[Closed] After ordering in June 2015... Shockwiz content

Interested to see what the results are, I am probably going to buy some myself.

I was very tempted by this but got the sussmybike instead... Very interested in how you get on with it.

Interested to see what the results are

I'd be gutted if the results were that I was already setup 100% no changes required!

over-promise and under-deliver. it should be the kickstart motto.

i did look at them but then realised I'm actually really unfussy about my suspension setup.

Really interested to hear about this and the podge's sussmyride too. If I had splashed the cash I think I'd have gone sussmyride just because interpreting pressure change using the shockwizz system sounds more difficult than the position indicator sussmyride are using. In both cases the hardware looks relatively simple but the software needs to be right

The reason I went for the sussmybike is I was expecting to run a coil shock and the list of exclusions on the shockwiz is quite high even for air suspension.

I'm quite happy with my fork setup but no matter what I try I cant get the rear to feel anywhere near as good, figured that this would probably end up being cheaper than a constant swap of frames in search of the perfect one.

Would like a go with them and thought about it when they were first announced. Thinking my group of riding buddies might want to buy a set amongst us all (6 regular riders) as it seems to be the sort of thing you'd use a few times a year not every day.

Tom - did you get hit with customs / VAT?

3 of us have clubbed together are are waiting for ours to arrive.

Nope, the invoice says they are $0

Hey Rubber Buccaneer,

ShockWiz looks at changes in pressure over time to map suspension movement and uses this information to to output very easy to understand recommendations. The amount of people that could constructively use the raw data is very low which is why it is hidden from the user. You install it, calibrate it, go ride, and then check the App to see how things look. The app recommends changes to your setup with very direct instruction such as; Add Air or Remove Air to adjust the air-spring pressure, Make Softer or Make Firmer for LSC and HSC, Speed Up or Slow Down for rebound, etc. An expert or a beginner should have no problem making use of the data.

Alex@Quarq

Hey Leku,

Sounds like you may also be a backer, if not I figured I should still throw this in. Whether or not you get hit with customs or VAT depends where you live. The invoice that our system sends directly to the recipient does show a value of $0.00, because we are not actually charging the recipient when we enter the order. We are however legally required to include a commercial invoice with all international shipments. The commercial invoice must list a number of things, including an accurate device value. The value listed on the commercial invoice is $239.00 USD per ShockWiz unit, twice that if you ordered a pair. The recipient is then responsible for paying any and all duties and taxes.

Alex@Quarq

Hi Tom could I borrow it for the afternoon?

Hope it goes well please report back as I'm interested in these!

Mama said say nothing if you've nothing nice to say... Fools! (Sang sweetly in a gospel choir stylee as to not offend).

Alex@Quarq, I like the idea, just waiting to see who does the best job of turning all that data into good advice for the user. It is almost a certainty that I will buy one of these systems when their availability and me having some money burning a hole in my pocket coincide

Currently ill with the flu so read the user manual for this and i'm intrigued by this whole thing. It looks very impressive on the surface but lets say i fit it to my bike and ride down a trail. The info is gathered and the app suggests i make some adjustments.

Air pressure - add or remove some air
**Air spring ramp - remove or add spacers (tokens?)
Rebound - speed up or slow down
*HSC - softer or firmer
*LSC - softer or firmer
**Bottom out - add or remove resistance

All seems pretty straightforward on paper. However the ** requires proper tuning that's not that easy to do trailside or in the case of one of my set of forks the option * to adjust HSC/LSC or even +/- tokens isn't possible. So that's me goosed.

Someone with fancy Pikes (i have those too) might go home and add some tokens ready for the next 'test'. But it's rained heavily since the last one and the rider is going much slower. The suggested improvements don't seem to work and the new readings suggest making further alterations. An exercise in tail chasing ensues.

That's only one scenario - i can think of loads that sink this hi tech ship. I may be being overly negative but suspension is about feel (and compromise - no suspension works optimally everywhere), as feel gives confidence and that brings speed. An experienced rider should really know how they like the bike to behave and a novice probably has little use for this type of device. A shop could use it as a gimmick (like bike fit) to hook punters but unless this type of tech is linked to active suspension then it's just a gimmick. Like a balance band with a battery and a more impressive user manual. 😛

Happy to have my concerns addressed/bedunked by Alex since he's here.

