[Closed] Advice on road race wheels needed!

DA 9000 C24 user here, cheaper than the equivalent weight Mavics, top quality hubs and consistent/reliable braking surface.

I'm 85kilos and there are no flex issues. Cracking wheelset although perhaps not the most glamorous!

Doesn't your friend know a lot about bikes if he's going road racing?

And out of that lot, probably the D-A.

Guessing you mean the alloy clincher C24 and not the much nicer carbon tubs?

Does he definitely want clinchers?

What sort of racing does he do?

He'd probably be quicker sacrificing a bit of weight for more aero wheels.

Assuming budget is around 500 quid. Could add some of [url= http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/#!powertap/c10at/4d2c8fd5-a839-b4b3-4bba-79dc457903d3 ]Wheelsmith's Race 30[/url] to the list at that sort of price point. Think I'd be looking in the classifieds for a set of carbon deep section tubs though (quick scan of classifieds... maybe something like [url= http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=109021 ]this[/url] though not all carbon and not tubs either!)

Doesn't your friend know a lot about bikes if he's going road racing?

He's a bit new to it all, but very fit and fast. As I'm a 'bit' older than him, he thought he'd ask someone with a bit of experience, but I've never really raced, so i'm not au fait with what the current trends are re road racing. I buy for comfort and longevity, not speed.

"Does he definitely want clinchers?"

Yes. Tubs are out due to price and hassle. He'll be doing local small events, nowhere near the level where tubs are justifiable. And he wants something that he can climb well with, so light weight is a prime consideration. Something like those Wheelsmith wheels are ok, but heavier than what he wants (ca. 1400g).

So; 2 votes for the DA wheels so far.

It does definitely depend on the type of races he's entering... And the type of rider he is. The DAs are a great all-rounder for the money - I train on them and use them for Majorca/Alps trips, and have used them in crits.

Sure, if he was racing crits, I'd say any deeper section wheel he can find in budget, but you'll not get much that's light enough to suit climby races without spending a grand+.

Tubs are out due to price and hassle.

Tubs are cheaper and lighter. And most of the time they aren't much hassle. I've got some 50mm PX carbon tubs, well under 1400g, for sale if interested 🙂

And he wants something that he can climb well with, so light weight is a prime consideration.

It's not really. Unless he's tackling long alpine climbs. I'd worry less about weight (within reason) and go for the best aero wheels in budget. On a 10% grade at 300W, even an extra kilo in weight only costs you about 3 watts. Which you'll more than make up on anything that isn't a steep climb. Look at what the pro's ride in hilly races like the Ardennes classics, they'll all be on aero wheels.

light and aero = carbon

Sure, if he was racing crits, I'd say any deeper section wheel he can find in budget, but you'll not get much that's light enough to suit climby races without spending a grand+.

*cough*

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cosine-55mm-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset/

Wiggle's in-house brand but rims are made by Gigantex who make rims for several far more expensive wheel brands.

Bargain. Go for those. I'd probably go for the 45mm if they were my one set of racing wheels. Fit them with some latex tubes and nice open tubulars and your mate will be flying 🙂

FWIW, I've got some Zipp 404 and some lighter (~300g) alloy non-aero wheels. The Zipp 404 are much quicker everywhere.

I was just about to suggest the 45mm Cosine wheels too. Got a great review on road.cc: http://road.cc/content/review/173352-cosine-45mm-full-carbon-clincher-wheelset

I doubt there's a race in the UK where light weight trumps aero (within reason).

I doubt there's a race in the UK where light weight trumps aero (within reason).

Steep hill climb TT are the only ones I reckon.

Those 45s don't look too bad actually... Assuming you can get those decals off!! 🙂

I got a set of the USE 4.5s from Rutland for similar money, but they only have the tub version left now. Brilliant, but can't quantify that with watts or seconds saved.

Brilliant, but can't quantify that with watts or seconds saved.

This is kind of worth considering, although the science is pretty inexact. According to Specialized, new wheels, a well fitting skin suit, an aero helmet, and shaving your arms and legs all deliver similar savings, with obviously the wheels the most expensive of those. If he is set on buying new wheels anyway, then deep sections make the most sense, but if he just wants to get faster he should think about buying a skin suit and aero helmet first. And he should shave and look at his position because those are (almost) free.

Indeed, and don't forget to have a poo before your race either 😉

If he's going racing, i'd pick the most serviceable because he will crash them at some stage! DA are nice. If he's a 4th cat then I too would suggest aero over weight because the courses tend to be flat!

That said, I raced 10 times up Milland Hill (25%) and deliberately left the aero bike behind.

Indeed, and don't forget to have a poo before your race either

But not if it makes him less aero... Aero is more important than light weight remember! 😉

There is a correlation between rider weight and CdA, so holding on to a poo is still not recommended.

