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Interesting thread and link to article from the next valley. http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?22622-Ilkley-Moor-MTB-ing/page3. seems there are more than a few nobs in the area with little regard for other users, I have encountered full on strava segment basters on footpaths on sunny Sundays when the moor is teeming. I use the same trails, but not at that time of the day or week.
Just wait until they are all on ebikes
That was my thought. They'll be longing for the halcyon days of gangs of bikers on mere push-bikes. 🙂Just wait until they are all on ebikes
I can't think these people are worth engaging with since their view is not up for being changed and their viewpoint is clearly set in stone.
from memory, and someone will correct me I'm sure, but wasn't some funding they were applying for dependent on the park being open access for everyone, not just those with a dobbin and a range rover? It is a shame that the trail building has come to a (enforced) halt since it would have benefited the area. With their viewpoint and facts being clearly not up for debate, I would save yourself the hassle and just walk away. Keep riding through the area and batter them with polite kindness.
Times and speeds are then logged on internet sites and I saw one where someone had clocked 32mph going down Blind Lane.Those times are posted as challenges for others to beat
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it. This is the second time in a fortnight that I've seen a "friends of" group using it to try and justify retrictions on MTBing. The previous one even had instructions on how to use it to "gather evidence".
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it
This. It not only shows how much riders are using certain areas (inc footpaths) but I also shows they are seeking to "race" / beat the clock
I think 'an historic' is correct, same as 'an hotel'
I also shows they are seeking to "race" / beat the clock
Not necessarily. Lots of people just run it to track rides or compare fitness. It's not particularly accurate either, unless you're using a proper GPS unit. And playing devil's advocate, it's not evidence that dangerous cycling took place.
None of which makes a difference of course. OMG CYCLISTS GOING AT THE SPEED OF MY CAR.
Are those people related to the New Forest Commoners?
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it. This is the second time in a fortnight that I've seen a "friends of" group using it to try and justify retrictions on MTBing. The previous one even had instructions on how to use it to "gather evidence".
It Has the potential to be - unless we learn how to play it, because high levels of recorded use with little or no recorded conflict could rapidly hoist them on their own petard. "You're pointing out one incident out of X thousand recorded rides, and that's just from a small percentage of the enthusiasts" and "look, we can prove that your concerns are unfounded as there are X hundred cyclists already riding it without any recorded complaints"
I think 'an historic' is correct, same as 'an hotel'
An hotel? Are you a lunatic?
One can only assume the journalist is a cockney who is dropping their "haitches".
'An historic' is correct. Sorry sbob.
It Has the potential to be - unless we learn how to play it
Sadly I think that's the only option left, given how Strava and the MTB community have declined to restrict its use on RoWs. At least using it to organise mate's races seems to have died a death.
Cllr Cook has hit on the nub of it - "The view of the general public is that some mountain bikers have got [b]far too big for their boots[/b]..." That's what's really winding them up. We all need to get smaller feet or something.
We all need to get smaller feet or something.
Mint Imperial to the thread, please...
No, he's an healthy, normal guyAn hotel? Are you a lunatic?
Edit: BTW I don't condone the use of "an historic". The h is pronounced and breathy. It might sound correct in certain accents, in which case it can be said 'an' and could be written in a quotation.
e.g. "It's an historic occasion innit!" said the American actor, trying out his English accent.
SOGGY bread uneaten by ducks is carpeting the bottom of an important pond at the St Ives estate near Bingley and threatening its natural balance.
Can I just say this isn't me 😳 if my 5 yr old throws bread in and the ducks don't eat it, I make he jump in and scoop it out. Yes even yesterday when there was a layer of thin ice 😈
All things considered, unfortunately if we do need to listen to these people, whether its feeding ducks or about riding bikes, they will influence, and kids will end up crying because they cant feed the ducks.
'An historic' is correct.
The Guardian uses 'a historic'...
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a ]http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a[/url]
[i][b]a or an before H?[/b]
Use an before a silent H: an heir, an hour, an honest politician, an honorary consul; use a before an aspirated H: a hero, a hotel, a historian (but don't change a direct quote if the speaker says, for example, "an historic"). With abbreviations, be guided by pronunciation: eg an LSE student[/i]
Get someone on the committee
Come on then, own up you agressive park terrorists
I think the OP rides up there quite a bit 🙄
I do think Strava has a lot to answer for though....it makes normally quite sane riders into crazy speed/time obsessed individuals who will do ANYTHING to beat their previous times and those of their mates.
and thats just me! 😳
There's been some (not very well done) research. As long as your mtber isn't developing 20+ kw. Or skidding like a 10 year old kid. Horses do more damage. IIRC, the worse the trail conditions, the more impact the horse has
A horse does perhaps chew up the ground significantly more BUT
The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
if my 5 yr old throws bread in and the ducks don't eat it, I make he jump in and scoop it out.
Shredded cabbage is much more healthy for the ducks...
There's a mental bitch who leaves bread out for the horses on Greenham Common :/
The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
Got any evidence for this? If not, I'll file it under "recycled gibberish that TJ used to spout".
An Historic
You've a chap called Charles Macklin to thank....Long story short, he was an Irish actor who realised that he could make money from teaching voice coaching to the recently wealthy country bumpkins so that they could ingratiate themselves into polite society in the mid to late 1800's. it was him that decided that the 'L' shouldn't be pronounced in Should, Could etc and that the 'H' should be dropped from Historic, and Hunting (and the for that matter the 'G' at then end of -ing words...) which gave rise to the problem of the pronoun 'a' or 'an' depending on vowel/consonant starting letter, hence to our ears the anachronistic
"An historic"...because you; Shud be sayin' 'istoric. To be polite...
Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time? I'd suggest he takes up another profession... maybe get a job delivering campaign mail for his local MP or something.
To be fair, it's not like the rest of the country's press are setting a better example.Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time? I'd suggest he takes up another profession... maybe get a job delivering campaign mail for his local MP or something.
glasgowdan - Member
Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time?
You could be right, give it a go!
A warning poster or two will certainly put the wind up the would-be horse-rammers among us. That must be administrator shorthand for 'we can do f-all about it'.
I've always found the horseriders polite and friendly when I'm up that way, although I'm still half expecting the 'Neidermeyer's horse' moment when I pass them up by the golf course.
Story also on page 9 of today's Telegraph & Argus. They've changed the title to [b]Mountain bikers "abuse vistors"[/b] in big bold type.
Waiting to see which T&A 'big hitter' writes about bad cyclists to the 'Letters & Web-posts' page in tomorrow's issue.
Best thing would be for local mountain bikers to set up a group and also call themselves the friends of st ives. And then start issuing press releases about abusive ramblers and horse riders, also highlight the damage those two groups create tramping about the place.
nah, it is another factor in soil erosion, just don't think anyones been organised enough to do any proper tests.The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
Got any evidence for this? If not, I'll file it under "recycled gibberish that TJ used to spout".
"We also have a major problem with gangs of up to 30 going up in the dark and using headlamps to tear all over the estate doing a lot of damage when no-one's about to stop them.
If they're a major problem it shouldn't be too hard for Chris Tate to find one of these gangs and speak to them, or evidence of the damage they are causing. But that would involve doing some work.
I use the area fairly regularly, so this news is unwelcome.
If it's true (and I'm not saying it is) that a group of MTB riders have verbally abused another visitor to St Ives Estate, then that is indeed a shame. Irrespective of the provocation, it's best to remain calm and always be polite and reasonable.
Looking at the posts above, is there (or was there) a MTB group liaising with 'The Friends of St Ives'?
Realisticaly, If the reporter belives it plausible that Mountain bikers would 'ram' horses, then it is also entirely plausible that walkers would be able to 'ram' cyclists, it's ludicrous.. I wonder if they'd publish that if someone reported it?
I can see the headlines now, defenceless cyclist hit by speeding walker.
I mean really, the only thing a cyclist could expect to achive from ramming a horse is a buckled wheel and a bit of a trampling, so probably a broken spine and a fractured skull to boot.
nah, it is another factor in soil erosion, just don't think anyones been organised enough to do any proper tests.
Ironically, the St Ives estate is home to the Sports Turf Research insitute. Seems a shame not to use the number of cyclists passing through for more grass info gathering- http://www.stri.co.uk/
[img]Realisticaly, If the reporter belives it plausible that Mountain bikers would 'ram' horses, then it is also entirely plausible that walkers would be able to 'ram' cyclists, it's ludicrous.
[/img]
Pook - Member'An historic' is correct. Sorry sbob.
Poppycock.
It's only correct if you mispronounce "historic".
Looking at the posts above, is there (or was there) a MTB group liaising with 'The Friends of St Ives'?
SingletrAction were invited by the council/Airedale partnership to put forward a proposal for bike trails in the estate. It fell thru when fosi threatened to fight it in the local newspapers. I presume The lead councillor with the portfolio for leisure etc decided it wasn't worth the hassle, it came to nothing. They never actually got to the point of doing any liaising as such.
A horse does perhaps chew up the ground significantly more BUTThe Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
having seen the damage inflicted on what were fairly stable bike trails maintained by myself and mates i know which i would rather deal with. horses make a ****ing mess of trails.
Research I've seen (sorry I don't know where, so no links) suggests that the amount of damage done by an individual walker is similar to the amount of damage done by a single biker - the walker has higher ground pressure, yet the biker makes channels which water can run down. Which is worse depends - on average it's pretty similar. Both are utterly dwarfed by the damage done by a single horse. Of course there are also more walkers, so the cumulative damage done by walkers is more than by bikers.
We are 'new' to the trails - compared to walkers and horses anyway. We often have a smile on our faces.
It's easy to see how miserable folk who wander around looking to be offended find us so vexing.
As soon as you accept this, it becomes apparent who has the real problem. Doesn't do anything for the situation on the ground (so to speak), but it does help to put thing in perspective.
Most types of extreme weather has a detrimental effect on the countryside, perhaps they should ban weather from the moor too. Might have more luck than trying to ban cyclists from using bridleways.
'An historic' is correct. Sorry sbob.
Poppycock.
It's only correct if you mispronounce "historic".
They're both correct. As with rather a lot of linguistic nuances, it's a stylistic matter, not one of correctness. Which, to borrow Stephen Fry's ironic deconstruction of your retort, is actually [i]tough[/i] shit for the dogmatists 😉
Research I've seen (sorry I don't know where, so no links) suggests that the amount of damage done by an individual walker is similar to the amount of damage done by a single biker
Yep. And the mechanisms by which erosion occurs usually have far more to do with the siting and gradient of the trail than its users.
[url= https://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/environmental-impacts-mountain-biking-science-review-and-best-practices ]https://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/environmental-impacts-mountain-biking-science-review-and-best-practices[/url]