I know when my suspension is working well, however I often don't know exactly what to change to hit that sweet spot from a new fork / shock out of the box. So it ends up being a lot of experimentation that could be shortcut with one of these. I really like the idea.

You can certainly fit a RS token trail side or back that trail head / by your car if you don't want to carry the tools.

Ours has now arrived. No VAT or other charges payable.
Hoping to have a play with it tomorrow.

So i have to buy a car as well as new forks? Could get expensive this 😀

Obviously joking and i get what you're saying for a brand new suspension unit. There is a bit of fiddling required but for me i a few clicks slower than middle for rebound is ballpark and usually only needs a click either way to be spot on (for feel). HSC/LSC i just go with what tuners suggest as i don't even notice it tbh (which is why i prefer basic forks over fancy ones). I also like my suspension firm so so does the app take that into account? It might tell me to back everything off, which my be optimal but not suited to how i like it.

Euro from memory of the original kickstarter vid you don't just ride down one trail and optimise for that trail surface and conditions
You ride your normal route which will cover different surfaces and conditions
The system looks at the overall shock / fork performance and recommends what could be improved in general
Obvioulsy if you only ride smooth trails and then ride go for a ride in a rock fest it ain't going to work

Euro - sounds like you know how you like your suspension set up, so a device to help you set up your suspension probably isn't for you?

Just a thought.

Si

Yeah James, but some trails have smooth bits [i]and [/i]rock fests. Some have slow smooth bits and fast smooth bits - slow rock bits and fast rock bits. Slow drops and fast drops. Little jumps and big jumps. There's just too much going on imo for it to be of any real use to trail riding as it currently stands.

DH racing it may be slightly different as you are riding the same trail over the course of a weekend and can make adjustments after each run (and check the times to see if it actually helped).

Be interested to hear from the guys who have it to see what they think, or better yet, an independent review.

Euro, wouldn't you be interested to give it a go? Stick it on your bike and see if it suggested a change? Try the changes and test what they felt like? I would. Nothing like this is the be all and end all since personal preference and the confidence having things the way you like them gives can trump what should technically be an improvement. Bit like choosing tyres in that respect

I would RB, if i though it would help and if i could rent one for say...£20.

The more i look at it the more questions i have though. Take my Xfusion rear shock. It's pretty basic but i like it. It does have 4 LSC settings which work pretty good. Which setting do i use when setting it up with this device? User manual didn't broach this that i could see. Fully open? Mostly closed? Somewhere in the middle? I currently have it set as best i can get it. It's a compromise of course but when fully open in rough stuff i blow the little rubber ring off the back on some bits of trail. Only solutions are add more air which will mess with how it works in the other settings that i'm happy with or send it off to a tuners which costs money. You can probably guess i don't like spending money if i can help it.

If Alex is reading this, send me one to test and if it works you can use me in your advertising bumf as the sceptic turned advocate 😀

If I could rent one for £20 I'd do it in a flash! I'm very sceptical that the data can be translated into sound advice for riders of all shapes and sizes on bikes and terrain of all types and even more so for a rear shock with endless different linkages but.....it's all just numbers, it could be done, maybe?

These devices could be excellent or could be a massive disappointment with endless software updates and a premature death. I don't know which it will be but I'm curious

I'm very sceptical that the data can be translated into sound advice for riders of all shapes and sizes on bikes and terrain of all types and even more so for a rear shock with endless different linkages but.....it's all just numbers, it could be done, maybe?

I dont think it claims to give the ultimate tune, but give you better tuning.

I dont know how it works but I guess it must look at the data as a whole rather than an individual hit. That way it can identify that over successive quick impacts it was getting stuck too far into the travel (rebound too slow) or sitting to far into travel all the time (needs more air). While you might be able to discern this yourself there could be some extra tweaks you could make that you cant 'see' because you are too busy getting bucked about or dealing with line choice in a really bad section.