Some interesting views on 'aero' wheels. The lad is after lightweight wheels, and some of those aero wheels are significantly heavier than the ones he's shortlisted. This is his choice, not mine. The wheels will be used for other long rides not just races, so comfort is a consideration. I will mention aero wheels to him, but for the quality he's after, he'd have to significantly up his budget.

He talked about wanting to attack on climbs, so I'm thinking a lighter rim would suit him better. Obviously any choice is a compromise, so probably better to stick with the shortlist rather than confuse/complicate things further.

"If he's going racing, i'd pick the most serviceable because he will crash them at some stage!"

This is my thinking; serviceability is important, especially if you're on a budget. Which is why I'd err towards something from a large manufacturer where there's a greater possibility of spares.

"Tubs are cheaper and lighter"

They may well be lighter, but not cheaper. Not at the higher end. And a lot more hassle. The wheels will be used for other riding, so need to be able to fit different tyres easily. Tubs are out. Let him get some race experience under his belt, before we start him on tubs!

Thanks for the advice and recommendations. The Dura Ace wheels seem to be the most popular here, so perhaps the better option. They'd probably be my choice although the DTs have sealed ceramic bearings. I think the DAs are a bit cheaper generally though.

I'll put a vote in for the Fulcrum Racing Zeros. I been running Racing 1s for the last 5 years for thousands and thousands of kms and they are stiffer than a stiff thing and are still running true having never needed adjustment. Only maintenance needed in that time has been new bearings in the rear last year. I imagine the Racing Zeros will be even better.

It is his choice but it is the wrong one 🙂

Tub rims, like for like, high end or low end, are cheaper and lighter than clinchers. I did go clincher for some recent carbon rims though as I'd get a lot more use out of them and the extra weight makes bugger all difference.

If on a tight budget I'd be tempted to build my own. Ultegra hubs (nothing rolls quite like a Shinano cup and cone) and some 45mm Chinese carbon (you could probably get the rims on those cosine ones direct.) It's pretty easy to do.

I'd have the mavics, stiff light serviceable.
I can't be dealing with cup and cone so the DA's are out for me

I liked the DA wheels, but in the end went for DA hubs and hand built wheels with Mavic rims. Not the absolute lightest, but the ride is phenomenal. All day wheels that I also race on occasion. Superb braking on Dartmoor yesterday, so much nicer than my carbon rims.

A broken spoke is an easy j-bend Sapim.

There are some nice light non aero rims out there. Exalights or Open Pros for example. Nova tech hubs are pretty light too. A sub 1400g clincher set is possible and would be more serviceable. Then pick some light tyres and add latex tubes for the tubular ride quality - it is where tubular tyres get their "feel" from.

And everyone wants to attack on hills, but most courses are pretty flat to be honest.

I can't be dealing with cup and cone so the DA's are out for me

I'm on a one man crusade to spread the word of Shimano's new 'digital adjust' hubs, they are by far and away the easiest hub you could ever hope to work on, two 5mm allen keys and your fingers is all you need to adjust them, no more cone spanners, no more trial and error adjust-tighten-repeat, no more trying to allow for the additional tension of the QR.

Arguably even easier than cartridge bearings to maintain with the added bonus that you don't need to pay for new bearings every year (or however often) and they'll always be in perfect adjustment (my cartridge bearing Hope XCs always felt really draggy at the axle...)

I built my own on FarSports Chinese rims - I got 38mm as I'm not racing and IMO lighter wheels feel better, even if deeper would actually go faster.

I'd do that, either a built wheel set on DT350s, or build yourself.

He will crash and trash them. If he gets Dura Ace rims and spokes will be expensive and possibly hard to get hold of.

As per MrBlobby's comments I'd get tubs, they [i]are[/i] cheaper and lighter.

Another vote for wheelsmith. Call them, tell them about yourself and what you want to ride and they will figure out what you need.

More servicable than a mavic wheel on account of not having proprietary spokes. They can do shimano hubs if you're a cup-and-coner.

Liking the recommendations for Wheelsmith. Much more my kind of thinking re wheels. I've never been a fan of 'factory' wheelsets, having seen how long it can take to get spares, and not being able to replace parts of wheels just a few years old. I think in this case, having easily serviceable wheels which use easily available parts is a big plus for someone starting out and on a budget.

If he's just starting out and on a budget then get him Mussons wheel building book too. It really isn't that difficult and building/fixing wheels is a good thing to be able to do.

Good tip. I'll be able to show him how to build, true and tension basic wheels. That book will be a useful accompaniment.

He seems a bit seduced by 'factory' wheels at the moment. I'm trying to gently steer him towards a more 'sustainable' path. 🙂