfine set up adds about 2.5lbs to my bike set up.
Again, I don't see why you're mentioning Deore (which would reduce the weight difference). I've said that bottom / entry range components haven't been used.
Hence why my figures are for XT V Alfine.
I was typing whilst you were posting.
The situation is that on my bike set up the Alfine adds about 2.5lbs to the overall weight.
Deal with it ladies and move on.
F*Ck the weight, has anyone tried to use one for DH? Will it just explode. Im sure this a more important question!
One of the guys here ran one on a Dialled Bikes Alpine last season in the Alps.
Seen a few used and abused but not for DH. I did drops and jumps on mine contrary to Shimano's guidance for the last 14-months and there was no damage when it was serviced. I'm not light at 15-stone plus in my kit.
Although, I have read threads where they've imploded being used on a commuter.
Mk1 fan - sorry you are clearly wrong. I don'yt know waht 1x9 set up including a hub you can get that weighs under a lb. Go look at MrPs figures.
TJ,
I reitterate -
The situation is that on my bike set up the Alfine adds about 2.5lbs to the overall weight.
Deal with it ladies and move on.
I'm really tempted by the io id, Genesis
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/io-ioid/
Could you live with this as your only mountain bike? (within the normal constraints of a 100mm travel hardtail)
I'd gear it right down I think, I just don't seem to use high gears that often off road
Does the hub feel good pedalling in a gear. Or is it a bit soggy and ineffiecient feeling?
How can it? Simply impossible old chap - the hub weighs 3.5 lbs and the components it replaces weigh 2 lb .
You have missed something out. You simply are wrong. Arithmetic does not lie.
ampthill - I like it but it but the lack of range of gears is a bit of a shortcoming when I am used to 2x9 and you get 1x9 with the alfines.
I know that the hub at glentress hs then as hire bikes and I guess other places do as well if you want to try them out.
I've heard the 32:20 min gear ratio thing loads of times, can anyone point me in the direction of an official Shimano document that sets this lower limit, the only time I've read this is in reviews and on forums. I currently run 32:20 but in the past I've happily stood on the pedals with 32:22.
[url=
my alfine [/url]heres a pi
I have not been able to find one nor any indication of one and my understanding was that 32/23 was the lowest allowable. My 22/18 is well lower than that. I didn't stand on the pedals tho
i work in a shop and we have an Alfine built into a black 317 as in my previous pic, not the same but another one for sale including shifter fitting kit and cog for £225. if your iunterested let me know.
Someone remind me and I will look into the min/max sprocket size at work in the morning.
Sadly having done the maths I don't think the range is quite big enough for me. This is due to my desire for a lowest gear of 22 30 equivilant.
Oh well its a great concept.....
ampthill - alfine on 32 / 23 gearing give a bottom gear of 22 / 30 equivalent with a top gear of 32 /14 equivalent. according to the fine calculator some chap whose name I forgot gave me.
go look at weight weenies. someone on here weighed their hub at 1.6 kgs
I was curious! 😳
ampthill - alfine on 32 / 23 gearing give a bottom gear of 22 / 30 equivalent with a top gear of 32 /14 equivalent. according to the fine calculator some chap whose name I forgot gave me.
OK, this time I was bored and curious! 😳
I've heard the 32:20 min gear ratio thing loads of times, can anyone point me in the direction of an official Shimano document that sets this lower limit, the only time I've read this is in reviews and on forums. I currently run 32:20 but in the past I've happily stood on the pedals with 32:22.
Can't remember who/where it was, but I spoke to someone about this who had already enquired via Shimano about this... Basically, anything down to 32/20 is deemed as ok, anything lower and don't expect to be able to warranty it if anything goes wrong... If they can of course prove it. I don't think it's a set in stone thing, more of a min. recommendation that they go by, rather than using a min. weight limit. Of course, they could go the other way and say that you are free to use whatever gearing you want, but nobody over 10 stone can ride one...
One guy in the states was running a 26/22 setup on his apparently. At 18 stone and riding big hills all day, he managed to strip the clutches on his, which is the torque related issue that Shimano are warning against. To be fair though, I think (can't be 100% sure) he got it fixed under warranty. But of course he had to send it back, and that's a load of hassle etc.
Think of it more like this... At 18 stone would you run a set of coil sprung forks with the Standard Medium strength Spring, or would you buy the Extra Firm spring before riding it? At 12st I can get away with the medium, and won't kill my forks, but if I were 18st I'm going to exert a lot more force on it. Rockshox isn't saying they wouldn't fix my fork if I ran it undersprung, but you could pretty much guarantee I'd bugger it up in a short space of time if it was that severely undersprung if you get my drift...
So my advice based on that is if you're a big guy, don't expect to be able to gear it down that much... If you're similar weight to myself, you can probably get away with doing what TJ did and running a 22T up front if you so desire...
Sadly having done the maths I don't think the range is quite big enough for me. This is due to my desire for a lowest gear of 22 30 equivilant.
Using a 34/22 on mine gives me an equivalent bottom gear of 22/27... Was worried it'd kill me, but honestly, it's like 1 gear difference on a 9spd cassette... Try it, it'll put hairs on your chest if nothing else! 😉
Does the hub feel good pedalling in a gear. Or is it a bit soggy and ineffiecient feeling?
VERY direct, not at all mushy. I've ridden plenty of freehubs on "normal" hubs before that are a lot less direct and feel mushy in comparison.
Again, anyone else wants the gear calculator spreadsheet, just email me... Email is in my profile...