I guess it might be interesting to see if you could use it to get different settings for different stages in an enduro. Depends how much of the data it uses/needs to give an analysis though, if that worksyou could probably get it to give a good tune for car-park demos LOL!

Ours just arrived for the shop, we backed them out of curiosity and for something nice to play with.

One is coming home with me for 'testing', but the other is available to rent from us at Pedals in Edinburgh.

£50 for a weekend, or if you buy a bike/frame we might just let you borrow it for the setup free of charge, if you are nice.

Can't wait to see what it makes of my 120mm 3" tyred hardtail

Hello Euro,

Debunk I will!

You are correct. For most, adjusting spring ramp (increasing or decreasing air volume) wouldn't fall into a 'normal' trail-side task. However, just because you can't do it quickly while sitting trail-side doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I am going to make the very safe assumption that you work on your bike more off the trail than on, so that's not much of an argument. The device is designed to give you feedback that you can act on right then and there, or once you get home. If it requires tools you don't have with you, just do it later.

If your fork doesn't allow for tokens, then you can typically manipulate air volume by adding or removing oil to the positive air spring chamber. Certainly check with the manufacturer before you go doing this (doing this is friendlier to some air spring designs than others) but it accomplishes the same thing as a token, and people have been doing it for years.

If your fork doesn't have external LSC and HSC adjustments, that doesn't mean they cannot be changed. It does mean that it's harder, but it can still be done. This can all be addressed by manipulating the shim stack and oil weights within the damper. If this is above your ability, which for most it is, you can always employ the help of a professional. The point is ShockWiz provides you with the data to back whatever the change may be, which actually makes spending money on a professional that much more comforting. Or you can do as many will, and ignore the recommendations for adjustments you don't have knobs for. There is no harm in focusing on the adjustment you can easily change. In the end any adjustment in the right direction is going to help.

Changing conditions, along with loads of other things, will change the way you ride and the way your suspension should be set up. Conditions, terrain, skill level, etc; all play a roll. You need to remember though, that this exists whether you use ShockWiz or not. The fact that ShockWiz recommendations do change based on these factors only supports its effectiveness.

No matter how you set up suspension and no matter what tools or methods you use, there will always be a feel component. The problem is that feel is just that, feel. It's a person’s perception. There are some folks out there who can do this, but for every 1 that can, there are 10 that cannot. Companies wouldn't invest the amount of money that they do in education and the supporting material that go along with it, if this were not the case.

The adjustments on suspension products today all have a very wide range. This wide range exists because a single product has to work for a large variety of terrain, riding styles and ability levels, rider weight, etc. An unfortunate byproduct of this is that the majority of the available range is useless to any one person. You might have 15 clicks of whatever adjustment, but you should only ever live in a 3-5 click are of that. Setting it in the middle and going a few clicks up or down from there isn't going to cut it for the large majoirty. The hardest part of tuning for most is finding that sweet spot. It is so easy to end up outside it. ShockWiz works by helping find this, which ShockWiz inventor Nigel Wade affectionately calls the "Window of Happiness". When your suspension is adjusted within this window you have more control, which increases your confidence and allows you to ride faster.

In the end the goal of ShockWiz is to take the complicated, overwhelming subject that is suspension setup and make it easier. It's a device that fits easily to the majority of air sprung forks and shocks and uses live pressure data, sampled at 100x per second, to output easy to understand adjustment recommendations. I can promise you that it is no gimmick and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this type of technology. I would put money on this helping your setup.

If I missed anyone else's questions let me know, but I feel this covers a good bit of what others are asking/commenting.

-Alex@Quarq

Hi Alex

Thanks for addressing some of my comments. I must apologise for applying the word gimmick to the ShockWiz as it's obviously a well thought out and polished product. I'm still not convinced of it's effectiveness in the real world, but as your chips are already damp with my urine, i'll refrain from posting why.

I wish you lads good luck

Cheers

Marty

Just fitted ours to my rear shock ready for tomorrows ride. Fairly straight forward. Shame I won't be able to use it on my front forks as they are dual air.

Will report back tomorrow.

Fitted mine to my fork ok, but I'm not sure I've done the shock right, it's a specialized/fox float with autosag, tried plugging it into the valve where I pump the air into the shock, nothing. plugged it into the red valve (that you use to let the air out to set the sag and it seems to work, though it's showing a red light in the cal status box (fork is green). Alex/quarq, is it calibrated?

Tom you want it in the one where you pump air as the autosag one will not work when the shock is in use as that's in the negative air chamber once the plane stone passes over it.

Doesn't seem to do anything when I plug it into that though, ie if I try and let any air out through the device, it doesn't do anything?

*rolls up sleeves and tries again

Mmkay, tried again.

Readout is fluctuating between -15% and 15% of travel, and 202 and 203 psi, whilst stood still. Still red light on the cal status...

Ideas?

I thought in the instructions it said it wouldn't work with brain shocks

Just back from first ride.

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Set up on starting;

[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5503/29878213484_57519c122e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5503/29878213484_57519c122e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/MweDVN ]ShockWiz[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/ ]100%of thetime60%ofthetime[/url], on Flickr

After ride (it tells you to do some rock garden, drops etc if those are missing from your ride so far)

[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5564/29878213724_70aa962f51_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5564/29878213724_70aa962f51_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/MweDZW ]ShockWiz[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/ ]100%of thetime60%ofthetime[/url], on Flickr

Suggestions;

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5775/29878214264_43d3b309a6_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5775/29878214264_43d3b309a6_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/MweEaf ]ShockWiz[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/ ]100%of thetime60%ofthetime[/url], on Flickr[/img]

I knew the pressure was a bit down. Love seeing the 'real' pressure in stock after you have taken the pump off. As expected you do loss about 10psi. It suggested 200 psi is right for me (which is what I usually ride). 'Add spacers" - mmm I run a big volume Corset so spacers wouldn't make sense with that.
Will play with the big speed compression and bottom out (not elements I would normally know what to do with).

So far quite happy. More use for a new bike than one you've had for 5 years...

One thing I didn't like is that you can't save the recommendations at the end of a ride. You have to do screen shots. Needs a 'save this ride' button.

Quarktech

Will this work on my DH 5 coil as it has the boost valve with schraeder valve for adjusting pressure?

Quarktech

Will this work on my DH 5 coil as it has the boost valve with schraeder valve for adjusting pressure?

So basically, you bolt that on, and it tells you everything you knew already?

For any given ride, just look at the O ring around the shock/fork piston, achieves exactly the same thing, costs way less....... 😉

I guess if you are a complete numpty, then it could help you get in the ball park faster for a new bike, but if you are that much of a numpty, then i bet you also aren't a good enough rider to actually notice or exploit any improvements?

Max - I think there is a middle ground. I can sort sag and have a vague understanding of the other elements. It's nice to have a bit of kit which can make some suggestions based on the riding I actually do.
The fact that it got the recommended shock pressure spot on makes me think its a good bit of kit.

So basically, you bolt that on, and it tells you everything you knew already?

Yes, it's a nice gimmicky thing that let's you pretend to be a suspension specialist for your very own race team.

I think Strava/power meters/Shockwiz etc. are the best bits about cycling for some people.

Mines sat in a van somewhere got a 90squid import bill to settle first 🙂

It took 10 minutes last night to set up. It really didn't affect the distance or type of ride I was going to do.

Personally more time spent riding on a reasonably set up bike will make loads more difference to my skill/performance level.

Which is sort of the point of the ShockWiz..

Yes, it's a nice gimmicky thing that let's you pretend to be a suspension specialist for your very own race team

This is the bit I took exception to. I accept I'm not that good at setting up bike suspension and this seems a good bit of kit [i]for me[/i].

maxtorque - Member

For any given ride, just look at the O ring around the shock/fork piston, achieves exactly the same thing, costs way less.......

Don't think this is at all true tbh. I can set up suspension without much fuss but nobody does it just by looking at the o-ring unless all they want to achieve is "make it work".

Which to be fair is what a lot of people think setting up suspension means.