I normally run single speed 32/18 on my 29er but round these parts are very hilly and you get no rest when your out with a group so i took a punt and bought a built alfine wheel running it the same 32/18 set up.yes you have to back of for it change gear sometimes if under load but it aint that bad. I tend to just keep it in 4th and only use other gears on killer hills or fast road keeping up.
Recommended? yes.
So my advice based on that is if you're a big guy, don't expect to be able to gear it down that much... If you're similar weight to myself, you can probably get away with doing what TJ did and running a 22T up front if you so desire...
surely it's a power rather than a weight issue?
you might be a hefty chap but have weedy legs??
It's weight AND power. Lots of power but little weight would be fine and lots of weight but little power ditto. Heavy riders with lots of power will be really bad (that's me then!). Typically though bigger guys will be more powerful though their power to weight ratio will be lower which makes them less good at hill climbing.
surely it's a power rather than a weight issue?
It's a torque issue, not power...
Torque kills gearboxs and clutches (which is what the Alfine is) not Power...
A Big heavy guy is going to exert a lot more toque on the hub than a much smaller guy, simply by standing on the pedals! OK, Lance Armstrong might exert even more torque again still by being a superhuman with an incredibly efficient pedalling technique, but none of us are that I suspect!
Power = Torque x (Rotational) Speed
Remember that!
So Power is kind of irrelevant if the speed is increased. A Big Guy churning the pedals at 50rpm but applying 100Nm of torque is producing the same Power as a small guy spinning the pedals at 100rpm but only applying 50Nm of torque.
The Big Guy is going to kill/wear out things much faster though!
Typically though bigger guys will be more powerful though their power to weight ratio will be lower which makes them less good at hill climbing.
if their less good at getting the power down for hill climbing they're obviously inexperienced riders so it shouldn't affect the hub if you know how to climb???
if their less good at getting the power down for hill climbing they're obviously inexperienced riders so it shouldn't affect the hub if you know how to climb???
EH? 😕
Climbing ability/efficiency has more to do with Power/Weight ratio, as clubber mentioned, than technique really. For a given climb at least, where we're assuming something quite long and not technical.
And again, as Clubber mentioned, a big guy is [b]likely[/b] to have a lower Power/Weight ratio than a smaller guy of similar fitness.
Experience and skill would only come into play on a technical climb.
I have an alfine on my commuter / trainer.
Done about 8-10000 miles on it now, with no serious problems.
Its very very good for a high milage bike, and if you can't be fannied with maintenance.
It does distribute a lot of the weight to the rear of the bike - not sure if I would want that on a mountain bike. It is heavy too.
what i'm trying to get across is that surely a "big" rider can ride light with experience.
Reading about a bit the Description on the IO seems to suggests the Alfine hub produces the equivalent of an 11-38t cassette in terms of gearing range, I also found the Alfine group’s own crankset which is apparently available in either 39 or 45 tooth flavours, suggesting shimano haven’t quite gotten their heads away from the higher geared Nexus tow path pootling application with Alfine, despite what a lot of people are using it for…
My guess would be (and it is a guess) that one of the mid range gears (4th or 5th ) is 1:1 so whatever your “input gearing” ratio; 32/20, 32/23, 39/28, 45/30? You will actually be running this gear in the middle of your range with the alfine and your range is basically +/– 3-4 steps this ratio either side, maybe ~20% a step?
I’m currently using a 32/22 chainset with an 11-28t 8speed cassette I was mulling over switching to a 36/22 chainset with an 11-32 cassette to give me a wider gearing range (currently it ranges from ~ 75-20 “Gear inches” with the changes I’m considering I’d get ~ 85-18 Gear inches, and a bit less “ratio replication” assuming I’ve calculated correctly) as it is I spend 95% of my time in the “mid” ring and run out of gears on the flat/road, and use the granny if I’m faced with a nasty climb as the top 4 sprockets are my get out of jail climbing gears, I like having at least a couple of easy gears in reserve, and I could live without a massivly Grr gear but wouldn’t want to be any worse off than my current 11-32 top ratio…
I know you’ll never get the range of a double or triple x8/9 speed but just how far off of producing a similar gearing spead would an Alfine be? In terms of ultimate top and bottom end gearing? I presume if you want a get out of jail climbing gear you have to sacrifice the taller gears and vice-versa, but is it a massive amount?
Should I even be considering the alfine instead of yet another 2x8 setup or am I the “wrong sort” of rider?
An alfine produces the same gear spread as a 11/34 cassette. If used with 32 / 18 gearing the ratios are virtually identical to 32 chainring with an 11/34 cassette Obviously buy altering the ratios you move this up and down the scale. It is equivalent to a 1x9 not 2x9 hence I had to gear right down when I wanted granny gears for the 'puffer.
I believe one of the intermediate gears is 1.1 but strangely it is no direct drive and still goes thru the geartrain.
Ask maverickboy for his gearing calculator - it makes it easy to see.
The 11-34T spread is if you run the 18T sprocket. With a 20T sprocket you get 12-38T.
5th is 1:1
Mr P - that is a bit confusing IMO to put it that way - the gear spread is the same from the hub - you have just moved it up and down the range by altering the overall gearing. It doesn't matter if you alter the overall gearing at the chainring or sprocket.
Ok so if I’ve understood you correctly running an alfine with a 32/20 input ratio gives you a range of 69.3 – 21.9 Gear inches (with a 26” wheel) so quite a spinney range then…
I like the idea of an Alfine Hub but I think I’ll take the cheap option (for now) and just change my 2x8 setup… I’m sure they’ll up it’s range eventually…